European Expansion Plan - Is there One?

[RayCee]

To hear of a club competition in a European nation is seen as a positive but is that it? Is there any idea of how to expand and improve the standard of the game in Europe? France has its own established comps but it has benefitted France having two teams in England. Wales has one and....that's it. Where to from here?

Ireland and Scotland are not prospects, the Netherlands and Norway have some teams and close are neighbours. If a backer or two could be found and clubs from those countries wanted to join an English based comp, would that be rejected? Would a side from Serbia be able to enter a French league on the same basis. Has any effort been made to get a club up and running in Catalonia that could join a lower French league?

I can't see another way of lifting those nations to a more competitive standard unless they were able to do something like that. It all takes plenty of money and they would have to pay all the travel costs as per usual so I don't see that ever happening but I wondered if it would be accepted if the opportunity arose. 

Edited November 30 by RayCee

[Eddie]

Seems unlikely, many clubs don’t even want Catalans in and think they offer nothing to the comp. 

[RayCee]

6 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Seems unlikely, many clubs don’t even want Catalans in and think they offer nothing to the comp. 

Then the sport can only hope at best to maintain the status quo, or more likely slowly decline.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Rugby League needs to expand in the British Isles, before it starts to think about anywhere else..

[sam4731]

Just now, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Rugby League needs to expand in the British Isles, before it starts to think about anywhere else..

Why?

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Just now, sam4731 said:

Why?

Because a league centred around towns on the M62 needs to expand iots playing, revenue and support base in the British Isles, before setting up new franchises in non-RL areas outside iof the country. Or it faces inevitable decline.

 

 

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Because a league centred around towns on the M62 needs to expand iots playing, revenue and support base in the British Isles, before setting up new franchises in non-RL areas outside iof the country. Or it faces inevitable decline.

 

 

Again, why?

That's just repeating the same idea but with more words.

[JohnM]

Maybe this is a job for...

https://www.intrl.sport/

[sam4731]

15 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Because a league centred around towns on the M62 needs to expand iots playing, revenue and support base in the British Isles, before setting up new franchises in non-RL areas outside iof the country. Or it faces inevitable decline.

 

 

There isn't a full time professional football league in Wales but there is in Saudi Arabia. Does football face the same issues then?

[THE RED ROOSTER]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Again, why?

That's just repeating the same idea but with more words.

I stand by my answer, but of course you could explain who sticking a franchise in Oslo for example is going to magically transform the fortunes of Rugby League. Leading to an increased UK TV deal from SKY and attracting new fans from places like Belfast, Avimore, Newquay, Llanelli and Lowestoft without their being professional rugby league nearby.

The floor is yours

[THE RED ROOSTER]

3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

There isn't a full time professional football league in Wales but there is in Saudi Arabia. Does football face the same issues then?

Soccer is a false analogy if ever there was one.  Same as with Ginger please explain the transformative impact of foreign franchises which has few clubs outside the M62 and nmone of those full time.

Is that really appealing to families in Yeovil ?

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, RayCee said:

To hear of a club competition in a European nation is seen as a positive but is that it? Is there any idea of how to expand and improve the standard of the game in Europe? France has its own established comps but it has benefitted France having two teams in England. Wales has one and....that's it. Where to from here?

Ireland and Scotland are not prospects, the Netherlands and Norway have some teams and close are neighbours. If a backer or two could be found and clubs from those countries wanted to join an English based comp, would that be rejected? Would a side from Serbia be able to enter a French league on the same basis. Has any effort been made to get a club up and running in Catalonia that could join a lower French league?

I can't see another way of lifting those nations to a more competitive standard unless they were able to do something like that. It all takes plenty of money and they would have to pay all the travel costs as per usual so I don't see that ever happening but I wondered if it would be accepted if the opportunity arose. 

We did have a club competition with the French clubs minus out top league teams in the 1990's i seem to recall and the English clubs pulled the plug on that, and I think I'm right in saying that Chorley Lynx won it, but I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong.

[gingerjon]

20 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Soccer is a false analogy if ever there was one.  Same as with Ginger please explain the transformative impact of foreign franchises which has few clubs outside the M62 and nmone of those full time.

Is that really appealing to families in Yeovil ?

Why do we want to appeal to families in Yeovil?

I'm just not seeing any real difference between a speculative "we need to develop across the UK" and a speculative "we should develop outside the UK", or even, "we need to develop in these random towns nearish the M62 that have never shown any interest in RL before".

[sam4731]

5 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Soccer is a false analogy if ever there was one.  Same as with Ginger please explain the transformative impact of foreign franchises which has few clubs outside the M62 and nmone of those full time.

Is that really appealing to families in Yeovil ?

OK you asked for it:

There is 1 Scot in the top 100 male golfers in the world

Ice Hockey has 25 professional clubs from USA, 7 from Canada

2 Frenchmen in the top 50 in Tennis.

That's without the countless sports invented in Britain that everyone else in the world has overtaken us at. 

All I'm saying is that sport can expand without making sure that every corner of the country where it's invented in is seen to first.

