London Skolars

[del capo]

3 hours ago, Griff said:

Outcome?

Doubt if much has happened since Friday. A bit of patience, please.

The problem that has been League 1 has been known all season. ( if not longer )

Let's wait til the house burns down and then ask the surviving occupants where they want to live./  what we should do do about it. That's all that that RFL statement added up to.

Proactive management from the custodians of our game ? Could be that there is a blue print yet to be  unveiled to the loyal fans.......

[Hello]

10 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

Biggest pro sports club in NZ is an RL club. French club in SL top 3. Tonga,Fiji and Samoa reaching test quality. Toulouse, Broncos doing well. Cornwall getting good crowds and winning matches. Hardly contracting rapidly. A couple of very weak 'pro' clubs dropping out of the pro leagues is hardly RL 'contracting rapidly'.  

I take your point and, yes, for sure there are positives. But in the ten odd years I have been watching SL has lost its Welsh team, it's London team, gained and lost its Canadian team and further down we've lost Hemel, Oxford, Gloucester etc. I would argue that with the significant drop in crowds over that time that Broncos are not doing well, certainly their fans on here say not. Pacific island nations have lot of heritage players and little domestic action as far as I can tell, though I hope that it is increasing and would like to be corrected

Edited September 17, 2023 by Hello

[Rapscallion]

25 minutes ago, Hello said:

I take your point and, yes, for sure there are positives. But in the ten odd years I have been watching SL has lost its Welsh team, it's London team, gained and lost its Canadian team and further down we've lost Hemel, Oxford, Gloucester etc. I would argue that with the significant drop in crowds over that time that Broncos are not doing well, certainly their fans on here say not. Pacific island nations have lot of heritage players and little domestic action as far as I can tell, though I hope that it is increasing and would like to be corrected

While you’re factually correct in what you say about clubs joining and leaving the professional ranks, they were admitted without a plan or strategy so set up to fail from the beginning, really. 

[Anita Bath]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Presumably if League 1 and Championship is merged then the two divisions funding would be similarly merged?

Championship clubs will love that…giving up some of the crumbs they receive to lower level clubs while super league remains awash with cash ( in relative terms)

[Mumby Magic]

There's some big decisions to be made for the game at this level, if the RFL are bothered at all. 

1. We can't run with 9 next year. I know technically we can but it looks so tinpot.

2. Although we have done in the oast we can't change the structure again after a season is played. 

3. I know it goes against the grain but could we introduce another club? 

Going forward after next season should be 12 12 11.

 

[Derwent Parker]

15 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

It's perfectly possible to work out an unsymmetrical schedule that balances strength and/or travel distances, plenty of other sports leagues do it. When you follow it with a playoff series it's fine, and I'd support it.

The only issue with re-merging L1 and the Championship is standards. My concern would be the bottom half of L1, which would probably include all the remaining non-heartland teams, would lose almost every game, badly. That wouldn't be good for anyone, so there's a decision to be made: keep a third tier and have loop games, or cut 3 or 4 teams loose from the professional structure.

No easy answers.

Well there is an easy answer but not popular

Because you just mentioned STANDARDS - which you are correct

If you look at champ

The top 9 are having Winning seasons [i.e won more than lost]

The 5 below are having Losing seasons [i.e lost twice as many than won]

So make champ - 8 teams home and away twice = 28 games

and make L1 -15 teams home and away twice = 28 games

Both leagues playing teams of same standard all competitive

That would take STANDARDS out of the equation.

That would take LOOPS out of the equation.

That would take AMOUNT OF GAMES out of the equation.

[Hello]

11 minutes ago, Rapscallion said:

While you’re factually correct in what you say about clubs joining and leaving the professional ranks, they were admitted without a plan or strategy so set up to fail from the beginning, really. 

Yes and no I would say. Back in the day London had half decent crowds but this wasn't built on in the way that successful expansion teams manage to do. Similar probably in North Wales where crowds declined over time I believe. So yes, the planning and strategy wasn't great, but at times there was interest that could have been exploited. Toronto different kettle of fish, loads of interest generated there and here but most of the clubs voted for what they perceived was best in the short term, lack of vision in my opinion 

[wiganermike]

14 hours ago, Griff said:

When I said death, I meant the end of the club. Not just a few meaningless games at the end of the season.

It's going to be difficult to maintain interest for a team getting 40 or 50 points out past them every week. As Skolars have found.

This is why I suggested a combining of the two divisions for one season only in my earlier post. Sure there will be some heavy defeats when the top sides face the lower end but having a single division for one season only to facilitate a more permanent reorganisation would mean that those clubs won't face those stronger opponents as an ongoing issue year on year. Using the fixture pattern I suggested (play 8 teams twice and 10 teams once) there would be four teams that each club did not face in the season. The four weakest teams on the League 1 ladder excepting Skolars were Cornwall, Midlands, Rochdale and North Wales. In a single season combined league using my suggested fixture pattern those teams could face the likes of Wakefield, Batley, Bradford, Toulouse, Fev, Halifax or Broncos either just once or not at all. The teams that ended that season in the bottom 11 would likely have taken a few hammerings but it would only be for one season that they were having to face the strongest 12. Some of those League 1 teams take such hammerings in League 1 as it is and their fans might appreciate the chance to see their team take on the stronger teams even if it meant a defeat in those fixtures.

