IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[The Blues Ox]

I do think its a great idea having the almost final results before the Grand Finals, last thing we would want is the results after the finals and say Cas had lost in the Grand Final they then find out that winning the Grand Final would have kept them in SL, they would be gutted.

[marklaspalmas]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Action like telling them they have not met the required standards across a range of criteria and so can't be promoted?

I think that would be the ultimate action. Like a team that's spent 25 years of good TV money on importing players whilst playing in a dilapidated stadium in front of suboptimal crowds in a hotbed area of the sport. That sort of thing.

Until we reach that drastic point of extracting the urine completely, I'd prefer all clubs being clear about what needs to be done to maintain levels they've achieved onfield.

That way the sport can avoid the charade of playing a season full of matches before tossing out a club they known a year in advance is going to be tossed out.

[gingerjon]

Just now, marklaspalmas said:

I think that would be the ultimate action. Like a team that's spent 25 years of good TV money on importing players whilst playing in a dilapidated stadium in front of suboptimal crowds in a hotbed area of the sport. That sort of thing.

Until we reach that drastic point of extracting the urine completely, I'd prefer all clubs being clear about what needs to be done to maintain levels they've achieved onfield.

That way the sport can avoid the charade of playing a season full of matches before tossing out a club they known a year in advance is going to be tossed out.

I think we do broadly agree that rigidly applied standards based P&R would be the ideal situation but we are nowhere near that happening - not least because we'd have a top tier of about five teams if we really did enforce standards.

So this is the system. It's been voted for by the clubs and everything. It's now about how you make this system work as well as it can. Everyone can shut up about 2x10s, middle 8s, Mega Conferences and everything else for at least a few years.

[dboy]

2 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I think that would be the ultimate action. Like a team that's spent 25 years of good TV money on importing players whilst playing in a dilapidated stadium in front of suboptimal crowds in a hotbed area of the sport. That sort of thing.

Until we reach that drastic point of extracting the urine completely, I'd prefer all clubs being clear about what needs to be done to maintain levels they've achieved onfield.

That way the sport can avoid the charade of playing a season full of matches before tossing out a club they known a year in advance is going to be tossed out.

You've got to let it go!

It was good of Fev to underline the unfairness of the best team over a season not getting promoted, through their winning of the league by 22 points and then losing in the play-offs.

They really made their point.

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I think we do broadly agree that rigidly applied standards based P&R would be the ideal situation but we are nowhere near that happening - not least because we'd have a top tier of about five teams if we really did enforce standards.

So this is the system. It's been voted for by the clubs and everything. It's now about how you make this system work as well as it can. Everyone can shut up about 2x10s, middle 8s, Mega Conferences and everything else for at least a few years.

Aye. Let's hope your wildly overoptimistic last line works for at least a few months to give us a bit of a break to watch some rugby league.

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

You've got to let it go!

It was good of Fev to underline the unfairness of the best team over a season not getting promoted, through their winning of the league by 22 points and then losing in the play-offs.

They really made their point.

Wow, that is some awkward shoehorning you're doing. I'd best leave you to it. 

[dboy]

4 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Wow, that is some awkward shoehorning you're doing. I'd best leave you to it. 

You've got to let it go.

[DemonUK]

I know this has probably done to death before on here, but the reality to me is horrifying for our sport.

1)  For approximately 96% of our clubs the 'On The Field Performance' contribution totals LESS than 20% of the total

2) I have noticed a number of clubs announce million pound investments at the beginning of this season (some would say not a bad thing, but is it just to sit on the books?)

3) I would suggest that at least 50% of available points can be 'manipulated', (see point 2 above as an example)

I could go on but I thnk i have put across my own thoughts on this subject.  The result of this is you find clubs virtually admitting they don't care how they do on the field as they think by  concentrating 100% on off field performance they are almost certain they will be guaranteed a SL place.  London on the other hand are not throwing good money after bad as they are virtually sure they won't be in SL in 2025.  Look at Bradford after the last few years of mid table championship performances they managed to be up in 14th or 15th position only a small fraction of a point below being given a SL place.

