Rob Burrow Award - no more Harry Sunderland Trophy

[gingerjon]

Confirmed on Sky

 

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Confirmed on Sky

 

Fantastic news.

[Richard de la Riviere]

Great decision 

[Odsal Outlaw]

A good decision to rename it. I wonder whether they should have announced this as the plan for 2025 and stated this will be the last HS trophy so they could have formally closed that out at this years GF in the right way. But actually they could maybe find a way to do that so the HS trophy goes out in the right way and hands over to RB

[Adelaide Tiger]

[Red Willow]

I am probably going to be on my own for this but I am really conflicted on this.

 

[The 4 of Us]

2 hours ago, Red Willow said:

I am probably going to be on my own for this but I am really conflicted on this.

 

I can imagine that quite a few are, but I suspect that with a new audience to win, renaming the trophy after modern giant will be widely popular and it should be. To give relevance to the game now, I don’t current or future players could have a more appropriate or higher accolade. 

It’s a yes from me. 

My only reticence is that I think Superleague could have had it’s own version of this.

Perhaps we need to wait a little longer for the Burrow-Sinfield Trophy? 

Edited February 7 by The 4 of Us

[gingerjon]

15 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

I am probably going to be on my own for this but I am really conflicted on this.

 

Removing Harry Sunderland seems like the right thing to do and Burrow is a decent replacement. It’s not a decision without flaws - and I am more on the fence than I thought I would be - but I think it is, overall, a good call.

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, Red Willow said:

I am probably going to be on my own for this but I am really conflicted on this.

Same here. I absolutely do not dispute the merit and the discussion about Harry Sunderland has been done to death on here, and locked.

However I'm more concerned about the process. There are only so many awards to go round and changing these to current, contemporary figures in the heat of the moment may not be the best decision (not saying this is the case here).

I think if we are going down this path then things like MOM awards should perhaps have a 10 year rotation.

[muckymunksy]

Jacob Miller the first winner mark my words. 

[The 4 of Us]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Same here. I absolutely do not dispute the merit and the discussion about Harry Sunderland has been done to death on here, and locked.

However I'm more concerned about the process. There are only so many awards to go round and changing these to current, contemporary figures in the heat of the moment may not be the best decision (not saying this is the case here).

I think if we are going down this path then things like MOM awards should perhaps have a 10 year rotation.

Appreciate the sentiment, but not sure that there’s been another RL player in the past 30 years that has had a wider impact which transends the game and therefore to a much wider audience that Rob Burrows and Kevin Sinfield. I suspect the Burrow’s Trophy will do the sport well for more than a couple of generations. 

Edited February 7 by The 4 of Us

[sentoffagain2]

             Many younger supporters will not know who Harry Sunderland was so to change to the Rob Burrow award seems like a fitting tribute.But please leave the Lance Todd trophy alone for the man of match in the Rugby League Cup Final.

[Worzel]

Harry Sunderland was always an odd choice anyway. Achieved a lot in his administrative career, but much of that was in Australia or at least involved international rugby league (yes I know he pretty much nudged the start of rugby league in France)

It does make more sense to have a domestic legend as the name of the SL man-of-the-match, Burrow's a good pick in that context - a unique combination of genuine on-field Grand Final legacy and important off-field resonance.  

[Worzel]

39 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

I can imagine that quite a few are, but I suspect that with a new audience to win, renaming the trophy after modern giant will be widely popular and it should be. To give relevance to the game now, I don’t current or future players could have a more appropriate or higher accolade. 

It’s a yes from me. 

My only reticence is that I think Superleague could have had it’s own version of this.

Perhaps we need to wait a little longer for the Burrows-Sinfield Trophy? 

 

This is a great idea: Recognising the spirit of friendship and mutual support that is the heart of what a lot of rugby league means would have been even more powerful than recognising Rob's individual achievements and his own struggle.  

Feels like an opportunity missed maybe?

 

[RigbyLuger]

27 minutes ago, Damien said:

Same here. I absolutely do not dispute the merit and the discussion about Harry Sunderland has been done to death on here, and locked.

However I'm more concerned about the process. There are only so many awards to go round and changing these to current, contemporary figures in the heat of the moment may not be the best decision (not saying this is the case here).

I think if we are going down this path then things like MOM awards should perhaps have a 10 year rotation.

Unlike the Man of Steel, of which Prescott was never close to being the best player in the comp, Burrow is one who you do associate with the Grand Final, so at least it is fitting. (And I know you've said this might not be the case here!)

