smart motorways - now the real reason

[graveyard johnny]

if anyone using a smart motorway has been driving on it wondering where on earth the improvements or new benefits  are for the motorist (that has paid for this total joke)- in fact its worse than the old motorway - well we should have known the real reason shouldn't we?

speed cameras that never sleep, lined up like big brother robots ready to fine the ordinary tired confused honest working person as they go about their day

71mph with out any leniency and its a fine - points etc

sneakily done

this country is making me sick

[Bedford Roughyed]

Is this based on reality or one of those old wives tail post on Facebook?

[John Drake]

14 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

if anyone using a smart motorway has been driving on it wondering where on earth the improvements or new benefits  are for the motorist (that has paid for this total joke)- in fact its worse than the old motorway - well we should have known the real reason shouldn't we?

speed cameras that never sleep, lined up like big brother robots ready to fine the ordinary honest working person

71mph with out any leniency and its a fine - points etc

sneakily done

this country is making me sick

On the up side, it means you're less likely to be delayed by, or involved in an accident on the motorway if there are fewer speeding motorists on it.

[graveyard johnny]

2 minutes ago, John Drake said:

On the up side, it means you're less likely to be delayed by, or involved in an accident on the motorway if there are fewer speeding motorists on it.

you obviously don't use motoways at peak times then?

[John Drake]

Just now, graveyard johnny said:

you obviously don't use motoways at peak times then?

Only twice a day, every day going to and from work.

The bit of the M62 near Bradford that was converted to smart motorway several years ago is massively better than it used to be, in my direct experience of using it all the time.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Is this based on reality or one of those old wives tail post on Facebook?

There has been a statement from one of the police bodies saying they will look into actually enforcing speed limits on motorways.

Cue outrage.

[Bedford Roughyed]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There has been a statement from one of the police bodies saying they will look into actually enforcing speed limits on motorways.

Cue outrage.

No i've seen a copy and past thing going round Facebook, separate to what that policeman said.  

Its specifically about the cameras on smart motorways being on constantly, as opposed to only on when variable speed limit in action.  Its smells of chain letter BS.  

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

No i've seen a copy and past thing going round Facebook, separate to what that policeman said.  

Its specifically about the cameras on smart motorways being on constantly, as opposed to only on when variable speed limit in action.  Its smells of chain letter BS.  

Ah, right.

Still, motorists must be allowed “speed limit plus 10% plus a bit” and a course so they don’t get any points or else it’s not fair.

[Spidey]

Breaking the speed limit leads to consequences shock ?

[ckn]

It really is simple, smart motorways tied to variable speed limits get rid of most congestion.  By slowing traffic earlier than congestion, you get more traffic on the road, all moving and with very few delays.  You can actually drive on the busiest parts of the M25 at rush hour because of this sort of thing.

Two weeks ago I had to go to Reading at rush hour, got all the way round half of the M25 then up the M4 without a single stopped traffic point despite driving in the 7am-9am bracket.  Same with on the way back in the 5-7pm bracket.  A few variable speed reductions to get into order then back up again.  A few people winding in and out of traffic getting above the speed limit and undoubtedly getting a ticket.

On whether they should be on permanently, of course they should.  Why invest in them if you're not going to use them?  If someone's daft enough to speed on a motorway with them on it then I'm happy for their fines to go into subsidising some part of the state.  21,000 police traffic officers have been cut since 2010, someone has to pick up the slack that that has caused.

You may not agree with the speeding law but it's there, if you don't like it then lobby your MP to increase it on motorways.  Alternatively, take your chance speeding and man up if you get caught rather than complaining that you have been.

On one part though, I am a bit sympathetic.  Those 21,000 cut police officers could have applied human context to a situation.  Someone doing 80 on a deserted 3am motorway is far less of a risk than someone doing 60 weaving in and out of traffic that's at a crawl.  We, as a nation, voted to return a Tory government who cut those 21,000 officers therefore we, as a nation, have to suck up the consequences of mindless machines making black/white decisions.

