Attendance thread

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

It's a real mystery,  RL fans attendance patterns are just different to say football.  What's the equivalent of Saints v Wire in football as far as size and stature of clubs from that part of he country. Blackburn and Bolton perhaps? An FA cup QF live on BBC between them would be near capacity for sure, tickets included in the season ticket or not.

I've said before on here that the individual ticketed games almost always do worse than those included in season tickets. As a sport we have spent a generation moving to the season ticket model, and we see this result all the time.

Even in football, the FA Cup and particularly the league cup as a general rule gets lower crowds than league games. Anecdotally, the makup of attendees at these games seem to be different too with a smaller amount of hardcore but a greater number of people for whom this may be their only game attended that season. This is particularly true at clubs that regularly hit capacity League Attendances and have a 20 year ST waiting list for example. We don't have anything like that sort of scarcity. Further more, by contrast with your Bolton vs Blackburn comparison, a Quarter Final appearance in the Challenge Cup really isn't that rare for most of the top sides - nor is a meeting between them at that level.

In the previous round Leeds vs Wigan, arguably the 2 biggest clubs in the country at the home of the team that regularly tops the average attendance charts, failed to attract a crowd of over 5 figures.

We need to stop this thinking that what is on the pitch is the number 1 determining factor of whether we get a good crowd or not. How we sell it to customers, what buzz we create around it, etc. These are just as if not more important nowadays.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I've said before on here that the individual ticketed games almost always do worse than those included in season tickets. As a sport we have spent a generation moving to the season ticket model, and we see this result all the time.

Even in football, the FA Cup and particularly the league cup as a general rule gets lower crowds than league games. Anecdotally, the makup of attendees at these games seem to be different too with a smaller amount of hardcore but a greater number of people for whom this may be their only game attended that season. This is particularly true at clubs that regularly hit capacity League Attendances and have a 20 year ST waiting list for example. We don't have anything like that sort of scarcity. Further more, by contrast with your Bolton vs Blackburn comparison, a Quarter Final appearance in the Challenge Cup really isn't that rare for most of the top sides - nor is a meeting between them at that level.

In the previous round Leeds vs Wigan, arguably the 2 biggest clubs in the country at the home of the team that regularly tops the average attendance charts, failed to attract a crowd of over 5 figures.

We need to stop this thinking that what is on the pitch is the number 1 determining factor of whether we get a good crowd or not. How we sell it to customers, what buzz we create around it, etc. These are just as if not more important nowadays.

Correct. We demonstrate pretty much the same patterns as football fans do. We just have a much smaller fan base so it looks more stark. 

As a Man City fan the games I go to are the European group games, because a) there are always plenty tickets available, and b) they are usually very cheap. 

Football don't just ignore the challenge. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Dave T

[HawkMan]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Correct. We demonstrate pretty much the same patterns as football fans do. We just have a much smaller fan base so it looks more stark. 

As a Man City fan the games I go to are the European group games, because a) there are always plenty tickets available, and b) they are usually very cheap. 

Football don't just ignore the challenge. 

Now Man City have cracked the CL ( congrats)  and everyone loves the comp ,it might not be so easy to get in next season to see them defend it.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Now Man City have cracked the CL ( congrats)  and everyone loves the comp ,it might not be so easy to get in next season to see them defend it.

Of course demand will always fluctuate, but in reality, these group games will always be the easiest to get tickets for and cheapest games, because your season ticket holders have already spent a bomb on regular games, and in many instances cant/wont add substantial additional costs onto that.

But the point is, that those tickets, are dirt cheap. You could watch City v Sevilla for £22-£47 - even lower if you're a member.

[Gerrumonside ref]

I agree with some of the sentiment around season tickets, but I would caution us as a sport putting all our eggs in that basket when it comes to reaching out to fans.

I have had season tickets in a few sports before (and even done pretty much every home and most away with Saints which was a good experience when younger) - but it’s not always sustainable.

The thing about season tickets is that they are a major time commitment as well a cost commitment - and people value time as well as money.

I still think there has to be a decent focus on making events out of games and thinking about the overall experience to help draw people in who can’t commit to a season ticket.

The whole package is important as well as the understanding that generally most people want a balance of things in their lives. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Gerrumonside ref

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I agree with some of the sentiment around season tickets, but I would caution us as a sport putting all our eggs in that basket when it comes to reaching out to fans.

