Roses series

[Madrileño]

20 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

We'd normally get a bunch of regulars in a central London pub for a televised match.

I watched the last Roses match there in the company of the barman (Warrington lad) who had to be there because of his job and... nobody else.

I left early in the second half, when it was clear that 1.it was going to be a bad one-sided flogging and 2.the players (on both sides) didn't seem very interested. 

Am not surprised. 

Who in their right mind think punters anywhere are going to rush home from work.... or cancel other plans... or organise a night out at the pub....or make any special effort at all... 

 

For a match between 2 completely made up teams representing Yorkshire , and a place they are calling "Lancashire" where none of the millennials running about on the field have ANY affinity with. 

It is beyond bizarre... and reinforces what I have said before about the rugby league fanbase: That a lot of them still seem to live in the 1970s. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Madrileño

[Mumby Magic]

Surprised people still come up with this. Should be England vs France. Any concocted match should get an England trial match at best.

[Futtocks]

7 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Surprised people still come up with this. Should be England vs France. Any concocted match should get an England trial match at best.

Internationals are what get people who aren't already RL fans interested in and talking about the game. It usually generates more column inches (positive ones, anyway) than club games, which can often get zero coverage per week in some national publications and sports news broadcasts.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

Build it up and 5 year approach? We played this fixture for nearly a century. Its not like it hasn't been tried but the interest just isn't there.

Referencing the 19th century to the 1980s? Makes sense ....the revival wasn't don't properly 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Possible v probables would work better for me get the England coach to pick a squad. 

I've heard this before and I know it has history but it is the least excited one for me ...it would be paying to watch an opposed training session 

Do a proper build up of a real rivalry (make one up with marketing if needed)

[JonM]

46 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

It is beyond bizarre... and reinforces what I have said before about the rugby league fanbase: That a lot of them still seem to live in the 1970s. 

Except that even in the 1970s this fixture could get crowds of under 3000. Why is it suddenly going to be popular 50 years later?

[lucky 7]

6 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

The last game was 20 years ago.  The RL landscape has now changed.

The vote taken to support IMG’s ‘Reimagining the Game’ MAY be a catalyst to commit to a long term approach at some point to grow a rep game series.

Or the alternative is to just play France once per year (I am referring to games during the SL season and not to any international window at the end of the season).

 

 

Play in France in France

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Referencing the 19th century to the 1980s? Makes sense ....the revival wasn't don't properly 

https://yorkshireccc.com/news/yorkshire-vikings-versus-lancashire-lightning-sold-out/

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

15 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Play in France in France

So good you said it twice you said it twice 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

Except that even in the 1970s this fixture could get crowds of under 3000. Why is it suddenly going to be popular 50 years later?

In the late 1970s NSW clubs were refusing to take Australian Origin seriously and not releasing players .....in 1980 they had a crowd less than 2000 

It takes time, marketing and money but it can be done....and look at Aussie Origin now 

[lucky 7]

10 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

So good you said it twice you said it twice 

I'm not wrong though.

[lucky 7]

10 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

In the late 1970s NSW clubs were refusing to take Australian Origin seriously and not releasing players .....in 1980 they had a crowd less than 2000 

It takes time, marketing and money but it can be done....and look at Aussie Origin now 

Less than 2000 LOL

Just over 33,000 at Lang park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_State_of_Origin_game

[Futtocks]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I've heard this before and I know it has history but it is the least excited one for me ...it would be paying to watch an opposed training session 

Do a proper build up of a real rivalry (make one up with marketing if needed)

I know it was done in the past and I don't know why it was stopped. However, there was at least something at stake involved, especially for possibles who want to take a cap from an established star.

Just as importantly, it was a build-up to a real test match/tour/tournament. Without that aspect, it really is just an opposed training session.

[Futtocks]

3 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Less than 2000 LOL

Just over 33,000 at Lang park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_State_of_Origin_game

Worth mentioning that the Aussie media was almost totally dismissive (and quite vehemently so) about the Origin "gimmick" before the first match was played.

Unlike some journalists we could all mention, they were quite happy to change their tune when it turned out to be a great idea after all.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Futtocks

[Tippytoe]

8 hours ago, Jughead said:

Whoever mentions the Roses concept as a genuine idea should have to kit up and run a ball in against Tommy Leuluai. 

Who's Tommy Leuluai.

[Dunbar]

The only replica Rugby League shirt I have ever owned is the Lancashire one from circa 1991/92.

If we used a Lancashire vs. Yorkshire match or series as part of the England selection criteria... as a quasi trial match then I think it would get some interest. 

There is certainly a depth of talent to make it a competitive game.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

54 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Less than 2000 LOL

Just over 33,000 at Lang park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_State_of_Origin_game

Nice try pal but the link 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_State_of_Origin_game

Has....

