14 Nov: 3rd Test - England v New Zealand (Wigan, KO 1pm) Match Thread

[Exiled Wiganer]

People who think the team should be full of Wigan players because of where it's being played, are as blind as the coach we have in charge.

If that is aimed at me, I explained the caveats and context. I must say that these Braille computers aren't all they're cracked up to be...

[Mushy]

Best English left centre in SL? Thought that was Shenton actually, so there is a little depth in our game if not in our squad.

Having finally watched the game again, it was really apparent how we seem to still be playing the same way in attack we would if Tomkins was there. Hardaker can't play as the ball playing full back that a structured game needs so we have to change the style a bit. Williams struggles to play at the line when he's not running the ball, as does Widdop to a lesser extent, so once again it suggests we will have to change the attacking approach to work with what we've got.

Smith has been useless all year so I'd swap Williams for Gale and go for a generally more expansive attacking game from our forward's offloads. If we can get a break or two I think we'll get our confidence back - England do seem to get up tight pretty easily - and start to look dangerous like we have at times over the last 3 years.

England by 4 for mine.

[yipyee]

We've come a long way since Farrell at stand-off, Forshaw at hooker or Horne on the wing, but it is still sad that we don't have enough talent at left centre to avoid having to go with a makeshift option (accepting the obvious choice in Jack Reed is currently injured). That having been said, it's hard to argue that Cudjoe isn't worth a shot ahead of Bateman - he's certainly not disgraced himself at international level before, and has had another good season for Huddersfield. Bateman is a good young player and I can understand the thinking behind giving him a go at centre, but given the Kiwis haven't troubled us too much down their right side, I would go with the more attacking option of Cudjoe.

Hopefully the likes of Toby King and Oliver Gildart can continue to push on and give some strength in depth to this position.

Jordon Turners had a good season and can break the line....hold on he plays for saints....cant pick him then!

Shenton has had 2 dream seasons...reborn since his saints days...

As mentioned Hardaker is a good solid FB but isnt the extra ball player that Tomkins is and Jonny Lomax can be...

I think theres a missed opportunity for some fringe players that we never won the second test...I would definitely play mcgilvery!

[Futtocks]

People who think the team should be full of Wigan players because of where it's being played, are as blind as the coach we have in charge.

About 90% of the criticisms on TRL seem to have been followed by the solution that we should drop most if not all the Wigan players. No, they haven't all been stars, but neither have the players from other clubs.

[Futtocks]

Jordon Turners had a good season and can break the line....hold on he plays for saints....cant pick him then!

Shenton has had 2 dream seasons...reborn since his saints days...

As mentioned Hardaker is a good solid FB but isnt the extra ball player that Tomkins is and Jonny Lomax can be...

I think theres a missed opportunity for some fringe players that we never won the second test...I would definitely play mcgilvery!

I don't think we can bring in new players once the squad has been announced.

 

But if we're fantasising, of those mentioned above, Shenton would almost certainly do a good job, but would he provide the spark to bust a very solid defence. I'd like to think so. 

 

I have major doubts about Jordan Turner's defence, but love a lot of the other things he can do. I reckon he will (with a bit of application) become a much more dangerous all-rounder in the next couple of years.

 

Lomax - when he's properly fit and has a few games under his belt, let's take another look at him and decide. Talented player.

 

McGilvary - if the third test is anything like the first two, it won't make a huge difference. The only consistent possession he'll get is when he's grinding up the middle like Hall's been doing. If Wigan is a more open match, he'd do all right... but so would Joe Burgess. Hard choice, but the incumbent holds the aces.

[Barnaby Reddin]

2 Scenarios.

1. England cut loose and play with the same energy and purpose they did in week 1  and England by 13+

2. England allow the Kiwis to dictate the early pace (see the number of penalties the Kiwis were prepared to give away early doors in game 2) and the Kiwis will pinch this by the odd score.

[The Future is League]

If England keep the same half back combination the Kiwis will win by 12.

Playing an inexperienced stand off at srum half doesn't make sense to me.

[J Dilla]

Kiwis by 7

[roughyedspud]

i hope gerrard sutton is on a plane back to australia...so he can't ruin the game by blowing his whistle every 3mins 

[J Dilla]

i hope gerrard sutton is on a plane back to australia...so he can't ruin the game by blowing his whistle every 3mins 

so i suppose you want Thaler to ensure a England win?

[dunno much]

Who's the ref?

[roughyedspud]

so i suppose you want Thaler to ensure a England win?

Sorry?? England won because of the ref?? is that what you are saying??

No...i want thaler cos he reffed a test match properly!!

