The IMG Gradings Thread - Post all your IMG Gradings related questions or comments here

[Griff]

17 hours ago, DEANO said:

At least in the past it was decided on the field unless your face didn’t fit

How well has that worked over the past 125 years or so?

[Damien]

17 hours ago, DEANO said:

At least in the past it was decided on the field unless your face didn’t fit

I'm sure you didn't agree with that system either though.

[Worzel]

On 31/01/2024 at 10:37, Harry Stottle said:

Leigh ripped up the the half assed method and set a new blueprint for maintaining SL status, this is the new method that could adopted if P&R was maintained.

If you think spaffing £2m up the wall is a new blueprint then you've not been watching much since 1995

Degsy did spaff it more effectively though, I'll give you that

[ATLANTISMAN]

15 minutes ago, Worzel said:

If you think spaffing £2m up the wall is a new blueprint then you've not been watching much since 1995

Degsy did spaff it more effectively though, I'll give you that

As the owner that's his personal choice fair play to him.

Paul

[Worzel]

30 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

As the owner that's his personal choice fair play to him.

Paul

I think it's to be celebrated, we don't have enough Dereks in the game. Just not an innovation. 

[Spidey]

47 minutes ago, Worzel said:

If you think spaffing £2m up the wall is a new blueprint then you've not been watching much since 1995

Degsy did spaff it more effectively though, I'll give you that

At his third go. So more like £6M+

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I'm sure you didn't agree with that system either though.

$uPeR gReEd

[Taffy Tiger]

On 31/01/2024 at 08:03, Dave T said:

Taffy, thinking about this a touch more, I'm still not following the exemption piece. 

My understanding is that your rankings in October of each year decide where you will play. 

So let's say we follow your example and Hull KR drop a few points which sees them drop to a B ranking and they are overtaken by a handful of clubs. If they are ranked 13th and B, why wouldn't they be ousted? 

Isn't it the case that the top 12 ranked clubs in Oct 2024 will play in SL in 2025? Their 2023 ranking is wiped. 

Hi Dave T

 

That would be the case for 2024/25 as 2023 gradings were indicative only , so 2025 SL participants , will be dependent soley on Oct 2024 gradings ie top 12 . However , from then on you couldn't be relegated the year after directly gaining a Cat A . In the case of Hull KR , if you are Cat A in Oct 2024 , you can't be relegated at the end of 2025 , irrespective of your score or position in gradings in Oct 2025 . However , you wouldn't then be exempt the following season ie if you weren't in Top 12 (and were Cat B or below) in Oct 2026 , you would then be relegated . 

Edited February 2 by Taffy Tiger

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Taffy Tiger said:

Hi Dave T

 

That would be the case for 2024/25 as 2023 gradings were indicative only , so 2025 SL participants , will be dependent soley on Oct 2024 gradings ie top 12 . However , from then on you couldn't be relegated the year after directly gaining a Cat A . In the case of Hull KR , if you are Cat A in Oct 2024 , you can't be relegated at the end of 2025 , irrespective of your score or position in gradings in Oct 2025 . However , you wouldn't then be exempt the following season ie if you weren't in Top 12 (and were Cat B or below) in Oct 2026 , you would then be relegated . 

So in effect we wouldn't always have the top 12 ranked clubs in SL? 

[LeytherRob]

bit of further elaboration on the interview posted further up, it appears Leigh have gained an additional 2.5 points based on the newest accounts filed and accepted by the RFL which puts us close to A

 

[Mumby Magic]

Just reiterating my view point. Its probably on pg 56 lol.

We have the product. We do have strong clubs either decent support too. The game needs just the odd tweak not major overhaul. I feel we'll have IMG then there will something else down the line. We need consistency. Not constantly changing things. We have had no mid or long-term plans for a sport since I've been watching which is heading towards 40 years. 

[Hopie]

39 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

bit of further elaboration on the interview posted further up, it appears Leigh have gained an additional 2.5 points based on the newest accounts filed and accepted by the RFL which puts us close to A

 

If it is that easy to fudge a few points out of the grading system, that is another reason to get the criteria fixed.

If it isn't then either Mr Beaumont doesn't understand the criteria, or something weirder is going on.

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

bit of further elaboration on the interview posted further up, it appears Leigh have gained an additional 2.5 points based on the newest accounts filed and accepted by the RFL which puts us close to A

 

It will be interesting, if true, to see where a team could gain so many points when a 3 year rolling average is used. We can only presume they must have been very close to the top bracket in multiple sections of the finance grading and this has pushed them through that. 

[LeytherRob]

3 hours ago, Hopie said:

If it is that easy to fudge a few points out of the grading system, that is another reason to get the criteria fixed.

If it isn't then either Mr Beaumont doesn't understand the criteria, or something weirder is going on.

If you are removing a covid year in the championship and swapping it for a SL season with record crowds, sponsorship, merchandising and a challenge cup win then I think it would make quite a difference to the financial results for a club, don't you? 

[Taffy Tiger]

23 hours ago, Dave T said:

So in effect we wouldn't always have the top 12 ranked clubs in SL? 

Hi DaveT , that's how I understand it , once the first set of official IMG gradings have been given . Oct 2024 will be the only time that the top 12 will be guaranteed SL status . However , for it not to be the case beyond then , it would only happen if a Cat A club dropped into Cat B status . If a Cat A club dropped to Cat B during a season (and were exempt from relegation for that season) then , in effect it would be the top 11 clubs that joined them the following season . The exemption to this rule would be if the other 12 clubs had all gained Cat A status for that season , in which case the league would need to expand . If that scenario did happen though , then I think we would move to a 14 team league .

