England v Tonga series

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

9 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Sales are above 11k, say the RFL.

How depressing are these low expectations? 

[Chris22]

4 hours ago, dead man inc said:

Are tickets for sale on the gate or available online on the day mobile tickets - or do you have to print at home?

If you buy online now, you have to collect at the ticket office tomorrow I think.

[Yakstorm]

Announced crowd - 12,898

[Guest]

The few tranches of tickets I noticed being released in the lower core stand all seem to have gone.

So hopefully today was good marketing. If the RFL are to be believed, they shifted 1,500 odd in the last couple of days prior to St Helens. 

[Just Browny]

On TV, it came across as a good crowd and decent event. Anthems sung properly with no microphone #### ups, as far as I know it was the Tongan national anthem. I know we are setting the bar low but we usually mess those things up.

I don't think Huddersfield is as 'forgiving' a stadium if there are empty seats (=they're more noticeable) so hopefully lots of people saw a decent game on TV and thought they fancied having a look next week.

[Hopie]

Anything less than a sellout is a poor crowd for these games, tickets are cheap and the product on the field is a good one, it will probably be better in the next two games.

However as a long time attendee of England/GB games I could see why someone wouldn't go to the game today. What was better than watching on TV? I can watch the action, and replays (the big screen at St Helens doesn't seem to work in the daylight) and the anthems/Sipi Tau (which for some reason they played music over the beginning in the ground) on TV for free. What would make someone attempt negotiating the M62 traffic jams to be there in person?

Nothing going on outside the ground apart from a merch stall and a gathering of Tongans (who seem to have managed to bring their sound system inside the ground which is amazing) and nothing of note to entertain the crowd in the build up or half time (some interviews with players which I couldn't hear on the sound system and the usual local kids dance to some songs - they literally announced its a way to get parents to come to the game with their kids). Add to that the stadium not opening all the bars and others running out of food/drink.

I've been at some quiet grounds before, but when the band wasn't playing I could literally hear the ref calling held from the back of the stand. The players seemed really motivated, but the English fans seemed not that bothered, it would be nice if the organisers of the game did something to help build a crescendo of noise and enthusiasm for the game.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Hopie

[M j M]

53 minutes ago, Hopie said:

I've been at some quiet grounds before, but when the band wasn't playing I could literally hear the ref calling held from the back of the stand. The players seemed really motivated, but the English fans seemed not that bothered, it would be nice if the organisers of the game did something to help build a crescendo of noise and enthusiasm for the game.

There's often not much of an atmosphere, by UK RL standards, at England/GB games. Unless it's vs Kiwis or Kangaroos and even then it disappears if we're getting hammered.

The problem with Tonga I suspect is that we don't really dislike them enough for fans to be at their usual club-level of engagement with the game.

[Hopie]

9 minutes ago, M j M said:

There's often not much of an atmosphere, by UK RL standards, at England/GB games. Unless it's vs Kiwis or Kangaroos and even then it disappears if we're getting hammered.

The problem with Tonga I suspect is that we don't really dislike them enough for fans to be at their usual club-level of engagement with the game.

Hatred is clearly the generator of the loudest noise, I remember twenty odd years ago when Wigan were still famous the Southstand really ramped up for their visits. I guess when Tonga got clapped onto the field that was a bad sign, poor atmospheres aren't unusual but this was one of the poorest.

But the Tongans were making a decent noise for their numbers, having been at the 2017 version of this fixture, I can still dream of a real atmosphere at an England home game. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Hopie

[dead man inc]

1 hour ago, Hopie said:

Anything less than a sellout is a poor crowd for these games, tickets are cheap and the product on the field is a good one.

Fans moan there is no international RL calendar, then when there is a game it has vast numbers of unsold tickets Was a great game today & although it ‘looked physically at the game & on TV’ a reasonable attendance - in reality 25%+ of the ground was unsold!

I fully appreciate there is a major cost of living crisis going on that may mean attending the game is not a priority or even a possibility for many people, but the tickets were very reasonable priced for a international sporting event.

On forums it’s easy to blame the RFL/marketing or a myriad of other reasons out of our control for poor attendances - but do we need to be a bit more honest and admit as a sport the fans ourselves are often our own worst enemies?

[IM2]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

On TV, it came across as a good crowd and decent event. Anthems sung properly with no microphone #### ups, as far as I know it was the Tongan national anthem. I know we are setting the bar low but we usually mess those things up.

I don't think Huddersfield is as 'forgiving' a stadium if there are empty seats (=they're more noticeable) so hopefully lots of people saw a decent game on TV and thought they fancied having a look next week.

it was a good crowd live as well. what was disappointing is we were in hospitality and less than 100 in there. talking to someone at Saints told me they would have sold it out but RFL insisted on selling it. poor value as well. rest of day was good tho and as I say crowd and atmosphere was good.

[Chris22]

Thought I'd put this in here rather than the match thread. If I was a new fan today, I'd have been distinctly unimpressed.

Firstly, several turnstiles were not scanning barcodes on tickets causing congestion and a kick off delay. The RFL also sold seats that did not exist, not realising that the rows towards the back of the stand were of differing lengths. Thankfully, not an issue as it didn't sell out. Several of the stadium bars were closed. Those that were open ran out of soft drinks and snacks by 30 minutes and water by half time.

