Sat 28th Oct: International: England v Tonga KO 14:30 @ Huddersfield (BBC)

[meast]

Would the RFL be brave enough to take a series (possibly next year v Samoa) away from the northern heartlands?

There is very little appeal amongst heartland northerners for the national team anymore, so why not take 3 games around the country?

The argument that RL fans around the country can then show how to support the national team on their doorstep will be an interesting one I feel.

No doubt there will be many people within these heartlands who believe the games should be played in former pit and factory towns in northern England and we shouldn't let anyone else get involved etc.

But imagine a 3 test series with a game in say, the south east (London) South West (Bristol) and midlands( Coventry) for example, yes they might only attract 30,000 altogether but better to have 30,000 newish fans away from the heartlands than 30,000 in the heartlands right?

I'd be up for that, the international game just isn't popular up north it seems.

Sadly it doesn't appear that the RFL give a damn about it either.

[meast]

5 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

Where have you got the idea that people are blaming the crowd on Huddersfield? They aren't, I can't think of a post that says that. It's the governing body that is copping all the heat, wind your neck in.

And maybe stop having a dig at Bradford or other clubs if you don't like people being critical of your own club? If you give it, take it. 

There's lots of people piling in, RL "journalists" on social media are also having a dig, plenty others are basically hammering Huddersfield and Huddersfield Giants for it, it's not an idea, it's plain for everyone to see.

I am happy to accept criticism of my club, but not when it's not due criticism for something that doesn't even concern us.

Not sure whrere I've had a dig at Braford but hey ho.

[The Masked Poster]

2 minutes ago, meast said:

There's lots of people piling in, RL "journalists" on social media are also having a dig, plenty others are basically hammering Huddersfield and Huddersfield Giants for it, it's not an idea, it's plain for everyone to see.

I am happy to accept criticism of my club, but not when it's not due criticism for something that doesn't even concern us.

Not sure whrere I've had a dig at Braford but hey ho.

Lol do me a favour, you're always having a dig at them. 

But if some people or journalists are having a go at Huddersfield "on social media" then take it up with them, "on social media". Don't just come on here and spout cobblers. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

9 minutes ago, meast said:

Would the RFL be brave enough to take a series (possibly next year v Samoa) away from the northern heartlands?

Nope

[crashmon]

20 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Nope

I'd say its 50/50 there will be a series next year if its not NZ

[Archie Gordon]

17 minutes ago, crashmon said:

I'd say its 50/50 there will be a series next year if its not NZ

Yep.

If Samoa 2024 is not nailed on now you can bet there'll be some dithering over the next 6 months, including trying to persuade NZ (again).

[redjonn]

53 minutes ago, meast said:

Would the RFL be brave enough to take a series (possibly next year v Samoa) away from the northern heartlands?

There is very little appeal amongst heartland northerners for the national team anymore, so why not take 3 games around the country?

The argument that RL fans around the country can then show how to support the national team on their doorstep will be an interesting one I feel.

No doubt there will be many people within these heartlands who believe the games should be played in former pit and factory towns in northern England and we shouldn't let anyone else get involved etc.

.............etc

well at least one game up yon north surely...  

Its not surprising having x3 games not that far travel wise from each other. If you put all x3 games in London I'm sure not every game would be attended so well and according to many here London is a hotbed for international RL.

I am somewhat biased I must admit as I'm sick of always having to go to London for major sporting or cultural events with associated addition costs.

Yep have at least a game down South for sure but lets have at least one up here...

Its not a bad sales pitch to have our sport associated as having internationals easily accessible for all across the country not just London.

Edited October 29, 2023 by redjonn

[crashmon]

7 minutes ago, redjonn said:

well at least one game up yon north surely...  

Its not surprising having x3 games not that far travel wise from each other. If you put all x3 games in London I'm sure not every game would be attended so well and according to many here London is a hotbed for international RL.

I am somewhat biased I must admit as I'm sick of always having to go to London for major sporting or cultural events with associated addition costs.

Yep have at least a game down South for sure but lets have at least one up here...

Its not a bad sales pitch to have our sport associated as having internationals easily accessible for all across the country not just London.

Only 1 game in London

1 game in Leeds or Hull

1 game probably in Wigan

Is what I would do TBH.  

