11/11/18

[Oxford]

I wanted this to be about the remembering

"Armistice Day: How did WW1 end? Where was the Armistice signed and when did the Great War end? "

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/armistice-day-how-did-world-war-one-end-and-what-is-the-armistice-a3984916.html

but ........

"Royal British Legion volunteers tell of alarming accounts of being sworn at and having doors slammed angrily in their faces, just days before the centenary of the signing of the Armistice.

Charlie Thomson, who served with the RAF, including overseas detachments in Afghanistan and Bahrain, says this is his third year selling poppies in Chartham but the first time he has been met with such a response. "

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/poppy-sellers-subjected-to-abuse-193083/

But it's always all about these men and all the rest for me

 

[Marauder]

Looks like he once interviewed Corbyn so now he is his number one best buddy after me because he bought the beer at Hatfield Main Miners Welfare club.

https://en.wikialpha.org/wiki/Aaron_Bastani

Going back to 11/11/18 I'll be in my local park remembering all victims of conflict, especially my school day friend Edmund Muller.

[ckn]

I'd be really shocked if core party political views have anything to do with the comments in the original post.

In previous years, I've been frustrated with poppy sellers treating wearing a poppy as mandatory and doing passive-aggressive stuff such as tutting at me as I go past if I dared to not be showing a poppy and not buying one from them.  I have one bought this year, I sometimes don't wear it when I'm out as it's not mandatory and it really is my personal choice, I don't have to do it to make anyone else's idiot pedantry happy (and that's the politest I'll be about it).

There's two things here:

1. Remembrance; and
2. Wearing the poppy.

They are NOT the same.  The efforts by some to make them the same just completely misses the point of remembering the sacrifice of those who gave their lives.  I can do 1 without donating a penny and do it ethically and morally sincerely as well.  The day 2 becomes mandatory for people like me is the day I will refuse to wear one.

Buying a poppy is almost a ubiquitous (one for certain military folk there) experience, you almost literally cannot go into any public commercial place without passing within 50m of someone selling a poppy.  That's perfectly fine and gives people an easy way to get one, I don't really want them coming knocking on my door asking for more.  When I used to be a councillor, I heard a good number of examples of the pressure doorstep charity folk put on people to give, and give more, they should be willing to accept being told to politely go away.  Donating to the Poppy Appeal MUST be entirely voluntary and donation collectors must remember that.

Same with wearing a white poppy.  I was just listening to Nick Ferrari on LBC on this subject and the callers expressing outrage at those who choose to not donate to the RBL through the Poppy Appeal completely and totally miss the point of remembrance.

Then there's the pressure being put on our politicians and celebrities of all political leanings to wear all the different types of poppy from the centenary one, to the Muslim soldiers' one, to the white one, to the expensive ceramic ones.  It really shouldn't be a shooting offence for a politician or celebrity to choose not to wear one and it shouldn't be treated as disrespecting our past.

Just remember the actual purpose of Remembrance Day.  If you're getting angry about others not properly observing "remembrance" then you're probably completely missing the point.

Remembrance Sunday, which falls on 11 November in 2018, is a day for the nation to remember and honour those who have sacrificed themselves to secure and protect our freedom.  That's it, nothing else, the Poppy Appeal is a charitable addition to this and is not remembrance in itself.

[Vambo]

First time I've heard of people knocking on doors selling poppies.

Is this a common thing?

Literally can't turn around this time of year without having the chance to buy a poppy.

[Wiltshire Rhino]

Poppy or no poppy, it's all about this 

[ckn]

As requested, I have deleted some posts and quotes of posts.

There was NOTHING wrong with the posts deleted, it's just an attempt to depoliticise the Poppy Appeal thing.  If anything deserves to be depoliticised then it's this.

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, ckn said:

As requested, I have deleted some posts and quotes of posts.

There was NOTHING wrong with the posts deleted, it's just an attempt to depoliticise the Poppy Appeal thing.  If anything deserves to be depoliticised then it's this.

Fair enough, understood 

[John Drake]

Some thoughtful words from England's James Graham:

http://www.totalrl.com/james-graham-and-england-remember-2/

[Marauder]

I'll be buying my poppy tomorrow to wear on Sunday in my local park, I however donate £8.50p a month to the RBL but will not buy anything from help for heroes unless I'm collared by Ben Parkinson. "Ubique"

[Oxford]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/46152629

[DavidM]

I’ve got my poppy and badges and I make sure I wear them , doubly proudly when I’m out n about. It’s above anything - it’s just respect , remembering , commemoration and honouring the efforts , bravery and sacrifice of those who gave so much , sometimes everything for generations to come . As a devotee of history it’s always meant a lot to me . It’s just a shame it wasn’t the war to end all wars , and tragically ironic that  the urge to squeeze , neuter and officially lay all blame on Germany to that end was a reason it would eventually happen again given circumstance and the right ( or wrong )man , to exploit it . And that was foretold pretty much immediately on both sides 

[Futtocks]

Because of the centenary, I've seen more poppy sellers this year and I bunged in a few quid for one of the enamel pins. Nicer than the paper/plastic ones, and a lot more durable. Also, you can use the pin part to jab any of those fake patriots who bluster on about how everyone should be forced to wear one.

