Salford financial issues(again…)

[M j M]

6 hours ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

It didn't bother Matt Ellis.

The IMG system strongly protects incumbents, would Salford easily get ahead of whoever replaced them? Wakefield knew that London were leaving SL whatever happened.

[lucky 7]

37 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

It's not him.

Plus as far as I'm aware Simon Orange has never known any interest in getting involved in Rugby League at any level, but I know that you would know more than me on this matter

[Martyn Sadler]

13 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

just posting this here as its one of the more popular threads -and a little off topic - but has anyone heard from one of the more prolific posters on TRL in the last 3 weeks? DUNBAR  - unusual for him not to be contributing all over the board! gone on a world cruise maybe?

I accused him of being obtuse when he made a strongly disparaging comment about one of my articles.

He seemed to think that was a terrible insult and suggested he would therefore quit the forum.

He's obviously a man of his word, although I've made far stronger comments to other members of this forum who, I'm glad to say, are still with us.

[ricky]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I accused him of being obtuse

Acutely insulting

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Worzel said:

Hetherington talking a lot of sense here:

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/leeds-rhinos-launch-salary-cap-dispensation-bid-as-salford-red-devils-crisis-takes-new-twist-4951555

As ever he sees the wood for the trees. Quite clear in his mind that Salford have been irresponsible, in contrast to other sides like Castleford who’ve made squad cutbacks proactively, but that we now need to think about what’s best for the sport not what would be a “fair” outcome (which let’s be honest is probably Salford going into administration)

Fair point, but give the clubs who are not up to 'full spend' the first option without any intervention from the 'richer clubs' for a set time say 3 days who could escalate the value of their chosen players, and if any club is allowed to go over the '7' of overseas signed players then all clubs should also be able to increase by the same amount.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

The IMG system strongly protects incumbents, would Salford easily get ahead of whoever replaced them? Wakefield knew that London were leaving SL whatever happened.

Matt Ellis had to oversee and finance a hell of a lot of work right across the club to ensure Wakefield were promoted.  It was never a given when he took over.

Salford are better off in many ways.  They're not relegated for a start. 

I still compare Salford's position more to what Michael Carter successfully took on back in 2013. 

[Archie Gordon]

This will (has) drag(ged) on as nobody is in charge. RFL, RLC, SL clubs: all seem to pull in different directions. Shambolic governance.

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

This will (has) drag(ged) on as nobody is in charge. RFL, RLC, SL clubs: all seem to pull in different directions. Shambolic governance.

It’s like watching an Apprentice task where, right from the start, it’s not about getting it right, it’s about making sure you can’t be blamed when it goes wrong.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fair point, but give the clubs who are not up to 'full spend' the first option without any intervention from the 'richer clubs' for a set time say 3 days who could escalate the value of their chosen players, and if any club is allowed to go over the '7' of overseas signed players then all clubs should also be able to increase by the same amount.

Yeah, I think this is the key challenge here. If clubs/players know that in another week Wigan/Leeds/Saints would be in the market, then I'm not sure how you can force them to take an offer from Hudds in advance.

[JohnM]

These days, across a whole range of things, we seem to expect instant answers to long term problems with full (if incomplete) process transparency.  We naturally want answers and actions to kill speculation and cretae fixes.

However, we frequently see the equivalent of scribbled meeting notes "to self" left behind by someone-or-other by mistake after a meeting and want to know what they mean: why this? why that? etc.

In my view, not enough thought and resilience testing goes into public pronouncements from clubs and game authrorities before they are issued. 

Lets hope the Salford, London etc problems are solved  and soon, too. 

 

[LeytherRob]

Moving back on topic, Salford have decided to not have any media presence tomorrow at their *checks notes*...media day.

"Following discussion, to protect our players in the club's current situation and ongoing investment negotiations, the club and RL commercial had decided to cancel any press attendance at tomorrow's media day."

