Catalans

[whatmichaelsays]

18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

First question why should it cost more to pay for SL clubs to go there to France than to pay for Championship clubs to go, Toulouse have been paying the travel costs for a good number of years now

Toulouse having a poor deal "for a good number of years" is not / should not be a justification on imposing a poor deal on Catalans. 

The justification for Toulouse is, at the very list, somewhat more justifiable given the range of finances at Championship clubs. But we're supposedly dealing with elite clubs here, who should be generating sufficient revenues for a relatively straightforward overseas trip. These same clubs seem to have little trouble financing warm-weather camps at La Santa or Browns each January. 
 

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Secondly, no one has mentioned that it could be more than just one trip for any unlucky SL club(s), with the normal home /away fixture, loop fixture, and it could also be plus a Challenge Cup tie and Play Off Fixture and that could be compounded if Toulouse make SL.

There was previously a collective purchasing method to address this. Essentially the clubs contributed equally to a pot and their travel was arranged from an RFL-appointed travel agent. It meant that those clubs who only played in France once, or only played in the cheaper winter months, paid a little bit more to subsidise those who travelled twice or travelled in peak season. 

Over time, clubs dropped out of this arrangement to do their own thing. Some clubs now charter their own flights and run an "in and out" approach, rather than staying overnight and travelling on scheduled flights, as they feel that is best. Leeds, for example, do that as a corporate trip where the sponsors essentially pay to cover the costs. 

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Thirdly, how much does everyone think like I do that this is pressure being put on Rohdri Lloydd and his team by SL clubs for the lack of obtaining a better TV contract, the clubs are now substantially down (800k per season) on what they were recieving just 3 years ago, this present contract finishes at the end of 2026 do they have any confidence that RL Com will when around the negotiating table with Sky get it increased then? Just a thought.

There should be pressure on RLC to increase the value of the broadcast and commercial deal - and that includes the broadcast and commercial deals in France. That's their responsibility. 

We need to drop this notion that the onus is on Catalans to bring a TV deal and commercial partners - that is the responsibility of RLC and Catalans are a club, not a branch office of RLC. 

[Gav Wilson]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A place in SL is worth c£10m a year to Catalans. Not the other way round.

I'd argue its both ways, to be fair.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

I understand your point, but they have unreasonable barrier after barrier put in front of them by the other clubs. This is meant to be the European Super League, yet the one club not from a thin strip of the north of England have to pay everyone else’s travel and now officials costs to get there. It’s not becoming of a professional sport. 

Other overseas clubs have paid travel costs for years. Catalans have been the outlier in that they have received c£30m from the UK TV deal. 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to not like this approach - but it is also important to remember that this means that they just won't receive quite as much from the UK TV deal. 

This really does go back to the original participation agreement, and the bigger piece being the lack of being able to make the most of any commercial opportunities at all. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

I'd argue its both ways, to be fair.

You think £10m of value is added to SL each year by Catalans' presence? 

Come on Gav, you know that simply isn't true.

[Gav Wilson]

Just now, Dave T said:

You think £10m of value is added to SL each year by Catalans' presence? 

Come on Gav, you know that simply isn't true.

Obviously not *literally* £10m but if Catalans withdrew and SL retracted to an exclusively M62 competition, the next TV deal would see the return of a part time league, and ultimately irrelevance.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Obviously not *literally* £10m but if Catalans withdrew and SL retracted to an exclusively M62 competition, the next TV deal would see the return of a part time league, and ultimately irrelevance.

I'm a huge fans of Catalans being in SL, but I don't see this outcome at all.

[Gav Wilson]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I'm a huge fans of Catalans being in SL, but I don't see this outcome at all.

Hopefully we never find out!

[whatmichaelsays]

33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

This really does go back to the original participation agreement, and the bigger piece being the lack of being able to make the most of any commercial opportunities at all. 

Agree with this - when you look the presence of Catalans pragmatically, it is an enormously successful club and one that brings a lot of intangible benefits to the Super League but when you look at the business case (and I think Guasch himself accepts this), it's a less convincing argument - certainly a less measurable one. 

The history of RL geographic expansion just feels like the analogy of a dog chasing a car - we don't know why we're doing it, we're unlikely to actually catch it and, even if we did, we've no idea what we're going to do with it. With the Catalans, we achieved a degree of expansion but, whether it is through a lack of effort, resource, talent, willing or product, the sport has failed to capitalise. 

My issue with this particular situation is whether it should be Catalans who are forced to pay for that failure. The failure to secure commercial and broadcast contracts from Europe is a collective failure on each and every stakeholder of RL Commercial or Super League Europe before it, not just Catalans. That includes some very vocal club chairmen who are very happy to throw that failure at the Catalan's door, rather than having the self-awareness or stones to be "humble" about their role in that failure. 

Edited October 1 by whatmichaelsays

[Phil]

So if I was Guasch I’d buy a small basic hotel, that’s the accommodation for visitors sorted.

I’m sure there are various imaginative solutions 

[Agbrigg]

Doesn't seem long ago since many super league clubs were demanding that they should be allowed to spend more by increasing the salary cap and how it was so unfair because it was holding them back. 

I wonder if some of them are now bleating on about how unfair it is that they should have to pay for their Catalan away fixture.