No point having more than 1 game in London right now. But it is essential to have that game in London

[sam4731]

10 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Yep.

If Samoa 2024 is not nailed on now you can bet there'll be some dithering over the next 6 months, including trying to persuade NZ (again).

At the MoS ceremony, Shaun Wane said with some certainty that Samoa are coming next year.

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, redjonn said:

well at least one game up yon north surely...  

Its not surprising having x3 games not that far travel wise from each other. If you put all x3 games in London I'm sure not every game would be attended so well and according to many here London is a hotbed for international RL.

I am somewhat biased I must admit as I'm sick of always having to go to London for major sporting or cultural events with associated addition costs.

Yep have at least a game down South for sure but lets have at least one up here...

Its not a bad sales pitch to have our sport associated as having internationals easily accessible for all across the country not just London.

I've not seen anyone suggest any more than 1 international in London. Almost every suggestion has been following the London, North West and West Yorkshire formula.

3 internationals within 60 miles of each other is the very opposite of having internationals easily accessible for all across the country.

[sam4731]

3 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Only 1 game in London

1 game in Leeds or Hull

1 game probably in Wigan

Is what I would do TBH.  

No point having more than 1 game in London right now. But it is essential to have that game in London

For me it's:

Emirates/Spurs

Elland Road

Anfield

We have to be more ambitious next year than this year. A half full Emirates is better for the game than a full Headingley.

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

Where have you got the idea that people are blaming the crowd on Huddersfield? They aren't, I can't think of a post that says that. It's the governing body that is copping all the heat, wind your neck in.

And maybe stop having a dig at Bradford or other clubs if you don't like people being critical of your own club? If you give it, take it. 

There was at least one:

18 hours ago, Ragingbull said:

The town of Huddersfield have proved week after week, year after year they  have no desire for RL. 

11k today was nothing short of pathetic for international sport. 

One only hopes thats the last time we play an international in  the town .

 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

6 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Ditto. It does my head in. I drove for 8 hours there & back yesterday and I’ve two issues:

1. The RFL continue to make cursory, cheap, half-hearted efforts to promote the game. They didn’t market this one. They put it in a location where failure was more likely (a barely rugby league town, just a week apart from the same game up the road). They didn’t put any effort into the game day itself, it felt like a pre-season friendly.

2. Let’s be honest and also call this other part out though: The apathy of heartlands fans. People who expect their small town clubs to get special treatment, to be mollycoddled as if the game owes them something, and moan incessantly whenever the game tries something slightly different. But then who never bother to turn up to international sport on their doorstep, when England have a good team, against good opponents, and tickets are cheap as chips.

I’ve had enough of both groups to be honest. Part of me thinks the sport’s governing body deserves its fans, and vice versa. 

 

I've said on here many times that unfortunately for rugby league its not too high on the list of priorities for enough people, they'll watch it but if the opportunity comes along to do something else then off they'll go.  I've been on this board for god know's how many years and could probably write a book with the excuses I've read for not attending. There's been countless threads about why people who don't attend are just as big a fan as those that do.  Which is all well and good but leads to situations like yesterdays dismal attendance. Therefore I think you should have left point 2 at "the apathy of heartland fans". The following few sentences then appear to be trying to put the blame on people like myself i.e fans of a small town club who disagree with you on the IMG proposals.  But the bulk of the rugby league support comes from Superleague clubs. There's more than a few fans of Superleague clubs on this very thread saying why they won't be attending. So don't start singling out the fans of small town clubs for this debacle because the blame lies much closer to home.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

37 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

I've said on here many times that unfortunately for rugby league its not too high on the list of priorities for enough people, they'll watch it but if the opportunity comes along to do something else then off they'll go.  I've been on this board for god know's how many years and could probably write a book with the excuses I've read for not attending. There's been countless threads about why people who don't attend are just as big a fan as those that do.  Which is all well and good but leads to situations like yesterdays dismal attendance. Therefore I think you should have left point 2 at "the apathy of heartland fans". The following few sentences then appear to be trying to put the blame on people like myself i.e fans of a small town club who disagree with you on the IMG proposals.  But the bulk of the rugby league support comes from Superleague clubs. There's more than a few fans of Superleague clubs on this very thread saying why they won't be attending. So don't start singling out the fans of small town clubs for this debacle because the blame lies much closer to home.