[Damien]

25 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Appreciate the sentiment, but not sure that there’s been another RL player in the past 30 years that has had a wider impact which transends the game and therefore to a much wider audience that Rob Burrows and Kevin Sinfield. I suspect the Burrows Trophy will do the sport well for more than a couple of generations. 

I'm talking about the principle generally. How well does Steve Prescott resonate with younger people these days?

[glossop saint]

29 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Appreciate the sentiment, but not sure that there’s been another RL player in the past 30 years that has had a wider impact which transends the game and therefore to a much wider audience that Rob Burrows and Kevin Sinfield. I suspect the Burrows Trophy will do the sport well for more than a couple of generations. 

He can't have had that much of an impact, you still don't know his name!

[glossop saint]

I don't disagree with the renaming but it doesn't quite sit comfortably with how it's been done. I'd have had 1 last HS Trophy with a big fanfare before then making it the RB Trophy. If they weren't going to do that then I'd have maybe done it a bit closer to the game itself.  I know we're well into the countdown for the season start now but it just seems odd timing. I wonder if there is an element of wanting to do it sooner rather than later as we don't know what the future holds. 

[M j M]

Agree with the above, there doesn't seem to be any real logic or clear process about how these things are done. Having one last year of HS would have been nice so there can beta formal acknowledgment of him for one last time rather than escorting him out of the back door like this. In that case the right thing to do would have been to announce this much later in the season.

So I'm also conflicted but at least Burrow is associated very clearly with the event and the award so his name being there is definitely not out of place.

[Tommygilf]

There may also be a very sad impetus to doing this now rather than waiting 9 months.

Edited February 7 by Tommygilf

[Click]

1 hour ago, The 4 of Us said:

I can imagine that quite a few are, but I suspect that with a new audience to win, renaming the trophy after modern giant will be widely popular and it should be. To give relevance to the game now, I don’t current or future players could have a more appropriate or higher accolade. 

It’s a yes from me. 

My only reticence is that I think Superleague could have had it’s own version of this.

Perhaps we need to wait a little longer for the Burrows-Sinfield Trophy? 

Please, lets not copy the NRL's trophy. 

[glossop saint]

26 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There may also be a very sad impetus to doing this now rather than waiting 9 months.

I've got to admit that was my first reaction.

[Martyn Sadler]

27 minutes ago, M j M said:

Agree with the above, there doesn't seem to be any real logic or clear process about how these things are done. Having one last year of HS would have been nice so there can beta formal acknowledgment of him for one last time rather than escorting him out of the back door like this. In that case the right thing to do would have been to announce this much later in the season.

So I'm also conflicted but at least Burrow is associated very clearly with the event and the award so his name being there is definitely not out of place.

I've argued on this forum previously that we shouldn't change the name of our leading awards and this announcement has taken me by surprise even though it was proposed by the RLWBA, of which I am a member.

I agree with you that Burrow is a worthy name to attach to a trophy for the player of the match in the Grand Final, although I would have named it the Burrow-Sinfield Trophy in that case, because those two names are inextricably linked in the public consciousness for obvious reasons and both of them won the HS Trophy twice (as did Danny McGuire).

Harry Sunderland's name was proposed by the Rugby League Writers' Association to be attached to the man of the match award in the Championship Grand Final after his death in 1964 and it was first awarded in 1965, with Terry Fogerty becoming the first winner.

When the Championship Final in its old form was ended in 1973, with the advent of two divisions, that would have been a possible time to retire Harry Sunderland's name from the award rather than transferring it to what was effectively a new competition.

Similarly, when the Super League Grand Final was established, that would have been another opportunity to retire the Harry Sunderland Trophy.

But there is no obvious logic to doing this now and the announcement sheds little light on the decision.

There is no indication that Harry Sunderland's descendants were consulted about this, although perhaps they were.

I agree with you that if you are going to retire an award, you do it with a fanfare and create a handover scenario from one name to the other.

But as it is, the decision looks a very clumsy one to me.

[iffleyox]

I'm a bit conflicted by this too. It's very difficult to even write it, especially given the obvious and some of the most recent posts in the thread, but as a general rule I'm not sure I agree with anything being named after anyone (not just in sport) until they're no longer around. 

This is absolutely, categorically nothing against RB - I'm sitting here and can see his autobiography across the room.

[The 4 of Us]

1 hour ago, glossop saint said:

He can't have had that much of an impact, you still don't know his name!

Grrr - edited !