Catalans culture

[Damien]

Firstly I always think the bye round with James Graham is always a great watch and you get some great insights from players.

In this episode Justin Horo talks about his time at Catalans from about 6 minutes in. While simply confirming what many of us have long thought was the case it's still very revealing when an ex-player talks about the poor culture at Catalans, led by their Australian imports who seem to treat it as one big holiday. Quite why Guash has never learned his lesson when it comes to these imports I'll never know. What Horo says does certainly explain why they are so erratic:

 

[Jughead]

Horo has/had his own podcast and one of the guests was Willie Mason. Mason went in detail of his arrival at the club. He made demands to Laurent Fraysinnous and said words to the effect of “I can either be your best mate or worst enemy”. Fraysinnous didn’t give Mason the power he wanted and essentially lead a revolt and become an 18-30’s rep for the period he was at Catalans. Both seemed to revel in it and found it hilarious to discuss and didn’t come across that well. 

[Agbrigg]

Its not only at Catalans, I am sure there are plenty of other clubs who have had overseas players that are in perpetual holiday mode

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Its not only at Catalans, I am sure there are plenty of other clubs who have had overseas players that are in perpetual holiday mode

Indeed and it's a great point, one that crossed my mind too when I started this thread. For me it's one of the things that contributes to the lower intensity we see in SL compared to the NRL. I don't think you get away with coasting as much in the NRL and have much more chance of losing your place and/or being shown the door. I know some English players are guilty of this too.

[Futtocks]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

Indeed and it's a great point, one that crossed my mind too when I started this thread. For me it's one of the things that contributes to the lower intensity we see in SL compared to the NRL. I don't think you get away with coasting as much in the NRL and have much more chance of losing your place and/or being shown the door. I know some English players are guilty of this too.

It's also why signing Aussies with something to prove is almost always better than signing a big name with a glittering career behind him.

Or a daft overgrown kid like Mason.

[ELBOWSEYE]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

Indeed and it's a great point, one that crossed my mind too when I started this thread. For me it's one of the things that contributes to the lower intensity we see in SL compared to the NRL. I don't think you get away with coasting as much in the NRL and have much more chance of losing your place and/or being shown the door. I know some English players are guilty of this too.

I don't know after seeing some of the NRL recent results it makes a mockery of every games are competitive, there are bigger scores than in SL, and the gap between the top sides and bottom sides has never been bigger.

[Whippet13]

Horo left Catalans 6 years ago, I don't think that culture has existed there for a number of years. It might exist at other clubs in SL but the Dragons are a pretty focused group, thanks to McNamara and certain English players they signed.

[Jughead]

29 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

It's also why signing Aussies with something to prove is almost always better than signing a big name with a glittering career behind him.

Or a daft overgrown kid like Mason.

I don’t think that’s true in the slightest. There’s plenty of high profile examples of players who have had good NRL careers and have contributed to Super League. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Mason Taylor Carney were all a bunch of ******** that could not be controlled and totally ruined the club.

That was then now is a different story its a very well run and disciplined club

 

P

[WN83]

I think they’ve worked really hard on that score and have signed better characters in recent years (in the main). Getting Sam Tomkins and Micky McIlorum on board felt as much to do with them wanting leaders will who set standards, as much as it was because they wanted a couple of good players. 

[barnyia]

This was the reason Alex Chan became manager I believe. 

[Anita Bath]

2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Mason Taylor Carney were all a bunch of ******** that could not be controlled and totally ruined the club.

That was then now is a different story its a very well run and disciplined club

 

P

Yes but all those players listed exhibited their character traits before they headed to europe…in the words of the great Tina Turner, what you see is what you get.

[Mr Frisky]

3 hours ago, Damien said:

Indeed and it's a great point, one that crossed my mind too when I started this thread. For me it's one of the things that contributes to the lower intensity we see in SL compared to the NRL. I don't think you get away with coasting as much in the NRL and have much more chance of losing your place and/or being shown the door. I know some English players are guilty of this too.

It seems Penrith were the ones thinking they could coast against a SL team in this years WCC, but Saints who are a top top team treated them match as the professionals that they are - so Its unkind to slate SL teams when NRL teams and players can be as bad as some SL teams and players.

Penrith were supposed to be the best NRL team for 20 years and Saints are the best SL team for 20 years but Penrith  let themselves down with their attitude to the match and the trophy - maybe that culture is the reason why they have never won the WCC.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

I think they’ve worked really hard on that score and have signed better characters in recent years (in the main). Getting Sam Tomkins and Micky McIlorum on board felt as much to do with them wanting leaders will who set standards, as much as it was because they wanted a couple of good players. 

 

59 minutes ago, barnyia said:

This was the reason Alex Chan became manager I believe. 

I agree with you, WN83.  And of course, even a few years ago, there were some good, conscientious, hard-working southern hemisphere imports; Steve Menzies was a notable one and Scott Dureau another.  The other point about the likes of Tomkins and McIllorum is that they have bought into the French lifestyle and I have heard both speak in French (as, I believe, did Dureau)

This quote from Tomkins, in a Sky Sports interview, demonstrates that buy-in to the local lifestyle and culture by Tomkins, who no doubt sees the merits of this to his children, who will grow up being comfortably bilingual:

"I have grown to love this club over the last four and a half years.

As the months and years have gone by, this is home for us now. We are very settled, my children are settled in school speaking French.

They have got a French life. When I moved to France I had two boys who were one and two, now I have got four kids going from seven down to one and they are very French so this is home for us now."