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Moving back on topic, Salford have decided to not have any media presence tomorrow at their *checks notes*...media day.

"Following discussion, to protect our players in the club's current situation and ongoing investment negotiations, the club and RL commercial had decided to cancel any press attendance at tomorrow's media day."

[Charlie]

17 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Moving back on topic, Salford have decided to not have any media presence tomorrow at their *checks notes*...media day.

"Following discussion, to protect our players in the club's current situation and ongoing investment negotiations, the club and RL commercial had decided to cancel any press attendance at tomorrow's media day."

As Matt shaw replied to a tweet a lot of clubs do this anyway and tbh what’s the point the players will just be asked about leaving which there not gonna answer 

[Bull Mania]

29 minutes ago, Charlie said:

As Matt shaw replied to a tweet a lot of clubs do this anyway and tbh what’s the point the players will just be asked about leaving which there not gonna answer 

I think he meant more clubs use the media day to do in house head shots etc rather than clubs banning the press from attending. 

I find it childish from Salford to be honest. The players can just straight bat the questions and in all honesty, I don't think the journos who attend are going to be so bold to ask "so who are you signing for Marc? 

Salford seem to be doing what they like. Since the advanced payment "with strings attached" there's not been any cut to their operation costs AFAIK. They've allegedly ignored offers for players, which now looks like it was just another delaying tactic to try get the decision on exemptions overturned to create a bidding war. And now they've banned the press from the media day. It really is the tail wagging the dog and amateur governance from the RFL. 

[phiggins]

 

[LeeF]

6 minutes ago, phiggins said:

 

Friday? Is that the new Monday or Saturday or whichever day was the previous deadline?

[phiggins]

4 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Friday? Is that the new Monday or Saturday or whichever day was the previous deadline?

Seems they’ve very much gone for an all or nothing approach.  Hopefully they get their investment, but the apparent complete disconnect between the Salford board and the RFL regarding the terms of their funding advance is astonishing. 

[Archie Gordon]

Salford know that there are no consequences for them. They knew that from the moment they got the advance. The road we're going down for 2025 is a 12-team SL, including Salford. It's too late for anything else.

[LeytherRob]

1 hour ago, LeeF said:

Friday? Is that the new Monday or Saturday or whichever day was the previous deadline?

This one(Friday) seems like the end of the road. If the takeover isn’t done by then they won’t be able to register any players for the friendly against Saints without reducing their cap to meet the sustainability target.

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

This one(Friday) seems like the end of the road. If the takeover isn’t done by then they won’t be able to register any players for the friendly against Saints without reducing their cap to meet the sustainability target.

That’s my thinking. The takeover must be near actual completion to justify delays. More advanced than the waiting for an offer that King suggested in latest interviews

[Trojan Horse]

3 hours ago, phiggins said:

Seems they’ve very much gone for an all or nothing approach.  Hopefully they get their investment, but the apparent complete disconnect between the Salford board and the RFL regarding the terms of their funding advance is astonishing. 

It’s plain and simply taking the mickey out of the RFL and other clubs. 
 

Any sympathy I had has gone for Salford. 
 

The RFL ordered immediate action and they’ve just carried on. 
 

[The 4 of Us]

4 hours ago, phiggins said:

Seems they’ve very much gone for an all or nothing approach.  Hopefully they get their investment, but the apparent complete disconnect between the Salford board and the RFL regarding the terms of their funding advance is astonishing. 

