2024 attendance thread

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

10,500 at the Hull - Leeds game. Or at least somewhere in the vicinity of the Hull - Leeds game

Lots of numbers I'm struggling to believe these days.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

Dolphins affected by the weekend closure of the train line to Brisbane. Its free travel with a game ticket but the replacement bus service from and to KippaRing is horrendous( and there is no parking around Suncorp).

Ahhh, good intel. I thought it was the most disappointing turnout of the round and maybe the season. Makes sense there was a good reason for it.

[Anita Bath]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Ahhh, good intel. I thought it was the most disappointing turnout of the round and maybe the season. Makes sense there was a good reason for it.

Still drew way more than the Reds who were playing the top of the league Aukland Blues on Saturday evening.

[phiggins]

11 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Lots of numbers I'm struggling to believe these days.

I get that most if not all figures announced are for tickets sold or issued and that there will be some discrepancy with season ticket holders not attending. But that would generally be in the low hundreds, if that. It's obviously difficult to tell without being in the ground, but the figure announced at Hull would seem to be thousands out

[Sports Prophet]

Considering attendances have an impact on grading, does anyone know how are the declared attendance figures actually verified?

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Considering attendances have an impact on grading, does anyone know how are the declared attendance figures actually verified?

Ad hoc audit. 

I take that to mean: we'll believe what you tell us but we reserve the right to occasionally say 'Really?'.

[sweaty craiq]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Considering attendances have an impact on grading, does anyone know how are the declared attendance figures actually verified?

Income and vat would be a good clue

 

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

I get that most if not all figures announced are for tickets sold or issued and that there will be some discrepancy with season ticket holders not attending. But that would generally be in the low hundreds, if that. It's obviously difficult to tell without being in the ground, but the figure announced at Hull would seem to be thousands out

I would suggest normal conditions 10-20% of ST holders cant attend any given game, when your team is getting butchered that will increase as it will on strange days or times. Folk go on holiday in the season, have family events, clashes with golf/cricket when not Friday night plus we as a family know that we will miss 2/3 games a year due to the above but want to support our club via the ST and knowing we can be where we want to be - many others will be like ourselves

[JonM]

12 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Lots of numbers I'm struggling to believe these days.

The break points in the attendance grading are 1500, 3000 and 7500 aren't they? The likes of Hull & Leeds (just picking a couple of the clubs where scepticism has been expressed on this thread about the announced figures) have nothing to gain by putting out inflated figures - they're way over the bar. 

If I was auditing, I'd be looking at the ones who're a bit marginal for hitting the 7500 - Leigh & Castleford perhaps? And maybe the ones who might be around the 3000 - Bradford, Featherstone?

[sweaty craiq]

2 minutes ago, JonM said:

The break points in the attendance grading are 1500, 3000 and 7500 aren't they? The likes of Hull & Leeds (just picking a couple of the clubs where scepticism has been expressed on this thread about the announced figures) have nothing to gain by putting out inflated figures - they're way over the bar. 

If I was auditing, I'd be looking at the ones who're a bit marginal for hitting the 7500 - Leigh & Castleford perhaps? And maybe the ones who might be around the 3000 - Bradford, Featherstone?

Leighs average gate THIS SEASON with Salford/Wire and Saints still to come to LSV is close to 9000 with only Wigan bringing a big following and 3/4 defeats

[Sports Prophet]

25 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Income and vat would be a good clue

 

IMG - “Your income reflects ticket sales of approximately 7,208 in round 4, yet your club claims an attendance figure of 9,467. Can you explain this?”

Said Club - “oh absolutely, in round 4 we had our schools family programme where we gave away 5,000 GA tickets”.

IMG - “Aaaahhhh, ok, thanks for the confirmation. I assume this was the same for Rounds 7, 9, 13, 14, 15, 18 and 22?”

Said Club - “Yes, that’s right”

IMG - “Excellent work. Well the good news is, those higher attendances, which you announced in a batch after other clubs announced theirs weekly, means you have been graded X and are included in SL for 2025. Congratulations.”