 

Have read that back and it does sound complicated , so let's use HKR and Cas as an example to try and explain a little better 

 

end of 2024 HKR - Cat A - 15.02 points

end of 2025 HKR down to 14.02 points . Cas have 14.12 points and currently sit in 12th spot of the rankings ahead of HKR

With HKR exempt from relegation in 2025 , they stay 12th (in effect) and replace Cas who move down to 13th and miss out on SL for 2026 .

However , if Cas had 15.00 or more points at end of 2025 (and were still in 12th ahead of HKR) , then they would also qualify for SL , leaving 13 teams . I think if this happened RFL would promote a 14th team into SL .

 

I have to stress though that this is how I understand it , it doesn't mean I'm right though 

Edited February 3 by Taffy Tiger

[Hopie]

8 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

If you are removing a covid year in the championship and swapping it for a SL season with record crowds, sponsorship, merchandising and a challenge cup win then I think it would make quite a difference to the financial results for a club, don't you? 

By default being in SL makes it easier to get a higher score than being in the championship, but I don't think anybody would suggest there will be fundamental changes in the suitability for SL (or lack of) in any club between the provisional gradings and the first set of official ones. So if they do change significantly they don't measure long term sustainability or drive clubs to meet the six core objectives of the grading system.

My original comment, although in response to a tweet about Leigh, was about the grading system criteria, not about any individual club. They will all do what they can to exploit flaws in a system for their own gain. We are in the ridiculous position where nobody thinks these criteria are perfect (either they could/should be improved) but the clubs are scrambling around to decide their long term future based on them, and if they are changed for this year or a future year "moving the goalposts" will be rightly shouted from the rooftops. I don't think grading is better than deciding things on sporting contests, but doing either in a rubbish way won't help the game as a whole.

[phiggins]

15 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

It will be interesting, if true, to see where a team could gain so many points when a 3 year rolling average is used. We can only presume they must have been very close to the top bracket in multiple sections of the finance grading and this has pushed them through that. 

I think it’s a combination of converting loans to turnover (the AB Sundecks stage for example), or loans being written off and added to the club’s balance sheet. Also 2023’s finances will be replacing the 2020 year when the season was suspended. 

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Hopie said:

If it is that easy to fudge a few points out of the grading system, that is another reason to get the criteria fixed.

If it isn't then either Mr Beaumont doesn't understand the criteria, or something weirder is going on.

The gradings were based on financial figures prior to Leigh's financial year ending in December, now sorted.

Don’t forget these are IMG's rules.

Edited February 4 by Harry Stottle

[Griff]

50 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I think it’s a combination of converting loans to turnover (the AB Sundecks stage for example), or loans being written off and added to the club’s balance sheet. Also 2023’s finances will be replacing the 2020 year when the season was suspended. 

2020 was disastrous for Super League clubs but was a bonanza year for the rest.

[phiggins]

8 minutes ago, Griff said:

2020 was disastrous for Super League clubs but was a bonanza year for the rest.

Can’t have been a great year for revenue for anybody

[Griff]

13 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Can’t have been a great year for revenue for anybody

I wouldn't have included such atypical years but, obviously, it's just a temporary blip that will work its way out eventually.

[binosh]

If a team like Salford can be 8th in these new rankings then the whole thing is nonsense. 

IMG have ballsed up what could have been a great process for the game by not allowing a Grade B to be relegated and replaced by another Grade B club, especially with all the talk of the Super 8’s potentially making a return.

It would have atleast given Grade B clubs something to target other than a spreadsheet and it would have given London a better shot.

[The Phantom Horseman]

The issue here is that if it weren't for Derek Beaumont putting something on Twitter (which he didn't have to, so fair play to him) in response to a random tweet from someone else, the average RL follower wouldn't really have any idea that Leigh were set to jump up by 2.5 points, because the scoring system is so opaque.

I still don't think there's a widespread realisation of how this might change the narrative of each RL season. We can all follow results and progress on the pitch, but I very much doubt this is going to be the last financial rabbit pulled from a hat that will massively override what has been happening on the field of play.

Edited February 4 by The Phantom Horseman

[binosh]

1 minute ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

The issue here is that if it weren't for Derek Beaumont putting something on Twitter (which he didn't have to, so fair play to him) in response to a random tweet from someone else, the average RL follower wouldn't really have any idea that Leigh were set to jump up by 2.5 points, because the scoring system is so opaque.

I still don't think there's a widespread realisation of how this might change the narrative of each RL season. We can all follow results and progress on the pitch, but I very much doubt this is going to be the last financial rabbit pulled from a hat that will massively override what has been happening on the field of play.

This is a good point and has been mentioned before, half the excitement in sport is the peril of either being at the top of the table or at the bottom fighting for top league status, this process is that convoluted that fans will be wating until a paper exercise is completed at the end of each year just to know who plays where.

 

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, binosh said:

If a team like Salford can be 8th in these new rankings then the whole thing is nonsense. 

IMG have ballsed up what could have been a great process for the game by not allowing a Grade B to be relegated and replaced by another Grade B club, especially with all the talk of the Super 8’s potentially making a return.

It would have atleast given Grade B clubs something to target other than a spreadsheet and it would have given London a better shot.

That Salford can be 8th shows how weak the layer of genuinely big clubs at the top of the sport actually is.