Nah, most Super League clubs are in small towns, so they’re fully included in my rant believe me. I’m fed up of “heartlands supporters” of all persuasions telling us we can’t do new things in order to attract a new audience, and should instead focus on “protecting the heartland” when it’s obvious that almost all heartland clubs’ fans are only interested in their club, not the wider game or the long-term welfare of the sport. 

We need new audiences, as the “traditional” ones don’t show up. Time to focus on new customers and let the old ones whinge to themselves if they don’t like some of the things we need to do in order to attract t those people. Because if we keep looking backwards based on what that lot say then in a few years we’re dead. 

[Angelic Cynic]

8 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nah, most Super League clubs are in small towns, so they’re fully included in my rant believe me. I’m fed up of “heartlands supporters” of all persuasions telling us we can’t do new things in order to attract a new audience, and should instead focus on “protecting the heartland” when it’s obvious that almost all heartland clubs’ fans are only interested in their club, not the wider game or the long-term welfare of the sport. 

We need new audiences, as the “traditional” ones don’t show up. Time to focus on new customers and let the old ones whinge to themselves if they don’t like some of the things we need to do in order to attract t those people. Because if we keep looking backwards based on what that lot say then in a few years we’re dead. 

Where do you attract the new audiences from?

I thought IMG had been brought in for that...

https://www.img.com/sports/our-news/rugby-football-league-and-super-league-announce-strategic-partnership-with-img-to-transform-rugby-league

Coincidental it was Ken Davy who introduced IMG.

Going well,thus far.

Big city clubs,especially.One of whom effectively saved big club Hull FC and attract decent World Cup game attendances and Magic Weekend attendances.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Where do you attract the new audiences from?

I thought IMG had been brought in for that...

https://www.img.com/sports/our-news/rugby-football-league-and-super-league-announce-strategic-partnership-with-img-to-transform-rugby-league

Coincidental it was Ken Davy who introduced IMG.

Going well,thus far.

Big city clubs,especially.One of whom effectively saved big club Hull FC and attract decent World Cup game attendances and Magic Weekend attendances.  

Well, plenty went to games in Coventry, Boro and Sheffield for the WC - and for bang average games.

So it seems there is more of an interest in attending "events" outside of the heartlands.

Hull would be a terrible choice for Samoa. Huddersfield Mark II.

I would go Wigan and Leeds and then somewhere else. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

23 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Where do you attract the new audiences from?

I thought IMG had been brought in for that...

https://www.img.com/sports/our-news/rugby-football-league-and-super-league-announce-strategic-partnership-with-img-to-transform-rugby-league

Coincidental it was Ken Davy who introduced IMG.

Going well,thus far.

Big city clubs,especially.One of whom effectively saved big club Hull FC and attract decent World Cup game attendances and Magic Weekend attendances.  

Next season is IMG’s first year. They’ve got a 12 year deal for a reason, this rusty old container ship is going to take a long time to turn around. But we have to start somewhere. 

[meast]

2 hours ago, redjonn said:

well at least one game up yon north surely...  

Its not surprising having x3 games not that far travel wise from each other. If you put all x3 games in London I'm sure not every game would be attended so well and according to many here London is a hotbed for international RL.

I am somewhat biased I must admit as I'm sick of always having to go to London for major sporting or cultural events with associated addition costs.

Yep have at least a game down South for sure but lets have at least one up here...

Its not a bad sales pitch to have our sport associated as having internationals easily accessible for all across the country not just London.

No games in the heartlands no, maybe North East?

The north isn't a hotbed of international RL, this have been proven over the last 2 years, it might be where the majority of professional clubs are based but there isn't any desire to support the  international game, time to move it around. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

4 hours ago, meast said:

Would the RFL be brave enough to take a series (possibly next year v Samoa) away from the northern heartlands?

There is very little appeal amongst heartland northerners for the national team anymore, so why not take 3 games around the country?

The argument that RL fans around the country can then show how to support the national team on their doorstep will be an interesting one I feel.

No doubt there will be many people within these heartlands who believe the games should be played in former pit and factory towns in northern England and we shouldn't let anyone else get involved etc.