Quite. He’s rolled the dice. Paul King appears to have committed to expenditure based on a suggestion Salford Council would provide a loan (in addition to buying the ground) that did not materialise. Whether he has spent money on players that was intended for something else or decided to spend loan money on players (not sure the council would have that was as intended) but he seems to have really gone out on a limb. I’d make a comment about spending someone else’s money but he appears to have mortgaged himself to the hilt as well! 
 

https://www.totalrl.com/salford-red-devils-hoping-to-complete-takeover-deal-this-week/

[Trojan Horse]

8 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Quite. He’s rolled the dice. Paul King appears to have committed to expenditure based on a suggestion Salford Council would provide a loan (in addition to buying the ground) that did not materialise. Whether he has spent money on players that was intended for something else or decided to spend loan money on players (not sure the council would have that was as intended) but he seems to have really gone out on a limb. I’d make a comment about spending someone else’s money but he appears to have mortgaged himself to the hilt as well! 
 

https://www.totalrl.com/salford-red-devils-hoping-to-complete-takeover-deal-this-week/

Could the fact he’s invested personally be part of the reason for the seemingly reluctancy and delays in selling players? 
 

if the squad were to weaken and Salford were to finish low it would signal almost certain 13th or below placing. 
 

Seems a possibility he and the club are backed against a wall and just holding out in hope to push a deal through that brings in some investment. 

Edited January 21 by Trojan Horse

[The 4 of Us]

3 minutes ago, Trojan Horse said:

Could the fact he’s invested personally be part of the reason for the seemingly reluctancy and delays in selling players? 
 

if the squad were to weaken and Salford were to finish low it would signal almost certain 13th or below placing. 
 

Seems he and the club are backed against a wall and just holding out in hope to push a deal through that brings in some investment. 

I think they’re backs to the wall in any event. If the potential buyers are serious but there is now additional delay, it could be the price is in question, or at least the liabilities they’re willing to take on.

If players go and as you say it gives them a lower placing (I said similar a day or two back) then that can only effect the willingness to buy and/or value, both of which would make a reluctance to commit to a sale of players understandable. He’ll want to hold off until the last minute. 

[LeytherRob]

32 minutes ago, phiggins said:

That’s my thinking. The takeover must be near actual completion to justify delays. More advanced than the waiting for an offer that King suggested in latest interviews

Latest from John Davidson is that negotiations are still ongoing as of earlier today. It would be very tight to get the whole thing done by the end of the week now, especially when there would need to be some form of vote of SRD shareholders/members to dissolve the community benefit society (CBS). 

This is taken from the CBS rules as published by SRD in the initial crowdfunder (1682350908_rules.pdf)

DISSOLUTION 97. The Club may be dissolved by the consent of three-quarters of the members who sign an instrument of dissolution in the form provided by the Registrar or by winding-up in the manner provided by the Act. 98. Subject to Rule 9, if on the winding-up or dissolution of the Club there remains, after the satisfaction of all its debts and liabilities any property whatsoever the same is to be transferred to: 98.1 a sporting charity or sporting charities operating in the Area and/or; 98.2 one or more societies established for the benefit of the community operating in the Area; and/or 98.3 one or more societies established for the benefit of the community in each case as determined by the members at a meeting called to decide the issue. Nothing belonging to the Club shall be transferred to any other society unless that society has in its rules a rule substantially in the terms of this Rule.

I'm assuming there would need to be some form of dissolution process to deregister the CBS with the financial conduct authority before the new owners can be truly 'official' but maybe they're banking on some form of guarantee from them to appease the RFL into removing the sustainability cap.

The only recent example I can find of a CBS moving to private ownership is Wrexham going to Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney, some relevant quotes here from the below links:

Wrexham Supporters Trust (WST) members voted overwhelmingly to back the takeover with 98.6% of those who responded backing the bid. Out of more than 2,000 trust members eligible to vote, 1,809 approved, 26 were against and nine abstained.

Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney: Hollywood stars to take over Wrexham - BBC Sport

In November Wrexham Supporters Trust voted overwhelmingly in favour of the deal, which has since gained approval from football authorities and the Financial Conduct Authority.

Ryan Reynolds & Rob McElhenney: Hollywood duo complete Wrexham takeover - BBC Sport

The latter link also gives quite a handy timeline of events which demonstrates how long these things take - the NDA's were signed summer 2020, the takeover vote was 8th Nov 2020 and final completion wasn't until 9th Feb 2021.