Thanks, barnyia, for confirming what I always thought was the case.  Given WN83's opening comment, with which I agree, it could be said that Chan, snr, is doing a good job.

[StandOffHalf]

Bit tiresome at this stage to hear Horo (and Mason) bashing a previous set-up at Catalans.

It was interesting to hear their take the first time but they should move on. I think we all get that they didn't/don't rate or get on with Fraysinnous.

[Damien]

8 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

Bit tiresome at this stage to hear Horo (and Mason) bashing a previous set-up at Catalans.

It was interesting to hear their take the first time but they should move on. I think we all get that they didn't/don't rate or get on with Fraysinnous.

The issues Catalans have had over the years with poor imports go far beyond that period and the 4 players Horo talks of. Mason was only there 1 year out of 18. Catalans were always well known as a place players went to for a holiday and a nice retirement payday before these 4. Indeed after the 4 that Hori talks of they signed Greg Bird again despite him being shown the door by Gold Coast due to off field issues. It was only last year they released Dylan Napa, who was a disaster, after again signing a player from the NRL who left there under a cloud. 

As others have said it is only recently they have ditched their heavy reliance on southern hemisphere imports and replaced them with English players that the culture has improved.

[Jughead]

I don’t think we should be too quick to laud Catalans just yet, they still have the ability to find a poor Antipodean, whether that’s purely down to performances or other influences. Dylan Napa may be one of the poorest imports to the competition as a whole for some time and that was just last year that he was at Catalans. Going back a little further Israel Folau and then the players like Carney, Horo, Mason etc. 

[Tre Cool]

10 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I don’t think we should be too quick to laud Catalans just yet, they still have the ability to find a poor Antipodean, whether that’s purely down to performances or other influences. Dylan Napa may be one of the poorest imports to the competition as a whole for some time and that was just last year that he was at Catalans. Going back a little further Israel Folau and then the players like Carney, Horo, Mason etc. 

They're top of the league after 17 games.  They finished 4th in 2022 and 1st in 2021.  I think we can safely say they've turned the culture around and this is all history now. 

[Jughead]

8 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

They're top of the league after 17 games.  They finished 4th in 2022 and 1st in 2021.  I think we can safely say they've turned the culture around and this is all history now. 

They still have potential to bring in idiots as per Dylan Napa and Israel Folau in the past three years. While it’s vastly improved, they do still make questionable decisions. 

[WN83]

In fairness to them with Napa and one or two others over the last 4 or 5 seasons, which clubs don't get the odd one wrong? Be that their attitude, injury record, quality etc. I would say Napa is an exception in recent times and not the rule. I look at Wire at the minute and they seem to sign players a bit like Catalans once did, in that they think of the ability first and everything else is an afterthought. I think Catalans have flipped that around in the main and now make sure that players are not only of the required quality but they are also decent characters. 

Catalans will no doubt get some wrong going forward but it feels they're at least now getting the vast majority right, whereas at one point, you'd be lucky if it was 50/50. 

[Lowdesert]

15 hours ago, barnyia said:

This was the reason Alex Chan became manager I believe. 

Not sure.  They were having Mad Mondays when Robinson was there and they finished in the upper half for both those years.  Chan arrived in either 2015 or 2016 when LF was coach.

I think the boozing etc was already there years before, it just came to a head in the Carney era.  

Gre Bird summed up Horo, Mason & Taylor as a ‘loose crew’.  

 

[StandOffHalf]

5 hours ago, Damien said:

The issues Catalans have had over the years with poor imports go far beyond that period and the 4 players Horo talks of. Mason was only there 1 year out of 18. Catalans were always well known as a place players went to for a holiday and a nice retirement payday before these 4. Indeed after the 4 that Hori talks of they signed Greg Bird again despite him being shown the door by Gold Coast due to off field issues. It was only last year they released Dylan Napa, who was a disaster, after again signing a player from the NRL who left there under a cloud. 

As others have said it is only recently they have ditched their heavy reliance on southern hemisphere imports and replaced them with English players that the culture has improved.

Fair points. I thought Greg Bird was really good for them though, despite all his issues on-field and off-field.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

20 hours ago, Damien said:

Firstly I always think the bye round with James Graham is always a great watch and you get some great insights from players.

In this episode Justin Horo talks about his time at Catalans from about 6 minutes in. While simply confirming what many of us have long thought was the case it's still very revealing when an ex-player talks about the poor culture at Catalans, led by their Australian imports who seem to treat it as one big holiday. Quite why Guash has never learned his lesson when it comes to these imports I'll never know. What Horo says does certainly explain why they are so erratic:

 

Cats aren't doing too badly considering though!

[jacobus]

Even as a Dragons fan I agree that many of the NRL signings haven't been up to standard. 

But some of those ex-NRL players via Superleague as well... I was as disappointed with Brent Webb and Luke Walsh as I was with Todd Carney, Coal Train, and plenty of others. 

[Lowdesert]

38 minutes ago, jacobus said:

Even as a Dragons fan I agree that many of the NRL signings haven't been up to standard. 

But some of those ex-NRL players via Superleague as well... I was as disappointed with Brent Webb and Luke Walsh as I was with Todd Carney, Coal Train, and plenty of others. 

Those that haven’t were in the minority.

I have a vivid recollection of Masons first game as he walked down to the warm up drill area in front of Puig Aubert, in a jersey one size too small, wearing a girdle and then tripping over in the first passing drill in the coned off area.  Complete embarrassment to the profession.