Some years, unless I go to somewhere like a major railway station, I don't see a poppy seller at all.

[Futtocks]

By the way, Peter Jackson's documentary/reconstruction, They shall not grow old, will be on BBC2 on Sunday evening, at 9:30pm.

[Futtocks]

16 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Will this be on iPlayer do you think? Not everything automatically is. I'm out at the test all day and up very early on Monday so might not be able to watch all of it.

It is in the regular broadcast schedules, so the chances are good.

I've set my video recorder.

[Bedford Roughyed]

53 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Will this be on iPlayer do you think? Not everything automatically is. I'm out at the test all day and up very early on Monday so might not be able to watch all of it.

I think it will be.  The iPlayer says - 'programme will be available shortly after broadcast', but that might be a stock 'description'. 

[Saintslass]

I am volunteering as a steward at the remembrance day service in St Helens town centre this Sunday.  I always go to the remembrance Sunday service in the town centre as I am reminded of how many people still care about remembrance day when I turn up there.  So many people attend, whatever the weather.  Reading Twitter and some news outlets it is easy to forget that many ordinary people just want to give that moment on a Sunday morning nearest the 11th day of the 11th month to remember those who have sacrificed so much so that we can argue about whether we should wear a poppy or whether people are being passive aggressive when selling them.  

I remember when I was dating an American guy back in the 1990s.  He visited me here on a couple of occasions.  The first visit coincided with remembrance Sunday and we were staying with my sister in London at the time.  We were walking near St James' Park when the guns sounded the start of the silence.  Everyone stopped, including taxis and cars (and me).  People stood and bowed their heads.  You could have heard a pin drop.  It was the most moving, most amazing experience, and my boyfriend was stunned by it.  He couldn't believe that people would honour their war dead in such a way because although Americans have Veterans Day it is nothing like our remembrance day.  That particular experience made a big impact on him and on me too and I've never missed a service since then and I haven't let a single year pass without buying at least one poppy.  This year I have bought a regular poppy, which is attached to my shoulder bag, and a wristband with poppies around it which I wear all the time.

Only one of my granddads served in WW2, and he's dead some 20 years now.  My Dad was in the last cohort to have to complete national service and that was more traumatic than my granddad's service (which was spent doing very little on Gibraltar).  My Dad has worn his medals with pride every remembrance Sunday remembering all his comrades who were blown to pieces in Cyprus.  I remember all those I didn't know who were blown to pieces either physically or mentally so that I could buy my poppies and stand quietly beside a young American man in London one late autumn morning in 1997.

[shrek]

My eldest spent a term last year studying WW2 and has taken a real interest in it.

Tonight we've been to put poppies on crosses on my Grandfathers grave who served in Africa in WW2 and my Great Grandfather who died in Aldershot in 1919 having come back from serving in the war injured and saw out his days in military hospital.

I'm a real family history bore, some of the stories are heartbreaking, my family tree has one great uncle who died just 5 days before the end of WW1, his youngest brother who died aged just 18 in 1916 and his eldest died in 1917, its impossible not to look at the family tree and wonder what would have been.

I wear my poppy with pride, not for as long each year as some, only started wearing it today, but if people don't want to then I see no reason why they shouldn't have the choice.

 

[shrek]

5 hours ago, Vambo said:

First time I've heard of people knocking on doors selling poppies.

Is this a common thing?

Literally can't turn around this time of year without having the chance to buy a poppy.

This is the first year in 10 years living in our current house that someone from the British Legion hasn't been around selling poppies door to door, not sure if its to do with there being more sellers in general with it being the centenary or if it all fell on the shoulders of one man who can't do it this year for whatever reason.

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

I am volunteering as a steward at the remembrance day service in St Helens town centre this Sunday.  I always go to the remembrance Sunday service in the town centre as I am reminded of how many people still care about remembrance day when I turn up there.  So many people attend, whatever the weather.  Reading Twitter and some news outlets it is easy to forget that many ordinary people just want to give that moment on a Sunday morning nearest the 11th day of the 11th month to remember those who have sacrificed so much so that we can argue about whether we should wear a poppy or whether people are being passive aggressive when selling them.  

I remember when I was dating an American guy back in the 1990s.  He visited me here on a couple of occasions.  The first visit coincided with remembrance Sunday and we were staying with my sister in London at the time.  We were walking near St James' Park when the guns sounded the start of the silence.  Everyone stopped, including taxis and cars (and me).  People stood and bowed their heads.  You could have heard a pin drop.  It was the most moving, most amazing experience, and my boyfriend was stunned by it.  He couldn't believe that people would honour their war dead in such a way because although Americans have Veterans Day it is nothing like our remembrance day.  That particular experience made a big impact on him and on me too and I've never missed a service since then and I haven't let a single year pass without buying at least one poppy.  This year I have bought a regular poppy, which is attached to my shoulder bag, and a wristband with poppies around it which I wear all the time.