I don't know if its Saints to blame or the RFL. Though I must say I've never seen such issues with kiosks at a Saints match in the 10+ years the stadium has now been open.

We need to be far better than this.

[EggFace]

2 hours ago, Yakstorm said:

Announced crowd - 12,898

And a better game then the day before in Paris

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

There's often not much of an atmosphere, by UK RL standards, at England/GB games. Unless it's vs Kiwis or Kangaroos and even then it disappears if we're getting hammered.

The problem with Tonga I suspect is that we don't really dislike them enough for fans to be at their usual club-level of engagement with the game.

Then we need to build the game ...RFL need a knocking  should of been a sell out...with England Rugby Union neing ed both international and the Premiership we need to capitailze on this and get back back to 1994.

[EggFace]

12 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Thought I'd put this in here rather than the match thread. If I was a new fan today, I'd have been distinctly unimpressed.

Firstly, several turnstiles were not scanning barcodes on tickets causing congestion and a kick off delay. The RFL also sold seats that did not exist, not realising that the rows towards the back of the stand were of differing lengths. Thankfully, not an issue as it didn't sell out. Several of the stadium bars were closed. Those that were open ran out of soft drinks and snacks by 30 minutes and water by half time.

I don't know if its Saints to blame or the RFL. Though I must say I've never seen such issues with kiosks at a Saints match in the 10+ years the stadium has now been open.

We need to be far better than this.

Sounds like a Thunder experience.

 

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

If they want to sell some tickets for the 2nd test then they better get some open, there's barely any showing for the Chadwick Lawrence Stand and the Core stand. Anyone wanting a decent seat along the side of the pitch would probably give.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Hopie said:

Anything less than a sellout is a poor crowd for these games, tickets are cheap and the product on the field is a good one, it will probably be better in the next two games.

However as a long time attendee of England/GB games I could see why someone wouldn't go to the game today. What was better than watching on TV? I can watch the action, and replays (the big screen at St Helens doesn't seem to work in the daylight) and the anthems/Sipi Tau (which for some reason they played music over the beginning in the ground) on TV for free. What would make someone attempt negotiating the M62 traffic jams to be there in person?

Nothing going on outside the ground apart from a merch stall and a gathering of Tongans (who seem to have managed to bring their sound system inside the ground which is amazing) and nothing of note to entertain the crowd in the build up or half time (some interviews with players which I couldn't hear on the sound system and the usual local kids dance to some songs - they literally announced its a way to get parents to come to the game with their kids). Add to that the stadium not opening all the bars and others running out of food/drink.

I've been at some quiet grounds before, but when the band wasn't playing I could literally hear the ref calling held from the back of the stand. The players seemed really motivated, but the English fans seemed not that bothered, it would be nice if the organisers of the game did something to help build a crescendo of noise and enthusiasm for the game.

By that definition there is rarely any reason to go to a live event. 

England RL crowds are always quiet tbh.

Although the two most electric sporting events I have been too, and I go to a lot, were Archer bowling at Smith at Lords (Smith was eventually forced to retire hurt) and the last 20 minutes of England v Samoa at the Emirates when the result really mattered. 

[2blackrooks]

Think the issue with attendances is the public have been starved of international rugby over the years, that their not use to it on a regular basis, and needs re building.

we need regular international games, against the top 5 throughout the year not just a end of season kick about. 
Other sports seem to manage internationals during the regular season, we just need to change the mindset 

[overtheborder]

9 minutes ago, 2blackrooks said:

Think the issue with attendances is the public have been starved of international rugby over the years, that their not use to it on a regular basis, and needs re building.

we need regular international games, against the top 5 throughout the year not just a end of season kick about. 
Other sports seem to manage internationals during the regular season, we just need to change the mindset 

This - I think consistency is key. In terms of the product itself, while I couldn't make the game I was excited to watch it on TV and saw it as a great test against tough opposition. If you have that in the winter every year, be that four nations, or a series like this one, people get used to it and it becomes a habit (I'd imagine in the same way as some people go to the GF year in year out). I don't think we even need to mess about with the venues too much - a game in the north west/Yorkshire/somewhere else and I think people get used to looking out for the one local to them.

I do sometimes feel like mid-season internationals just don't feel as exciting - I don't know what the answer is there, maybe because they seem like a distraction from the club game? Even football international breaks are treated with contempt by a section of club fans, although the off-season tournaments like the World Cup and Euros are well-received generally.

[Dave T]

59 minutes ago, Leonard said:

By that definition there is rarely any reason to go to a live event. 

England RL crowds are always quiet tbh.

Although the two most electric sporting events I have been too, and I go to a lot, were Archer bowling at Smith at Lords (Smith was eventually forced to retire hurt) and the last 20 minutes of England v Samoa at the Emirates when the result really mattered. 

But it doesn't have to be like this. Imo a key reason that England crowds are quiet is because of the complete inconsistency around England games. There is no consistency around grounds, no supporters club, no real rivalries created - I saw someone on FB describing it as feeling like a testimonial game, and that is a major part of the issue 

I was 50/50 all week, and then when I went to buy tickets the website wouldn't let me, I gave up, never went back and just watched it at home with some good food and beer. 