[corkonian77]

The 2012 World Cup was supposed to champion the expansion of the sport. 

It is been remarkable in its failure to produce.

London Skolars dropping down is supprising.  

[IM2]

On 16/09/2023 at 23:18, Tre Cool said:

Always the Broncos fault that Hemel and Skolars couldn't make it as pro clubs. Skolars have been languishing at the very bottom of the 3rd tier for years and years playing in front of a couple of hundred people. Their failure has nothing to do with the Broncos. 

so 2 seasons ago the broncos never took Skolars head coach & half the squad and no help to back fill at all. also what about the masses of Skolars juniors who have gone to the broncos over the years and ended up in the first team. comments like that really PMO!

[Click]

10 hours ago, IM2 said:

so 2 seasons ago the broncos never took Skolars head coach & half the squad and no help to back fill at all. also what about the masses of Skolars juniors who have gone to the broncos over the years and ended up in the first team. comments like that really PMO!

I assume Skolars don't have any Broncos players then? Have never benefitted in the 30 odd years that they've both been around?

[Tre Cool]

10 hours ago, IM2 said:

so 2 seasons ago the broncos never took Skolars head coach & half the squad and no help to back fill at all. also what about the masses of Skolars juniors who have gone to the broncos over the years and ended up in the first team. comments like that really PMO!

Yes I know. It's "pro" sport not a charity. How many of Broncos best players and coaches have gone north to compete at a higher level. Skolars troubles go much deeper than another higher tier club offering their players an opportunity. I'm gutted they've had to call it a day but let's face it they've struggled since day 1 as a pro club. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

On 17/09/2023 at 10:31, Hello said:

I take your point and, yes, for sure there are positives. But in the ten odd years I have been watching SL has lost its Welsh team, it's London team, gained and lost its Canadian team and further down we've lost Hemel, Oxford, Gloucester etc. I would argue that with the significant drop in crowds over that time that Broncos are not doing well, certainly their fans on here say not. Pacific island nations have lot of heritage players and little domestic action as far as I can tell, though I hope that it is increasing and would like to be corrected

I think the key point is that Catalans have been successful despite the RFL/SL organisation (they even tried to charge them a bond to enter the Cup!), and everything else listed is due to the success of the NRL. Northern Hemisphere strategy and performance has been woeful, hence why I for one was pleased we were bringing someone else in to help with it. 

[Ned Smiley]

21 hours ago, corkonian77 said:

The 2012 World Cup was supposed to champion the expansion of the sport. 

It is been remarkable in its failure to produce.

London Skolars dropping down is supprising.  

Not sure that was solely the fault of the 2013 World Cup, rather the fact that anything the game does in the UK is almost totally dependent on the money from the one major TV deal we have, as we seem unable to attract sustained investment from elsewhere and the value of the TV deal has fallen through the floor, and what is left has basically been concentrated at the SL end of the sport, then the funding for development officers in many places, particularly outside the heartlands, like Bristol, London etc, of the sport has gone. 

[Cheadle Leyther]

If there is a return to one league, I guess it will be confirmation of the end of the big bash at Blackpool, which I always enjoyed when watching Leigh playing there.

[steve oates]

21 minutes ago, Tre Cool said:

It's "pro" sport not a charity. How many of Broncos best players and coaches have gone north to compete at a higher level. Skolars troubles go much deeper than another higher tier club offering their players an opportunity. I'm gutted they've had to call it a day but let's face it they've struggled since day 1 as a pro club. 

That just about sums it up. Are Cornwall and Hurricanes also in place so they too can give up to the championship and Superleague the talent they may find and nurture into higher level players? 

 

[Click]

11 minutes ago, steve oates said:

That just about sums it up. Are Cornwall and Hurricanes also in place so they too can give up to the championship and Superleague the talent they may find and nurture into higher level players? 

 

I'm sure if Cornwall or the Hurricanes developed a player that other clubs saw potential in, they would move on if given a better deal. Should they not?

[Tre Cool]

13 minutes ago, steve oates said:

That just about sums it up. Are Cornwall and Hurricanes also in place so they too can give up to the championship and Superleague the talent they may find and nurture into higher level players? 

 

Yes, if they don't achieve progress on and off the pitch to keep their best players then they will go.  That's how sport works? 

[EssexRL]

12 hours ago, IM2 said:

so 2 seasons ago the broncos never took Skolars head coach & half the squad and no help to back fill at all. also what about the masses of Skolars juniors who have gone to the broncos over the years and ended up in the first team. comments like that really PMO!

Indeed - also wrong to say that we have been languishing at the bottom of the league for seasons. Also generally our crowds stood up to the average for league 1 even though we are out of the heartland. It sounds trivial but I think sums up the relationship that Skolars offered Bronco fans half price tickets to see us but we never had a similar offer. Of course a number of factors created this situation, most outside of the control of the club.