28 penalties is ridiculous

[Dunbar]

Sutton was awful. Completely impartial and fair but awful.

[J Dilla]

Sorry?? England won because of the ref?? is that what you are saying??

No...i want thaler cos he reffed a test match properly!!

28 penalties is ridiculous

keep it neutral. it doesnt look good having an english ref in a decider.

 

id rather have 28 penalties than a 9-2 penalty count to england from an impartial english ref.

[Old Frightful]

Doesn't matter where it's at, we want a home win so if that means unpopular selection then so be it.

I'd go with Gale in the halves, we need a bit of the unpredictable if the game follows the trend of the 2nd test and I think he's the man.

Any idea why the KO's so early?, I fear for my head Sunday.

[sentoffagain2]

      england   won   the   first   game   because   the   kiwis   ran   out   of   steam   in   the   second  half.maybe   they   over celebrated   the   all   blacks  winning   the   r.u. world   cup.last   week   englands halfs   were  very   poor  and   did   not   give   the   outside   backs a   chance.very  suprised   jammer  tried   to   pick   up   a   moving   ball   over   the   try   line   when   all   he  needed   under   the   current  rules   was   to  reach   out   and   get  a   finger  to   the   ball.this   weekend  i   think   the   kiwis   will   cut   out   some   of   their   errors   ;;ie  overplaying   at   times.the   british   game   needs   to   produce  our   own   half   backs  over   the   next   ten   years   or   we   will   continue   to   lose  in   series   against   the   kiwis   and   aussies.on   saturday  kiwis  to   win   by   10.

[roughyedspud]

Wow....thats special..

[snapski]

My eyes hurt after reading that.

[amm]

ES1 - not the best seats but maybe we'll see some cracking tries

[JoneslessBishop]

When we are talking about lack of depth at center it should be remembered Sargison, who had a great 4 Nation last year. I think Macca has fallen a little into the trap of 'if it's worked for Wigan it can work for us' with Bateman and Williams without recognizing this reliance on youth has not quite cut it at the top of SL, never mind at international level . That said I applauded his bravery with Williams and thought he would complement Widdop well. I'd rest Williams now as some early big hits/ errors won't allow his now fragile confidence to recover. Smiths familiarity with Widdop and the DW and his kicking game to shade him over Gale. Cudjoe at centre. Westwood to add some impact and experience to support a debut for Currie who will add a step to proceedings to offset Williams removal. Burgess just shades McGilvery on his own ground. Fingers crossed. Cmon England!!

[DavidM]

I hope Thaler is the ref . Far less visible , less picky , far less whistle . Some of these penalties are of little or no consequence other than stopping the game .

[roughyedspud]

Bateman hasn't disgraced himself...plus dean whare is probably the form center in the world at the moment...

Would cudjoe do any better???

I think our 2nd row rotation is working..faz does the 80 min as a tackling machine and whitehead & ferres add the impact....certainly would swap one of the out for westwood

[redjonn]

About 90% of the criticisms on TRL seem to have been followed by the solution that we should drop most if not all the Wigan players. No, they haven't all been stars, but neither have the players from other clubs.

 

That may be because we are trying to fathom why we haven't been able to bring those other players into the game. Thus focus on where some think the key positions as to where the problem may lay. Such as half-back and centre where their just happens to be players that play for Wigan... not because they are Wigan players.   Most of the solutions include bringing in another Wigan player, namely Smith.

[GeordieSaint]

I hope Thaler is the ref . Far less visible , less picky , far less whistle . Some of these penalties are of little or no consequence other than stopping the game .

 

The play-the-ball was really slow at the weekend; absolutely suited New Zealand.

 

Bateman hasn't disgraced himself...plus dean whare is probably the form center in the world at the moment...

Would cudjoe do any better???

 

Cudjoe wouldn't do any better as neither of our centres have had any ball in space; that is the problem as we've discussed elsewhere. I'd still prefer Cudjoe despite Bateman having done nothing wrong simply as he is a specialist centre and played well at international level before.

[Allora]

Its sad that its a Test series with a knocked up Kiwi side with no recognised halves and their Captain missing against our team with a rookie half and playing a forward in the centres.

It would be great to see two top sides battle it out rather than knock up teams struggling to win.

I have never been a fan of playing a forward in the backs, its something we have been guilty of nearly every Test we play.

I would rather have a back in the forwards like Australia have often done at Hooker, Lock or Second row as the players have aged.

Why can we not produce Halves or Centres that we trust at Test level?

Lets face it Rangi Chase was an import and Widdop has been built 100%in the NRL.