[Anita Bath]

many more professional hockey teams than that…you are only including the NHL.

[Damien]

It's a tough one. I think RL needs more fully professional leagues and more semi professional leagues. I had hopes that something may have developed through Toronto, and the talk of Ottawa etc, that may then spin off to start a small North American league but alas its largely gone by the wayside.

The step up though between having 6 or so teams, and the sort of setup we see in many places, and even a semi professional league like France is huge. Maybe the RLEF/IRL needs to look at why we often seem to stall around that level in terms of numbers and often struggle to get to 12 teams never mind a couple of leagues. 

I think the Balkan league idea is the way to go for teams within regions in Europe. That way countries can pool together resources to develop elite clubs, hopefully leading to a semi professional competition, while having a domestic league to develop smaller clubs. Setup similar to that in Scandinavia, Western Europe and Eastern Europe.

I think 1 or 2 teams in the English infrastructure is limiting and not the way to go. The step up is too huge and it is far too costly. The exception I'd make to that is France because of their history and current status. As bad as they may be they are still streets ahead of most other places in the world when it comes to teams and playing numbers and can make that step up. It's also a quick win for that country internationally and to step up from what they have domestically.

Bolting teams in Australiasia onto the NRL or NSW/Queensland Cup makes sense given the size of places in that region and seems to work well.

Edited November 30 by Damien

[HawkMan]

Red Rooster is right, the necessary " grease" to make the vehicle of expansion work is money. Money money and lots of it. Are broadcasters fighting each other to get a piece of the RL action? No.

Are top of the range sponsors pouring dosh into the game? No.

Why? Presumably,  obviously,  because they see little value in it.

Why? The game can only attract so much commercial value operating in the M62 belt. You can't get blood out of a stone, it's maxxed out. You need to expand first here to get more interest from broadcasters ,the price of TV deals is then pushed up, then with extra moolah floating around then costly expansion projects can be at least thought about sensibly.

The point raised about other sports is spurious at best, all these other sports are   played in many countries, well funded, so if the originator country lags behind it's irrelevant.

 

 

Edited November 30 by HawkMan

[fighting irish]

I'm sure members of this group would start an argument over nothing, just to have a rant and vent.

It tickles me that we all want broadly the same thing but can't agree how to achieve it.

The only thing we get consensus on is that ''it'll cost a lot of money''.

When I assess our own recent performance in developing the game over here, it seems to me we might be better off, leaving it all to the people on the ground in these far flung places. 

Canada have played USA and Jamaica, USA touring South Africa, I'm sure I just saw a clip of Brazil v Chile (was it?) and then all those of the European nations managing to organise fledgling leagues and International matches to-boot!

All on their own dime.

Are the European R.L. really helping them? I hope so, but there doesn't  seem to be a lot to shout about.

I think, until we can demonstrate a proven track record here in this country (why haven't we even written the definitive ''how to'' guide?) of how to stimulate sustainable growth then we should stop telling these entrepreneurial enthusiasts from elsewhere, how to do it.

 

 

[Father Gascoigne]

I've been following the off-field fortunes of most major sports for a few decades now. I can't even begin to count how many words have been spilt discussing the very topic.

In all this time, despite evidence of growth in the form of coverage or sold-out stadiums, there has been no appreciable difference in the sporting preferences of any given country. 

Culture is really hard to overcome. I guarantee you'll be asking this same question in 30 years' time, and nothing will have changed--not just for RL, but for any sport.  

[Eddie]

How about a competition with new teams from cities across Europe, could call it Euro 13s. 

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Because a league centred around towns on the M62 needs to expand iots playing, revenue and support base in the British Isles, before setting up new franchises in non-RL areas outside iof the country. Or it faces inevitable decline.

 

 

Developing the domestic competitions in other European nations has nothing to do with this statement 

[Father Gascoigne]

2 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Developing the domestic competitions in other European nations has nothing to do with this statement 

Not only that, but it's simply not true that RL needs to expand its base or face decline. What is this, the stock market?

If people are afraid that they're not going to be able to watch professional rugby league in England before they die, they needn't worry. It's not going anywhere.  

[OriginalMrC]

The answer to the question is no.

It is absolutely essential that more is invested in French RL. It's the only other country in Europe where the sport is viable. A stronger sport in France would hopefully spread outwards and also give players in other countries opportunities of a pathway to play the sport professionally in mainland Europe. 

Edited November 30 by OriginalMrC

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

The answer to the question is no.

It is absolutely essential that more is invested in French RL. It's the only other country in Europe where the sport is viable. A stronger sport in France would hopefully spread outwards and also give players in other countries opportunities of a pathway to play the sport professionally in mainland Europe. 

Great idea, it would be superb, but do you propose makes the investment? 

[HawkMan]

40 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Developing the domestic competitions in other European nations has nothing to do with this statement 

It's a crucial part of the problem. Expansion costs money, that money must come from the English game, just as the NRL pushed the Pacific region. The game here hasn't got the funds to throw at Euro expansion, unless it grows here, increases its value to potential broadcasters and investors.