But imagine a 3 test series with a game in say, the south east (London) South West (Bristol) and midlands( Coventry) for example, yes they might only attract 30,000 altogether but better to have 30,000 newish fans away from the heartlands than 30,000 in the heartlands right?

I'd be up for that, the international game just isn't popular up north it seems.

Sadly it doesn't appear that the RFL give a damn about it either.

Totally agree and spent a fair but talking about this on way home today (and over breakfast) 

All good suggestions above 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

42 minutes ago, meast said:

No games in the heartlands no, maybe North East?

 

I hate to harp on about this but Newcastle over the weekend is ridiculously expensive for hotels ...I'm talking 3 times as much as other comparable cities on Saturday night ....annoys me enough to say no to it ....also 1.5 hour hours extra travel for southern fans 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

56 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Nah, most Super League clubs are in small towns, so they’re fully included in my rant believe me. I’m fed up of “heartlands supporters” of all persuasions telling us we can’t do new things in order to attract a new audience, and should instead focus on “protecting the heartland” when it’s obvious that almost all heartland clubs’ fans are only interested in their club, not the wider game or the long-term welfare of the sport. 

We need new audiences, as the “traditional” ones don’t show up. Time to focus on new customers and let the old ones whinge to themselves if they don’t like some of the things we need to do in order to attract t those people. Because if we keep looking backwards based on what that lot say then in a few years we’re dead. 

First of all, I agree with much of this. Just for clarity though, do you mind listing some of the small town Superleague clubs fans included in your rant, you say most so half a dozen will suffice.  Anyway, moving on, there's nothing that would please me more than rugby league being played nationwide.  I wonder why of all the sports played ours is the one that isn't.  To me, it would appeal to plenty of kids or adults given the opportunity to play it. Then I think back to my old schooldays, in Widnes there must have been 11 or so junior schools playing the game.  These then fed into 5 senior schools. This would probably have been repeated in St Helens, Warrington, Leigh and Wigan. The senior schools in Widnes played rugby union, the PE teachers were rugby union players. It all kicked off. The teachers said they couldn't get any fixtures.  There must have been 25 plus schools in a 15 mile radius who could all turn out quality rugby league teams but they couldn't get any fixtures. I wonder why?  So, if it was like this here what the hell was it like further afield.  In discussions on other forums, when rugby league crops up the same things are always mentioned, they don't like the repetition (yet they enjoy darts and cricket), its British Bulldog ,etc, etc. So who's filling their heads with this, its like they are programmed to say it, could it even be Northern prejudice.  Why do some people appear to have such an intense dislike of rugby league, but most of all how do we overcome it.  Playing test matches around the country can't do any harm but they are inevitably one off's.  We then need somewhere for any possible players or spectators to go.  We need to somehow find a way to develop junior clubs in new areas.  We need to give kids the opportunity to play the game before someone gets to fill their heads with rubbish because I'm certain that given the chance some of them, be it Norwich ,Plymouth or Tunbridge Wells will enjoy it. In short we need to cultivate interest.  Now I know I'm not saying anything new and where we find the money to do it I don't know.  But we've tried sticking new clubs in areas with no interest and it doesn't work and I doubt IMG's deckchair reshuffle will have any great impact on what I'm sure both of us would like to see.  Sorry this is a bit long. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

First of all, I agree with much of this. Just for clarity though, do you mind listing some of the small town Superleague clubs fans included in your rant, you say most so half a dozen will suffice.  Anyway, moving on, there's nothing that would please me more than rugby league being played nationwide.  I wonder why of all the sports played ours is the one that isn't.  To me, it would appeal to plenty of kids or adults given the opportunity to play it. Then I think back to my old schooldays, in Widnes there must have been 11 or so junior schools playing the game.  These then fed into 5 senior schools. This would probably have been repeated in St Helens, Warrington, Leigh and Wigan. The senior schools in Widnes played rugby union, the PE teachers were rugby union players. It all kicked off. The teachers said they couldn't get any fixtures.  There must have been 25 plus schools in a 15 mile radius who could all turn out quality rugby league teams but they couldn't get any fixtures. I wonder why?  So, if it was like this here what the hell was it like further afield.  In discussions on other forums, when rugby league crops up the same things are always mentioned, they don't like the repetition (yet they enjoy darts and cricket), its British Bulldog ,etc, etc. So who's filling their heads with this, its like they are programmed to say it, could it even be Northern prejudice.  Why do some people appear to have such an intense dislike of rugby league, but most of all how do we overcome it.  Playing test matches around the country can't do any harm but they are inevitably one off's.  We then need somewhere for any possible players or spectators to go.  We need to somehow find a way to develop junior clubs in new areas.  We need to give kids the opportunity to play the game before someone gets to fill their heads with rubbish because I'm certain that given the chance some of them, be it Norwich ,Plymouth or Tunbridge Wells will enjoy it. In short we need to cultivate interest.  Now I know I'm not saying anything new and where we find the money to do it I don't know.  But we've tried sticking new clubs in areas with no interest and it doesn't work and I doubt IMG's deckchair reshuffle will have any great impact on what I'm sure both of us would like to see.  Sorry this is a bit long. 