I have had season tickets in a few sports before (and even done pretty much every home and most away with Saints which was a good experience when younger) - but it’s not always sustainable.

The thing about season tickets is that they are a major time commitment as well a cost commitment - and people value time as well as money.

I still think there has to be a decent focus on making events out of games and thinking about the overall experience to help draw people in who can’t commit to a season ticket.

The whole package is important.

Of course. The season ticket point is purely around sales mechanics. Every RL game should be an event of some sort irrespective of how tickets are sold. 

Even with season tickets we are still looking to shift thousands and thousands of tickets for every game. 

[soulboy]

16 hours ago, Fevrover said:

Remember it well ,lost at Wembley as well to Wire.

I went to Wembley ( still got my silk scarf, rosette and programme ).

Murphy played stand-off and he had Wires revved up. It was rough game and a poor final.

Both kits where great , unlike the shower curtains they wear now .

Think the crowd was around 77 thousand.

I’ve still got the Fev v Hull game 1983 on VHS . A terrific match .

 

 

[Fevrover]

18 minutes ago, soulboy said:

I went to Wembley ( still got my silk scarf, rosette and programme ).

Murphy played stand-off and he had Wires revved up. It was rough game and a poor final.

Both kits where great , unlike the shower curtains they wear now .

Think the crowd was around 77 thousand.

I’ve still got the Fev v Hull game 1983 on VHS . A terrific match .

 

 

Yeah and the ref was Sam Shepherd ###### - even then lol . 

[Sports Prophet]

23 hours ago, JT RL said:

Exactly. No wonder some of the games don’t draw the fans in.

CC done by May .. winner plays in the grand final

League winner .. no play offs .. plays in the final

Less is more

 

I actually don’t mind that idea but if this is the official format, it would really grind me to see a team win a double, but then lose a random Super GF against a team that won neither the league or the Challenge Cup.

The other matter is ticket sales. How many do you hold back for the League winner, keeping in mind the Challenge Cup winners have had four months to purchase tickets? 

[Eddie]

16 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I actually don’t mind that idea but if this is the official format, it would really grind me to see a team win a double, but then lose a random Super GF against a team that won neither the league or the Challenge Cup.

The other matter is ticket sales. How many do you hold back for the League winner, keeping in mind the Challenge Cup winners have had four months to purchase tickets? 

If RL had the problem that one team might snap up all the Old Trafford tickets  before they went on sale to the other, the game would be in a great place. 

[Sports Prophet]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

If RL had the problem that one team might snap up all the Old Trafford tickets  before they went on sale to the other, the game would be in a great place. 

So what percentage of tickets do you think are purchased the week of the GF?

[Eddie]

37 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

So what percentage of tickets do you think are purchased the week of the GF?

At least 50% I reckon (complete guess mind you). But regardless the same people will go if they’re on sale for 4 months or a week. 

[johnh1]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I actually don’t mind that idea but if this is the official format, it would really grind me to see a team win a double, but then lose a random Super GF against a team that won neither the league or the Challenge Cup.

The other matter is ticket sales. How many do you hold back for the League winner, keeping in mind the Challenge Cup winners have had four months to purchase tickets? 

So no top 6 play off? A lot of pointless matches in the last few weeks of the season, then. No thanks.

[JT RL]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I actually don’t mind that idea but if this is the official format, it would really grind me to see a team win a double, but then lose a random Super GF against a team that won neither the league or the Challenge Cup.

The other matter is ticket sales. How many do you hold back for the League winner, keeping in mind the Challenge Cup winners have had four months to purchase tickets? 

This could happen in the current format. The team in 2nd place, beats first place (who had won the cup). I’d be surprised if it’s happened in the past. But ….

[JT RL]

2 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

So no top 6 play off? A lot of pointless matches in the last few weeks of the season, then. No thanks.

Fair play … maybe just wait for the pointless play offs in the last 3 weeks of the season ??

or the pointless loop fixtures mid-season ?

or the questionable Wednesday night games in Feb ?

of course, the 1st Division would have fewer teams

[GUBRATS]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

Of course demand will always fluctuate, but in reality, these group games will always be the easiest to get tickets for and cheapest games, because your season ticket holders have already spent a bomb on regular games, and in many instances cant/wont add substantial additional costs onto that.