I did think that the Grading system would be tweaked a little but nothing has been said. 

Is this still sport?  I don't know.  What do I think will happen a week or two before the end of the 2024 season?  In a word 'carnage'.

 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, DemonUK said:

I know this has probably done to death before on here, but the reality to me is horrifying for our sport.

1)  For approximately 96% of our clubs the 'On The Field Performance' contribution totals LESS than 20% of the total

2) I have noticed a number of clubs announce million pound investments at the beginning of this season (some would say not a bad thing, but is it just to sit on the books?)

3) I would suggest that at least 50% of available points can be 'manipulated', (see point 2 above as an example)

I could go on but I thnk i have put across my own thoughts on this subject.  The result of this is you find clubs virtually admitting they don't care how they do on the field as they think by  concentrating 100% on off field performance they are almost certain they will be guaranteed a SL place.  London on the other hand are not throwing good money after bad as they are virtually sure they won't be in SL in 2025.  Look at Bradford after the last few years of mid table championship performances they managed to be up in 14th or 15th position only a small fraction of a point below being given a SL place.

I did think that the Grading system would be tweaked a little but nothing has been said. 

Is this still sport?  I don't know.  What do I think will happen a week or two before the end of the 2024 season?  In a word 'carnage'.

 

It will be very interesting, at what point this season are the grading points of each club going to be disclosed, should it be as early as possible say 3 months prior to the end or will it be after the season is completed, will all clubs have all the relevant information to submit especially financial not all clubs end of year figures are at the same time, and what if it comes down to a fraction of a point where the finishing position could mean SL status or not.

You say 'carnage' Demon are you expecting if that fraction of a point comes into play, then the club(s) involved will obviously contest it? and what if that is by legal process how long could that take, maybe impacting in the start of the '25 season.

Edited April 8 by Harry Stottle

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

I'm looking forward to the end of the season when 14 into 12 doesn't go.  That will be funnier than watching Hull try to defend their line.

[The Blues Ox]

2 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

I'm looking forward to the end of the season when 14 into 12 doesn't go.  That will be funnier than watching Hull try to defend their line.

As the young uns say, I actually LOL'd. I'm the same I really can't wait, it is going to be a total mess when it comes to the announcements, threats of legal action, none of the clubs involved been able to plan for the following season. I would hate to see it but the fact Leigh could drop out of the top division is funny as anything(not for their fans), we can have a forward thinking progressive club been booted from the league in favor of Toulouse or Bradford would just be the funniest thing and totally the opposite of what the new system was supposedly brought in to do.

The RFL if they have anything about them really need to be planning the TV build up for how these things will be announced. They could draw it out for a week or two to increase viewers and like I have said before, they seriously could do with bringing in Ant and Dec to make the announcements.

[The Blues Ox]

8 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

I'm looking forward to the end of the season when 14 into 12 doesn't go.  That will be funnier than watching Hull try to defend

Missed an opportunity......FYP

[sam4731]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It will be very interesting, at what point this season are the grading points of each club going to be disclosed, should it be as early as possible say 3 months prior to the end or will it be after the season is completed, will all clubs have all the relevant information to submit especially financial not all clubs end of year figures are at the same time, and what if it comes down to a fraction of a point where the finishing position could mean SL status or not.

You say 'carnage' Demon are you expecting if that fraction of a point comes into play, then the club(s) involved will obviously contest it? and what if that is by legal process how long could that take, maybe impacting in the start of the '25 season.

It's funny isn't it that some sports fans are against technology in sport because you lose that instant celebration moment after you've scored while it gets checked for maybe a couple of minutes. Whereas we could be in a situation that a fan might have to wait until a couple of months after the season to find out what division they'll be in for the next year.

[phiggins]

It has been done to death, but I won't tire of complaining about it. Regardless of views on P&R in general, I struggle to find any redeeming features of this particular system.