Edited April 29, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[phiggins]

20 minutes ago, JonM said:

The break points in the attendance grading are 1500, 3000 and 7500 aren't they? The likes of Hull & Leeds (just picking a couple of the clubs where scepticism has been expressed on this thread about the announced figures) have nothing to gain by putting out inflated figures - they're way over the bar. 

If I was auditing, I'd be looking at the ones who're a bit marginal for hitting the 7500 - Leigh & Castleford perhaps? And maybe the ones who might be around the 3000 - Bradford, Featherstone?

Leigh have no chance of hitting the 7500 mark for this year's calculations, over a 3 year average. But will have a good chance of doing it next year if they stay in SL for 2025. Cas are borderline for the three year average I believe.

[M j M]

36 minutes ago, JonM said:

The break points in the attendance grading are 1500, 3000 and 7500 aren't they? The likes of Hull & Leeds (just picking a couple of the clubs where scepticism has been expressed on this thread about the announced figures) have nothing to gain by putting out inflated figures - they're way over the bar.

Who's queried Leeds' figures?

From all the home games I've been at this year (I've missed two I think) the announced attendances have looked pretty much where I expected them to be looking around the ground.

[JonM]

2 minutes ago, M j M said:

Who's queried Leeds' figures?

From all the home games I've been at this year (I've missed two I think) the announced attendances have looked pretty much where I expected them to be looking around the ground.

Posters on this thread. As I say, I see no reason to doubt the figures.

[JonM]

36 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Leighs average gate THIS SEASON with Salford/Wire and Saints still to come to LSV is close to 9000 with only Wigan bringing a big following and 3/4 defeats

Leigh's crowd figures have been fantastic, but as phiggins points out, the year in the Championship is going to bring the three-year average down significantly.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

4 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Ad hoc audit. 

I take that to mean: we'll believe what you tell us but we reserve the right to occasionally say 'Really?'.

I thought they had a guesswork department.

[sentoffagain2]

3 hours ago, JonM said:

Leigh's crowd figures have been fantastic, but as phiggins points out, the year in the Championship is going to bring the three-year average down significantly.

  To be fair you would have to double the championship average to be comparable to SL.ie if Leigh averaged 4000 in the Championship it would equate to a SL average of 8000.But IMG wont allow that.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Considering attendances have an impact on grading, does anyone know how are the declared attendance figures actually verified?

In the UK at least, 'elf and safety reports have to be submitted saying how many people were present. 

Essentially the clubs can say publicly what they want as they always have for their own reasons (bigger crowd numbers are quite literally popular), that might not necessarily reflect the numbers being put into the official private systems...

[daz39]

i hope IMG get the % of empty seats v full ones mixed up for us when dishing the points out!!

[Leyther_Matt]

10 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Income and vat would be a good clue

 

Doesn’t need to be anywhere near as Magnum PI as that. Each club is legally obliged to be able to provide the attendance and ticket sales, and the RFL already routinely receive this information every week via the ground safety officers. 

[Archie Gordon]

10 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Doesn’t need to be anywhere near as Magnum PI as that. Each club is legally obliged to be able to provide the attendance and ticket sales, and the RFL already routinely receive this information every week via the ground safety officers. 

So why aren't these figures used in the gradings? Why use "ad hoc audits" instead?

[sweaty craiq]

19 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  To be fair you would have to double the championship average to be comparable to SL.ie if Leigh averaged 4000 in the Championship it would equate to a SL average of 8000.But IMG wont allow that.

Wakey have the advantage of this in 2024 by basically giving tickets away but keeping the crowds high, much higher than last 2 years of SL. 

[sentoffagain2]

I just think that Championship and League 1 teams are at a distinct disadvantage when grading points are given to present SL teams.

[dboy]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

So why aren't these figures used in the gradings? Why use "ad hoc audits" instead?

The figures are used, but they are checked with ad hoc audits.

[dboy]

25 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Wakey have the advantage of this in 2024 by basically giving tickets away but keeping the crowds high, much higher than last 2 years of SL. 

That's a myth.

The club announced how many were sold and how many were kids tickets.

And don't forget, no matter how many tickets you "give away", only the people in attendance are counted.

Also, there's no "advantage" to attendances in the Championship, as away support is generally non-existent.