[graveyard johnny]

my point is its all been done so underhand and sneakily - I think ckn would be ready to blame the torys for the leaves falling off the trees roundabout September time, truth is its successive underhand ingrained highway robbery by govts of whom none can be trusted for a second

 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

if anyone using a smart motorway has been driving on it wondering where on earth the improvements or new benefits  are for the motorist (that has paid for this total joke)- in fact its worse than the old motorway - well we should have known the real reason shouldn't we?

speed cameras that never sleep, lined up like big brother robots ready to fine the ordinary tired confused honest working person as they go about their day

71mph with out any leniency and its a fine - points etc

sneakily done

this country is making me sick

Oh dear another one who's fallen for a fake news story. 

FACT - For a start no cameras are set at 1mph above the limit because of the variability of accuracy of a vehicles own speedo.  The minimum any UK police force is willing to enforce is 10% above the limit, and most then also apply a 2mph safety buffer on top of that to ensure they get a safe conviction.

FACT - most speed cameras are deactivated when the variable limit is not in operation, and I know of only 1 police force who keep theirs active and that's West Yorkshire ( and I'm not telling you what the default speed setting is).

And before anyone asks how I know, I'm the project manager of one of the engineering teams who design smart motorways and attend the safety group which includes the police who agree the operation of each individual smart motorway,  which includes where cameras as are placed and what speed they operate at.

For those of you in the NW you can all look forward to 4 new ones starting construction over the next year on the M62, M6, M56 and M60.

[graveyard johnny]

7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Oh dear another one who's fallen for a fake news story. 

FACT - For a start no cameras are set at 1mph above the limit because of the variability of accuracy of a vehicles own speedo.  The minimum any UK police force is willing to enforce is 10% above the limit, and most then also apply a 2mph safety buffer on top of that to ensure they get a safe conviction.

FACT - most speed cameras are deactivated when the variable limit is not in operation, and I know of only 1 police force who keep theirs active and that's West Yorkshire ( and I'm not telling you what the default speed setting is).

And before anyone asks how I know, I'm the project manager of one of the engineering teams who design smart motorways and attend the safety group which includes the police who agree the operation of each individual smart motorway,  which includes where cameras as are placed and what speed they operate at.

For those of you in the NW you can all look forward to 4 new ones starting construction over the next year on the M62, M6, M56 and M60.

how do we know this is not a fake news story?

[Robin Evans]

8 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how do we know this is not a fake news story?

You don't.... you take toppys word or you don't Johnny lad......

[Just Browny]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

There has been a statement from one of the police bodies saying they will look into actually enforcing speed limits on motorways.

Cue outrage.

We should be lenient on the tired and confused ones apparently 

[Bob8]

51 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

how do we know this is not a fake news story?

You're right.

St Toppy just has it in for the Tories.

[Bedford Roughyed]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Oh dear another one who's fallen for a fake news story. 

FACT - For a start no cameras are set at 1mph above the limit because of the variability of accuracy of a vehicles own speedo.  The minimum any UK police force is willing to enforce is 10% above the limit, and most then also apply a 2mph safety buffer on top of that to ensure they get a safe conviction.

FACT - most speed cameras are deactivated when the variable limit is not in operation, and I know of only 1 police force who keep theirs active and that's West Yorkshire ( and I'm not telling you what the default speed setting is).

And before anyone asks how I know, I'm the project manager of one of the engineering teams who design smart motorways and attend the safety group which includes the police who agree the operation of each individual smart motorway,  which includes where cameras as are placed and what speed they operate at.

For those of you in the NW you can all look forward to 4 new ones starting construction over the next year on the M62, M6, M56 and M60.

So hypothetically someone doing 80 under a smart motorway gantry when it’s off would be safe?  Asking for a friend...

[Saint Toppy]

3 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

So hypothetically someone doing 80 under a smart motorway gantry when it’s off would be safe?  Asking for a friend...

 

3 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

So hypothetically someone doing 80 under a smart motorway gantry when it’s off would be safe?  Asking for a friend...