Metrics points are flawed, scoring bands too wide, apart from in the performance pillar where the bands are so narrow it makes on field stuff virtually irrelevant. The grading handbook specifies a minimum standard for stadia, and awards half a point (i think) for failing to meet them.

On top of that, the execution of the indicative grades was a mess. It took till December for the RFL to rule on an appeal that would've decided who out of Cas or Leigh would be relegated, had it been a live run. To go ahead and make this system live, seems strange. 

It could get very messy, and if it does, will not be good for the sport.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

34 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

The RFL if they have anything about them really need to be planning the TV build up for how these things will be announced. They could draw it out for a week or two to increase viewers and like I have said before, they seriously could do with bringing in Ant and Dec to make the announcements.

Hull, its not you, Leeds its not you, Castleford it could be you.

 

[Tommygilf]

45 minutes ago, phiggins said:

It has been done to death, but I won't tire of complaining about it. Regardless of views on P&R in general, I struggle to find any redeeming features of this particular system.

Metrics points are flawed, scoring bands too wide, apart from in the performance pillar where the bands are so narrow it makes on field stuff virtually irrelevant. The grading handbook specifies a minimum standard for stadia, and awards half a point (i think) for failing to meet them.

On top of that, the execution of the indicative grades was a mess. It took till December for the RFL to rule on an appeal that would've decided who out of Cas or Leigh would be relegated, had it been a live run. To go ahead and make this system live, seems strange. 

It could get very messy, and if it does, will not be good for the sport.

In fairness, that last point is the purpose of a trial run...

[phiggins]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In fairness, that last point is the purpose of a trial run...

Yes, and thank goodness it was a trial run. But the trial run couldn't really have gone any worse. It certainly didn't give me any confidence that the first live run will go well, or that the system and processes behind it are ready for a live run. We will see.

[glossop saint]

1 minute ago, phiggins said:

Yes, and thank goodness it was a trial run. But the trial run couldn't really have gone any worse. It certainly didn't give me any confidence that the first live run will go well, or that the system and processes behind it are ready for a live run. We will see.

Has any feedback been given as to how IMG and the RFL felt like the trial went? As far as I know, no adjustments have been made.

[DemonUK]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In fairness, that last point is the purpose of a trial run...

I have no problem with the trial run, that is the correct way to bring something in.  Have you seen anywhere that the IMG grading areas are going to be tweaked.  Also do you agree that large areas of the grading system can be manipulated for gain.  RL is a sport and success should be rewarded, but when 75-80% of the points being awarded for off the field 'achievements'(?) it is miles away from being a 'sport' anymore.  I am sure Wigan are really pleased for Leigh that they get exactly the same number of 'catchment area' points for example. Cas have suddenly got lots to spend, but none of it is being spent to improve on field performance for the fans, but I am sure they will love their new padded seats.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Whilst IMG are being labelled for being responsible for this grading criteria, isn't this a watered down version of what they actually suggested? Wasn't their recommendation basically a return to licensing with no P&R, whereas this version has been designed after feedback from the clubs? In which case, the clubs are as much if not more to blame than IMG for this new system. I may well have got this wrong, so happy to be corrected.

[Archie Gordon]

The tragedy is that there is an easy fix to make everyone happy. A grade clubs protected; B grade clubs can go up or down via P&R. Clubs can still aim for A and get precisely the same reward, no short-term tinkering/gaming required by B clubs, no appeals holding the system up in October, excitement and at the bottom of SL and top of Champ. Win-win.

[JohnM]

Clearly, I don't agree with the content and opinion of the opening post and poster. On-field performance is DIRECTLY related to the grading criteria that the professional game has voted for. 

Edited April 8 by JohnM

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Hull, its not you, Leeds its not you, Castleford it could be you.

 

Or get Sugar to do it. Four club chairmen sat in front of him and one will be fired!

[sentoffagain2]

     I wish The Championship and League 1 clubs had the b-lls to make a clean break away.For what little money they now get from SL if they can't stand on their own two feet without it the games not worth supporting.

[JohnM]

There's a good reason they won't  break away, though. They'd not survive. It's their choice, though.