"the second game at Leichhardt Oval in Sydney (described by Qld Halfback Wally Lewis as being played on a Tuesday night in front of two men and their dog, with the dog going home at half-time. The official paid attendance was just 1,368"

Last time I checked 1368 was less than 2000

Edited April 23, 2023 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Mumby Magic]

3 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Internationals are what get people who aren't already RL fans interested in and talking about the game. It usually generates more column inches (positive ones, anyway) than club games, which can often get zero coverage per week in some national publications and sports news broadcasts.

I agree

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

Worth mentioning that the Aussie media was almost totally dismissive (and quite vehemently so) about the Origin "gimmick" before the first match was played.

That's my point 

Most boxing matches are b***** and gimmicks but the build up makes it 

[Tippytoe]

3 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Am not surprised. 

Who in their right mind think punters anywhere are going to rush home from work.... or cancel other plans... or organise a night out at the pub....or make any special effort at all... 

 

For a match between 2 completely made up teams representing Yorkshire , and a place they are calling "Lancashire" where none of the millennials running about on the field have ANY affinity with. 

It is beyond bizarre... and reinforces what I have said before about the rugby league fanbase: That a lot of them still seem to live in the 1970s. 

I think your the one living in the 70s and you've been smoking from a peace pipe dude!

[EagleEyePie]

I don't think the issue of players 'having an affinity with' the fixture is necessarily a decisive issue. I have no affinity with either NSW or Queensland but I love Origin because of the quality of the games. There are players with no real link to either state that would love the opportunity to play in Origin. There are people who avidly support one side or the other without having any real link. Not being an Aussie I'd love to know what the rivalry between Queensland and NSW is really like. Is there really such a huge rivalry between people who live in the two states? More so than rivalries between any other neighbour states or counties around the world? For me it's the quality of the game that is the selling point.

I always enjoy the Origin game at academy level but surely it should be a terrible game because all of the Lancashire players are under 19 and are too young to have any affinity with Lancashire? The reality is the players relish the challenge and take on the rivalry.

For me the issue is we will never build up a Lancashire-Yorkshire fixture to anything like a competitive fixture for the same reason the Exiles game never really took off, and the same reason the fixture against France will probably see several players dropping out of the squad at short notice. The club game is king in this country and the clubs don't want to see their players get injured mid-season. I think it's also fair to say that there are players with that mentality too, that would be happy to miss out on an England game and have a bit of a break and be fresh for the next few Super League games. There's not enough prestige in the international game and so creating a new fixture as a 'proving ground' isn't going to have prestige either. So you could come up with the Origin fixture again but players will drop out of the squad just like the Exiles game and the game will be missing the stars that would be required to make it a competitive and worthwhile fixture.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I think it's a great idea, at least W.O.R should be played played by players from the Betfred Championship/League1  clubs. And squeeze in Cumbria. At least lower league players can represent. 

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

The only replica Rugby League shirt I have ever owned is the Lancashire one from circa 1991/92.

If we used a Lancashire vs. Yorkshire match or series as part of the England selection criteria... as a quasi trial match then I think it would get some interest. 

There is certainly a depth of talent to make it a competitive game.

And no relevance to large swathes of the country and even less relevance to broadcasters, sponsors and hospitality. Unless, the Wetherby Whaler are having a good month at selling suppers, they might offer £50 to sponsor it. 

[Jughead]

33 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

I don't think the issue of players 'having an affinity with' the fixture is necessarily a decisive issue. I have no affinity with either NSW or Queensland but I love Origin because of the quality of the games. There are players with no real link to either state that would love the opportunity to play in Origin. There are people who avidly support one side or the other without having any real link. Not being an Aussie I'd love to know what the rivalry between Queensland and NSW is really like. Is there really such a huge rivalry between people who live in the two states? More so than rivalries between any other neighbour states or counties around the world? For me it's the quality of the game that is the selling point.

I always enjoy the Origin game at academy level but surely it should be a terrible game because all of the Lancashire players are under 19 and are too young to have any affinity with Lancashire? The reality is the players relish the challenge and take on the rivalry.

For me the issue is we will never build up a Lancashire-Yorkshire fixture to anything like a competitive fixture for the same reason the Exiles game never really took off, and the same reason the fixture against France will probably see several players dropping out of the squad at short notice. The club game is king in this country and the clubs don't want to see their players get injured mid-season. I think it's also fair to say that there are players with that mentality too, that would be happy to miss out on an England game and have a bit of a break and be fresh for the next few Super League games. There's not enough prestige in the international game and so creating a new fixture as a 'proving ground' isn't going to have prestige either. So you could come up with the Origin fixture again but players will drop out of the squad just like the Exiles game and the game will be missing the stars that would be required to make it a competitive and worthwhile fixture.

Origin helps that the two states have rugby league teams in them, whereas Lancashire has zero. That probably helps too. 

[Futtocks]

57 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Origin helps that the two states have rugby league teams in them, whereas Lancashire has zero. That probably helps too. 

It was also born out of the growing resentment North of the border that, in the interstate matches before Origin was thought up, New South Wales were using Queensland's star players to regularly humiliate Queensland.