Only one of my granddads served in WW2, and he's dead some 20 years now.  My Dad was in the last cohort to have to complete national service and that was more traumatic than my granddad's service (which was spent doing very little on Gibraltar).  My Dad has worn his medals with pride every remembrance Sunday remembering all his comrades who were blown to pieces in Cyprus.  I remember all those I didn't know who were blown to pieces either physically or mentally so that I could buy my poppies and stand quietly beside a young American man in London one late autumn morning in 1997.

I made a big impact doing my last duty in the army, I was detailed to  firing the gun on remembrance Sunday in my regiment, It was on a dull and overcast day and when I received the signal to fire the gun  BANG!!! shortly followed by the tinkle of the NAAFI windows breaking and falling out, my loader asked what to do, I gave the order to load and on the signal from the Regimental Orderly Sargent stood at the church doors to end the minutes silence BANG!!! followed again by the sound of breaking glass, on count back I won   37 - 0

[Bleep1673]

My remembrance day is always September 23rd, as that is the day in 1917 that my Great-Uncle Thomas Pearson died at Passchendaele where  he is remembered at Tyne Cot Cemetery on the massive wall that is the Memorial to the Missing, where there are 37,000 men named whose bodies have never been identified, recovered or had enough left over to be buried.

I am the only person in his family who have ever been to Belgium to remember him, and I have done it twice, the second time on my 125cc Piaggio scooter. 

[distantdog]

21 hours ago, Bleep1673 said:

My remembrance day is always September 23rd, as that is the day in 1917 that my Great-Uncle Thomas Pearson died at Passchendaele where  he is remembered at Tyne Cot Cemetery on the massive wall that is the Memorial to the Missing, where there are 37,000 men named whose bodies have never been identified, recovered or had enough left over to be buried.

I am the only person in his family who have ever been to Belgium to remember him, and I have done it twice, the second time on my 125cc Piaggio scooter. 

Visited there a couple of years ago with my two sons. Very moving.

My own remembrance day is April 10th, which is when my grandad was shot down over Dusseldorf. He is now buried in the war cemetary at Rheinberg. I have visited several times, last time when I took my uncle to visit his father's grave for the first time, him never having met his dad having been born after he was shot down. Unbelievably moving.

 

[Moose]

Ossett town centre was packed with I estimate around a thousand people paying their respects at the War Memorial. A very moving experience.

 

https://goo.gl/images/kySxhx

 

 

[Phil]

Just seen Mrs Phil marching past on the telly, very proud 

[deluded pom?]

On 11/9/2018 at 8:25 PM, Saintslass said:

I am volunteering as a steward at the remembrance day service in St Helens town centre this Sunday.  I always go to the remembrance Sunday service in the town centre as I am reminded of how many people still care about remembrance day when I turn up there.  So many people attend, whatever the weather.  Reading Twitter and some news outlets it is easy to forget that many ordinary people just want to give that moment on a Sunday morning nearest the 11th day of the 11th month to remember those who have sacrificed so much so that we can argue about whether we should wear a poppy or whether people are being passive aggressive when selling them.  

I remember when I was dating an American guy back in the 1990s.  He visited me here on a couple of occasions.  The first visit coincided with remembrance Sunday and we were staying with my sister in London at the time.  We were walking near St James' Park when the guns sounded the start of the silence.  Everyone stopped, including taxis and cars (and me).  People stood and bowed their heads.  You could have heard a pin drop.  It was the most moving, most amazing experience, and my boyfriend was stunned by it.  He couldn't believe that people would honour their war dead in such a way because although Americans have Veterans Day it is nothing like our remembrance day.  That particular experience made a big impact on him and on me too and I've never missed a service since then and I haven't let a single year pass without buying at least one poppy.  This year I have bought a regular poppy, which is attached to my shoulder bag, and a wristband with poppies around it which I wear all the time.

Only one of my granddads served in WW2, and he's dead some 20 years now.  My Dad was in the last cohort to have to complete national service and that was more traumatic than my granddad's service (which was spent doing very little on Gibraltar).  My Dad has worn his medals with pride every remembrance Sunday remembering all his comrades who were blown to pieces in Cyprus.  I remember all those I didn't know who were blown to pieces either physically or mentally so that I could buy my poppies and stand quietly beside a young American man in London one late autumn morning in 1997.

Things may have changed in the meantime. We were near Marble Arch at the top of Oxford St a couple of years ago on Remembrance Sunday as 11 o’clock approached. My wife and I stood in silence at 11 o’clock. The hustle and bustle of shoppers and passers by continued as it had prior to our stopping. Traffic carried on. It seemed we were the only people we could see amongst many that took the time to bother. Disappointed didn’t seem to explain my feelings at the time. Is two minutes once a year out of your life too much to ask?

[Futtocks]

Danny Boyle's Faces in the Sand memorials were just on the BBC news. I liked the idea and execution.