300 or so people watching Broncos, plus the end of All Golds, Oxford, South Wales (WWR), Hemel and now Skolars presence in L1 leaving just Midlands and Cornwall (for the time being) strongly suggests all is not well with the game outside any actions of these clubs. If the game is going to take its future seriously and the IMG recommendations it needs to think very carefully about how to scale and sustain the sport outside of a handful of northern towns and a couple of cities. 

[Tre Cool]

8 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

Indeed - also wrong to say that we have been languishing at the bottom of the league for seasons. Also generally our crowds stood up to the average for league 1 even though we are out of the heartland. It sounds trivial but I think sums up the relationship that Skolars offered Bronco fans half price tickets to see us but we never had a similar offer. Of course a number of factors created this situation, most outside of the control of the club.

300 or so people watching Broncos, plus the end of All Golds, Oxford, South Wales (WWR), Hemel and now Skolars presence in L1 leaving just Midlands and Cornwall (for the time being) strongly suggests all is not well with the game outside any actions of these clubs. If the game is going to take its future seriously and the IMG recommendations it needs to think very carefully about how to scale and sustain the sport outside of a handful of northern towns and a couple of cities. 

The last eight seasons final position in the third tier: 10/9/9/8/12/11/8/11

They finished 4th in 2013 which was the only top half finish ever.  What did London Broncos do to them after that year to make them drop again?

[dealwithit]

On 16/09/2023 at 02:56, JM2010 said:

If the Broncos can get back to being a full time outfit with the 3 clubs you mention as well as Skolars and Hemel playing in the Southern Conference then that wouldn’t be a bad scenario in London. The key as you say though is getting juniors to play the game. This is where any investment in London RL should be targeted 

I’ve always been dubious about the reserves comp. Do the Broncos really need a reserves team? Surely those squad members that miss out on selection could go back and play that weekend for a southern conference team?  

[JM2010]

45 minutes ago, dealwithit said:

I’ve always been dubious about the reserves comp. Do the Broncos really need a reserves team? Surely those squad members that miss out on selection could go back and play that weekend for a southern conference team?  

I know that the heartlands fans don’t like dual reg but that scenario probably works best for places like London with the Southern Conference being used for fringe players 

[Derwent Parker]

5 hours ago, EssexRL said:

Indeed - also wrong to say that we have been languishing at the bottom of the league for seasons. Also generally our crowds stood up to the average for league 1 even though we are out of the heartland. It sounds trivial but I think sums up the relationship that Skolars offered Bronco fans half price tickets to see us but we never had a similar offer. Of course a number of factors created this situation, most outside of the control of the club.

300 or so people watching Broncos, plus the end of All Golds, Oxford, South Wales (WWR), Hemel and now Skolars presence in L1 leaving just Midlands and Cornwall (for the time being) strongly suggests all is not well with the game outside any actions of these clubs. If the game is going to take its future seriously and the IMG recommendations it needs to think very carefully about how to scale and sustain the sport outside of a handful of northern towns and a couple of cities. 

RFL/IMG are only interested in SL - everything else is just classed as feeder clubs and somewhere they can use their excess players on dual reg.

[Rapscallion]

9 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

Yes I know. It's "pro" sport not a charity. How many of Broncos best players and coaches have gone north to compete at a higher level. Skolars troubles go much deeper than another higher tier club offering their players an opportunity. I'm gutted they've had to call it a day but let's face it they've struggled since day 1 as a pro club. 

Struggled is a subjective term. There’s probably someone who knows the numbers but they’ve provided a pathway for numerous London born players to play the sport at semi-pro level, they’ve developed relationships within the city of London, they developed a community branch of their club they’ve provided opportunities to young men from one of the poorest Boroughs in London and have been a mainstay of the third tier, beating northern sides on the way. Success isn’t just what happens on a Saturday/Sunday afternoon for 80 minutes. 

Arguably, I’d say Skolars have been a greater success in their 20 years or so of semi-pro rugby league than many of the northern clubs. 

[Cb2]

21 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

Yes I know. It's "pro" sport not a charity. How many of Broncos best players and coaches have gone north to compete at a higher level. Skolars troubles go much deeper than another higher tier club offering their players an opportunity. I'm gutted they've had to call it a day but let's face it they've struggled since day 1 as a pro club. 

I would say that the answer is probably somewhere in the middle. Are Broncos solely at fault for Skolars demise? Absolutely not. Are they one set of multiple fingerprints that all over this - yes. (I disagree with the Head Coach argument - if you speak to Skolars directors they will tell you Coleman was going to be removed anyway - the players argument is fairly accurate). 

The RFL haven’t helped - Skolars were fined their entire operational funding last year albeit with half suspended for the no doctor Keighley game. As stated before when you add in the £7k overnight away trips - you’re in a deficit very quickly. 

Skolars have had some good seasons - circa 2012 in the current coaches first stint - making the play off semi final. 
 

I am obviously pro Skolars and many would disagree but the RFL should step in with additional funding for the good of the competition in 2024 - keep it as ten teams, give Skolars another year to find investment or a buyer. 2025 is anyone’s guess as to whether League 1 will even exist.