Edited October 1 by Agbrigg

[Worzel]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Who have you got in mind Worzel?

I think you can name the small Super League clubs who would like Catalans out of the league, through a combination of jealousy that they have built a better organisation in 20 years than they have in 120, and the gut-wrenching idiocy of thinking that the Dragons somehow “cost” us money. Instead it’s those weak clubs that actually cost us money, by making our league less competitive which devalues our TV rights. 

It’s time to stop dropping down to the lowest common denominator, and being held back by the weak. Let them find their own level. 
 

Edited October 1 by Worzel
Typo

[The Daddy]

Uk SL clubs trying to think of more ways to mess the sport up and make it even more parochial than it already is 

[Worzel]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

Other overseas clubs have paid travel costs for years. Catalans have been the outlier in that they have received c£30m from the UK TV deal. 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to not like this approach - but it is also important to remember that this means that they just won't receive quite as much from the UK TV deal. 

This really does go back to the original participation agreement, and the bigger piece being the lack of being able to make the most of any commercial opportunities at all. 

Catalans create 1/12th of the value, and receive 1/12th of the revenue the clubs share. They have higher travel costs than the other clubs already, so are already disadvantaged.

This small-minded thinking is incompetent. Do Sparta Prague have to pay Bayern Munich’s travel costs in the Champions League? Just embarrassing, reductive stuff. 

[Agbrigg]

6 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I think you can name the small Super League clubs who would like Catalans out of the league

 

Give us a clue and name the worst culprits.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Worzel said:

Catalans create 1/12th of the value, and receive 1/12th of the revenue the clubs share. They have higher travel costs than the other clubs already, so are already disadvantaged.

This small-minded thinking is incompetent. Do Sparta Prague have to pay Bayern Munich’s travel costs in the Champions League? Just embarrassing, reductive stuff. 

I'm not sure football is the best example here, they certainly don't have a level playing field of central funding.

[RayCee]

The issue is money and in RL isn't that always the case? SL clubs are feeling the pinch and it looks like that the situation will only deteriorate in future years.

RL needs financially robust owners of clubs that can afford yearly losses. RL doesn't attract them. It's a case of trying to survive and desperately looking for ways to do that. Bernaud Gausch realises they have had it pretty good and accepts they need to do something but the balance has swung too far the other way. 

[Worzel]

13 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Give us a clue and name the worst culprits.

I don’t think it’s necessary. 

[Fevrover]

8 hours ago, roughyed8 said:

In that case every SL club should pay Catalans travel when they come to the UK!

Don't hold yer breath,too much self interest. 

[sheddingswasus]

Unbelievable!  We are just such a backwater thinking sport. These are the same clubs that want a closed shop of ask and as few clubs as possible do they can get a bigger cut of the pie. As I said unbelievable!

[RLX111]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

So if I was Guasch I’d buy a small basic hotel, that’s the accommodation for visitors sorted.

I’m sure there are various imaginative solutions 

Next to the airport -as ground on the other side of the large roundabout .Perfect for supporters at better rates than Spain !

French referees etc -Yes same argument as Wiganer refereeing Wigan!

get a jet -home and away solved

Let Toulouse  buy in  to said jet home and away

Do Ryanair sponsor anything?

I am sure the Boss has things up his sleeve ,

 

 

 

Edited October 1 by RLX111

[ATLANTISMAN]

This is a total DISGRACE and everyone involved in this decision should be totally ashamed.

This could effect the maire building the new stand if the club folds over this everyone is extremely upset

TV deal in France as i have said before it will never happen at best production costs.

I am suspicious at who is actually calling the shots here who is actually running the game? 5 SL clubs are anti Dragons and 6 pro one of those is now out the Broncos with all respect if i was the club i would book the cheapest Ryan Air flights from a regional airport as far away from the M62 as possible and put everyone up in a camping site.

Want to save money 

* Get rid of the RL Council and all the hangers on for a start that's 800K odd a year 

Who appointed these muppets 

Disgraceful 

If anyone with half a brain thinks SKY will offer a larger TV deal without London and the Dragons in 2027 they are seriously in need of a shrink.

 

 

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, Agbrigg said:

Give us a clue and name the worst culprits.

No 1 is Huddersfield Giants that's for certain 

[dealwithit]

It’s another flawed decision by RLC. 

1. There’s no indication of a basement or ceiling price for travel. Is Catalans organising, reimbursing, or what? How do you stop either party taking advantage?

2. There’s no discretion or expectation as to what these new savings are to be spent on by clubs. Say each club saves €40k, where does this go? There’s no strategy behind it.
 

3. What resources are RLC using to get a french broadcast deal or sponsorships? ROI is poor. Why do people have jobs? Where’s the accountability?

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

I understand your point, but they have unreasonable barrier after barrier put in front of them by the other clubs. This is meant to be the European Super League, yet the one club not from a thin strip of the north of England have to pay everyone else’s travel and now officials costs to get there. It’s not becoming of a professional sport. 

Please explain what these multiple barriers are Eddie?

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

So if I was Guasch I’d buy a small basic hotel, that’s the accommodation for visitors sorted.

I’m sure there are various imaginative solutions 

Perhaps they could do a Toronto and put the players and staff in a school dorm?