But the point is, that those tickets, are dirt cheap. You could watch City v Sevilla for £22-£47 - even lower if you're a member.

They'd need to pay me more than that

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

Of course demand will always fluctuate, but in reality, these group games will always be the easiest to get tickets for and cheapest games, because your season ticket holders have already spent a bomb on regular games, and in many instances cant/wont add substantial additional costs onto that.

But the point is, that those tickets, are dirt cheap. You could watch City v Sevilla for £22-£47 - even lower if you're a member.

Tiny Ginger, who is now somehow 15, got a junior membership at Arsenal for his birthday. (Don't judge me, I'm just glad that I was able to bully him into not being a Chelsea fan years ago). One of its key selling points is that this gets you the chance to be included in ballots for tickets. (Other more serious memberships and schemes actually get you tickets, Arsenal could fill the Emirates twice over even at the prices they charge, it's mad).

Now, the reason for mentioning this is that even the pack makes clear that if you actually want to get a ticket then: "There will also be increased ticket availability next season for FA Cup and European knock-out matches which are no longer included in our General Admission Season Ticket."

[ATLANTISMAN]

Time to move the SL final around different venues 5 years announced in advance and watch it sell out.

 

P

[Sports Prophet]

10 hours ago, johnh1 said:

So no top 6 play off? A lot of pointless matches in the last few weeks of the season, then. No thanks.

Well, the same rule applies in other English sports too. 

I prefer finals personally. I’m not sure I am in the majority of English sports fans.

I don’t think the matches would necessarily be pointless. I think in the last quarter, it gives each team a bit more impetus to win, rather than be satisfied with holding position to make finals. This would place more intensity into matches.

I also think when bottom half teams are playing the top team, a scalp there will also be more meaningful. So while there is a sacrifice to the finals, I think it adds something to the end of the regular season as well.

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Time to move the SL final around different venues 5 years announced in advance and watch it sell out.

 

P

Yeah, could be varied for the CC as well. 

I like the idea of the GF moving around though. Gives a full season to whip up excitement of going to any of OT, Wembley, Millennium, Croke, Murrayfield or even outside the British Isles.

 

[Tommygilf]

9 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Time to move the SL final around different venues 5 years announced in advance and watch it sell out.

 

P

In the past 20 years, only 2 of the fan attended Grand Finals would have required a capacity lower than the top 5 largest stadiums in the UK. Wembley, Twickenham, Old Trafford, Cardiff and Murrayfield. Indeed 10 of them would have been too large for Murrayfield.

Given 2 of those venues are in London and we already use Wembley for the cup final, your suggestion implies that to maintain current crowd numbers, we'd need to use Wembley twice, and also switch between Old Trafford and Cardiff.

Doesn't seem worth it to me?

[ATLANTISMAN]

No i would be far more adventurous 

Barcelona (Espanyol)

Dublin

Cardiff

London (Possible)

Edinburgh 

10000 tickets held back for each finalist everything else on early sale

 

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

No i would be far more adventurous 

Barcelona

Dublin

Cardiff

London (Possible)

10000 tickets held back for each finalists everything else on early sale

So Cardiff and Barcelona, which will be large enough when its rebuilt in 2 years time, or Dublin (too small and no chance of Croke Park).

Seems an awful lot of faff and risk for minimal potential gain - especially if Old Trafford is redeveloped.

I also think other than in the stadiums that are too small, you'll not need to "hold back" 10,000 tickets for each finalist.

[Sports Prophet]

58 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

So Cardiff and Barcelona, which will be large enough when its rebuilt in 2 years time, or Dublin (too small and no chance of Croke Park).

Seems an awful lot of faff and risk for minimal potential gain - especially if Old Trafford is redeveloped.

I also think other than in the stadiums that are too small, you'll not need to "hold back" 10,000 tickets for each finalist.

Why is Croke park a no chance? Precedent has been set there before and Rugby League is very anti establishment. 

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Why is Croke park a no chance? Precedent has been set there before and Rugby League is very anti establishment. 

Why would clubs want themselves and the fans to have to pay for flights and very expensive accommodation to go to the grand final, when there’d be a lower crowd at the game?  

Edited June 20, 2023 by Eddie