You want a list?

Leigh; Wigan; Castleford; St Helens; Huddersfield; Warrington. A couple of others get off on a technicality. 

Before you start digging out population stats I’ll tell you now: Some of those are only “large” towns if you’ve lived your entire life in the North, so have different, limited reference points. To the general population of this country, trust me they’re not. 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

You want a list?

Leigh; Wigan; Castleford; St Helens; Huddersfield; Warrington. A couple of others get off on a technicality. 

Before you start digging out population stats I’ll tell you now: Some of those are only “large” towns if you’ve lived your entire life in the North, so have different, limited reference points. To the general population of this country, trust me they’re not. 

I have lived my entire life in the North thanks but my Geography knowledge is pretty good. Of the towns you listed I believe Warringtons population is in the region of 250,000 which by anyone's definition is not a small town.  That not withstanding I'm happy for you to call any of that lot a bunch of whingers who care nothing about the game and only about their own clubs.  Edit I overestimated Warringtons population. It seems the urban is  circa 211,000 with the town at 165,000. It appears that Warrington is approx the 10th largest town in the UK and 39th if you include the cities.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Jill Halfpenny fan
Additional text

[WN83]

8 hours ago, meast said:

Would the RFL be brave enough to take a series (possibly next year v Samoa) away from the northern heartlands?

There is very little appeal amongst heartland northerners for the national team anymore, so why not take 3 games around the country?

The argument that RL fans around the country can then show how to support the national team on their doorstep will be an interesting one I feel.

No doubt there will be many people within these heartlands who believe the games should be played in former pit and factory towns in northern England and we shouldn't let anyone else get involved etc.

But imagine a 3 test series with a game in say, the south east (London) South West (Bristol) and midlands( Coventry) for example, yes they might only attract 30,000 altogether but better to have 30,000 newish fans away from the heartlands than 30,000 in the heartlands right?

I'd be up for that, the international game just isn't popular up north it seems.

Sadly it doesn't appear that the RFL give a damn about it either.

I’d take the Samoa series on the road without a doubt. Too many heartlands fans know series against Tonga or Samoa are a ‘make do’ option because the Aussies and Kiwis can’t be bothered coming over. That wouldn’t really be an issue in London, Bristol, Newcastle etc. 

If the Samoa series is confirmed , I’d look at having a game in London, a game in the heartlands and then a game somewhere like Newcastle, Bristol, Midlands area etc. I’d probably go the Brentford stadium, Headingley and then somewhere like Leicester (either the Union ground or the King Power) as venues for the three games. I just can’t see that games at Brentford or Leicester would draw less than these first two Tonga games. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by WN83

[meast]

13 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I hate to harp on about this but Newcastle over the weekend is ridiculously expensive for hotels ...I'm talking 3 times as much as other comparable cities on Saturday night ....annoys me enough to say no to it ....also 1.5 hour hours extra travel for southern fans 

Which is why they should be across the country.

The England brand isn't going to grow by playing games in small post industrial towns in the north of England.

I think somewhere like Middlesbrough could be a good option as it covers fans from the heartlands, north east and possibly Cumbria.

One in the Midlands/South west and one in or around London?

Everyone then has the chance to see the national team.

But more importantly, the RFL needs to engage with those areas so people know there's an England game taking place.

Playing games at St Helens, Huddersfield and Leeds is just pure lazy and 'cantbearsedish'.

And we wonder why the fans can't be bothered.