For most sports there is this thing of 'nothing beats being there' but I don't find that with RL internationals, I think they are far better to watch on TV tbh. 

Fair play to those who go and enjoy it, I'm glad they enjoyed it, but there was an awful lot of feedback here and on social media that the event was all rather lacking, and that is just accepted nowadays in RL. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

there was an awful lot of feedback here and on social media that the event was all rather lacking, and that is just accepted nowadays in RL. 

They should book a half decent music act and have the same pre match pyrotechnics they had for the Grand Final. If that is their view as to what 'good' pre-match entertainment looks like, then not bothering for the internationals instantly downgrades them as less important. I appreciate these things cost money, and the RFL hasn't got any, but they've missed out on 5k+ tickets being sold yesterday (never mind the hospitality). Basing on an average of £25 per ticket that's at least 125k they've lost out on. How many people didn't bother going because they've been underwhelmed by England 'events' before?

[Billy King's Boots]

Observations for what it's worth: (in no particular order)

- The ticket buying website isn't the best: had to go round the houses to get two tickets - and they took three days to email them over (and I had to chase them).

- Spoke to a couple of people who'd had trouble getting hold of their tickets: the queue at the ticket office pre-game was huge.

- We couldn't have been the only vegetarian RL fans there, but they'd sold out of cheese and onion pies by 2.15pm.

- It was busy and buzzing outside the ground before the game, but the that didn't translate into the stadium.

- There were two huge queues at the merchandise van - always a positive. Quite a few non-Tongans buying Tongan gear.

- Atmosphere was a little muted, but the crowd was appreciative of good passages of play.

- We were sat close to the bloke who played the stadium music - the guys at pitchside were going nuts at him to kill the music when the Tongans started the Sipi Tau. He wasn't paying attention.

- The big screen was a complete waste of time: not enough illumination to cope with English October sunshine.

- The game was tight and combative: the difference was the Tongan handling error for Johnston's try. Though England won, thought Tonga were easier on the eye and played more adventurous football.

- Overall, enjoyed the event - I'm a big fan of international RL and feel that it's important to go to games to show that it matters.

- Yes, I'll be at Huddersfield: need a Tonga win to keep things interesting.

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But it doesn't have to be like this. Imo a key reason that England crowds are quiet is because of the complete inconsistency around England games. There is no consistency around grounds, no supporters club, no real rivalries created - I saw someone on FB describing it as feeling like a testimonial game, and that is a major part of the issue 

I was 50/50 all week, and then when I went to buy tickets the website wouldn't let me, I gave up, never went back and just watched it at home with some good food and beer. 

For most sports there is this thing of 'nothing beats being there' but I don't find that with RL internationals, I think they are far better to watch on TV tbh. 

Fair play to those who go and enjoy it, I'm glad they enjoyed it, but there was an awful lot of feedback here and on social media that the event was all rather lacking, and that is just accepted nowadays in RL. 

I get that - but I'm not someone bothered by the pre match stuff, although I get others are.

I'm usually happy to base attendance around a day out or weekend away - so I am happy just to watch the game.

[Guest]

3 Sections of Core Stand sold out for Saturday.

I'm guessing they probably are sold out to be taken off the ticket list, rather than not up for sale or partially sold and taken off.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Observations for what it's worth: (in no particular order)

- The ticket buying website isn't the best: had to go round the houses to get two tickets - and they took three days to email them over (and I had to chase them).

- Spoke to a couple of people who'd had trouble getting hold of their tickets: the queue at the ticket office pre-game was huge.

- We couldn't have been the only vegetarian RL fans there, but they'd sold out of cheese and onion pies by 2.15pm.

- It was busy and buzzing outside the ground before the game, but the that didn't translate into the stadium.

- There were two huge queues at the merchandise van - always a positive. Quite a few non-Tongans buying Tongan gear.

- Atmosphere was a little muted, but the crowd was appreciative of good passages of play.

- We were sat close to the bloke who played the stadium music - the guys at pitchside were going nuts at him to kill the music when the Tongans started the Sipi Tau. He wasn't paying attention.

- The big screen was a complete waste of time: not enough illumination to cope with English October sunshine.

- The game was tight and combative: the difference was the Tongan handling error for Johnston's try. Though England won, thought Tonga were easier on the eye and played more adventurous football.

- Overall, enjoyed the event - I'm a big fan of international RL and feel that it's important to go to games to show that it matters.

- Yes, I'll be at Huddersfield: need a Tonga win to keep things interesting.

Fair summary of the day.

I think Tonga might actually win to be honest - game was tight and a breakaway try in it.

The website is a Ticketmaster affair - so not sure the influence the RFL has. But I see they are showing the Core Stand as basically a sell out on Saturday - so will see if that is the usual BS. You would think they should be offering any unsold seats there, if there are any - rather than trying to force new punters into what is left on offer in the Chadwick.

[OdsalBull]

Good game but for me the average England team Vs Tonga is just not going to draw the crowds