Yes, even w.yorks police limit is higher than 80 when the variable limit signs are off. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

2 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

 

Yes, even w.yorks police limit is higher than 80 when the variable limit signs are off. 

Not that I do 1 mile over 70 mind you...

[Shadow]

7 hours ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

Not that my friend does 1 mile over 70 mind you...

fixed your typo

[Trojan]

16 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

if anyone using a smart motorway has been driving on it wondering where on earth the improvements or new benefits  are for the motorist (that has paid for this total joke)- in fact its worse than the old motorway - well we should have known the real reason shouldn't we?

speed cameras that never sleep, lined up like big brother robots ready to fine the ordinary tired confused honest working person as they go about their day

71mph with out any leniency and its a fine - points etc

sneakily done

this country is making me sick

Yup.  Hours of delay on the M62/M1/M60 installing them, so that the government can get more money from drivers. I've no doubt the Daily Mail would  be up in arms about it had Labour still been in power.  As for smart motorways, it's utter rubbish  Last year I was on the stretch of M1 between Jct. 29 and jct.25 which is smart motorway.  The speed limits were in force. On the dot of 10-00am they were extinguished.  There was no difference in the volume of traffic.  It's a scam.  Someone, somewhere puts them on at (say) 7-00 am and switches them off at 10-00 am regardless of traffic density.

[Saint Toppy]

12 hours ago, Trojan said:

It's a scam.  Someone, somewhere puts them on at (say) 7-00 am and switches them off at 10-00 am regardless of traffic density.

Wrong, they're computer controlled using real time traffic flow data (look for the small camera boxes on the gantries,  usually blue, yellow or green in colour, they're the traffic monitoring camera).

They can be over-ridden but only by the senior police officer in the regional control centre (the NW one is in Newton-le-willows, St.helens),  and they only do this when they need to slow traffic down such as for an incident.

The only other settings that can be used to determine the speed limit is where local pollution levels are being exceeded and the limit can be lowered to say 60mph to reduce those local levels.

[Lounge Room Lizard]

On 2.2.2018 at 6:23 PM, John Drake said:

On the up side, it means you're less likely to be delayed by, or involved in an accident on the motorway if there are fewer speeding motorists on it.

Speeding often has little to do with crashes. I drive often at 130 to 140 mph and never been in a Crash. And many others in Germany do far more than that and yet the Crash statistischen are not much different to the UK or elsewhere!

Often the cause of a Crash is down to poor diving skills and lack of concentration. I am concentrate more diving fast than at 20 mph. 

Naturally a high speeding Crash will have bigger impact. But people die crashing at 70mph. Passing your test in Germany requires far more than in the UK. Maybe Driving test standards and what you learn should be looked at more than speeding.

[JohnM]

For once, breaking my self-imposed embargo on posting in AOB owing to what i think  is the the the high number of fundamentally flawed posts . 

Looks like our roads are safer than those of Germany : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Speed ia beyond doubt a  major factor in both the incidence and severity of accidents. There is a huge body of independent reasearch that proves this.

For example: 

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/specialist/knowledge/speed/speed_is_a_central_issue_in_road_safety/speed_and_accident_risk_en

 

[tim2]

I drive to work every day on the new smart motorway between J30 and J33 of the M1. The 60mph limit switches off at 9am on the dot pretty much every day. It was even switched on on New Year's Day morning when there were about 5 cars on the road.

John's right - speeding is a contributory factor to accidents at all speeds, along with impairment due to tiredness/drink/drugs and, most importantly, f***wittery. If cars weren't so vital to our lifestyles and economy they would be banned as the humans behind the wheel can't be trusted. Perhaps autonomous vehicles will eventually be the only ones allowed on motorways.

The thing that worries me about the stretch on the M1 is the extra lane that has no hard shoulder. There aren't enough refuge areas and broken down vehicles are a major hazard. I know the signs are much better at indicating the breakdown but even so I hope it never happens to me.