Are the RFL not accepting any new teams?

[newbe]

I think the RFL are keeping there powder dry until the new tv deal kicks in. With the start of the Southern Conference league this season, there might not be a league1. Talk of a Northern Conference league for teams of the possible defunct league 1, and play offs between the league's. This way new teams could enter the comp. Its only a whisper.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, newbe said:

I think the RFL are keeping there powder dry until the new tv deal kicks in. With the start of the Southern Conference league this season, there might not be a league1. Talk of a Northern Conference league for teams of the possible defunct league 1, and play offs between the league's. This way new teams could enter the comp. Its only a whisper.

Probably right , until they know their potential budgets , there's little they can commit to

[Damien]

If a potential team meets minimum criteria and can put aside some sort of a bond then there is absolutely no reason not to accept new teams. It is absurd to hold back the develop of the sport. Waiting for a new TV deal is a complete red herring.

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, owls said:

I really cant get my head around this decision, a team carrying the Manchester name based in the city of Manchester population 500,000 +  can only be good for the game surely,

is the RFL competent ?

I suggest that the events of the past year proved that no they are not, and indeed no one in the English game is competent to manage all the challenges which it faces.

[Damien]

I despair at the state of RL and how it is run in the UK. When it comes to expansion I just think of the wasted opportunities. A vibrant, proactive game would have sure as hell capitalised on the success of Catalans by now. The Italian sides are far weaker in the Pro 14 but even that musters 2 teams. A competent organisation would have been looking at RU and the money in France and thinking I want a piece of that. If RU was in RL's shoes it would have certainly had 2, if not 4 French teams, in Super League by now. A fairly basic £8 million French TV deal would  fund 4 teams to the same level as the English ones with change to spare. A competent organisation would think it imperative to give England a true Northern hemisphere rival from which they could get regular international competition and generate additional revenue. How much would a competitive 3 test series mid season raise  for the RFL coffers? That is before the glaringly obvious that the Southern hemisphere and NRL is drifting further and further away from England when it comes to the international game, to the extent that England are now struggling for opponents.

Instead we dither, supposedly strengthen our existing teams and the heartlands whilst slipping further and further behind our rivals who are speculating to accumulate. Now the RFL appears to be doing the same with North America. Let's just pat ourselves on the back with regards Toronto, which incidentally just fell into their lap, and do nothing to build on that. That is before looking at the mistakes and lost opportunities in our own back yard.

[Kayakman]

11 hours ago, bazza_merged said:

You could argue the amount, but I think it is fair for new 'pro' clubs to put up some sort of bond (e.g. 1 year salary cap for NL1 club) to:

1. Show that they are serious and have money

2. Cover player payments in case they go broke

Fair enough...but why always the same figure of 500 000 pounds?   You have to be careful and walk a fine line here...if the figure is too high it will drive away interest.   Business people want a return on all investment and not just have money sitting somewhere and not growing...for example, who gets the accrued interest on the bond money just sitting in an account somewhere?   That is a fair question.

[Nate90]

13 hours ago, absentee thoughtlord said:

'Manchester' is certainly catered for by several clubs. That much is true. But whether the RFL is shutting up shop regarding new applicants is a question they need to answer. Quickly.

We need to know 5 year and 10 year plans for overall structure (I'd be happy to see a move towards a conference structure), because there are a lot of non-heartland places where committed advocates of the game  exist and within which the possibility for sustainable growth is strong (my own area, Cornwall, is one such).

Are the Cornish Rebels still going in Redruth? 

How are they doing?

 

[paulwalker71]

I've now had opportunity to pick up a copy of League Express and read the full article (its a detailed full page piece by Martin Sadler) and it makes truly depressing reading. 

It charts how Manchester Rangers pulled together a range off partners - council departments, educational establishments and business investors - in 2012 with the eventual aim of launching a professional club. At every stage the RFL have either been difficult to communicate with, unresponsive or just flat-out unsupportive. This culminated in a final attempt last autumn when Rimmer told them to either take over an existing club or lodge a £500K escrow to make an appeal to nearby clubs for admission (with no guarantees). They were told that there is 'no position for a new team'.

They have also explored the idea of becoming a League 1 'feeder' team to Salford - but apparently Salford were told that any such team would have to be called Salford Reserves. They had investors lined up to the tune of £70K to fund this, but having been told to - in effect - destroy their identity and become Salford Reserves - unsurprisingly - the investors bailed at the idea. 

From reading the report it looks like Manchester Rangers have now accepted that they will never be allowed into the league, and have essentially walked away. The existing clubs and volunteers have been give blessing to apply to play in the NW Men's League, but there won't be anything more done to develop Manchester Rangers as a growing and developing entity.

The whole thing comes across as a total shambles, and rank incompetence by the RFL

[Damien]

That's a disgrace. No club in League 1 should have to pay a £500,000 bond either. There is absolutely no justification for it being such an obscene amount.

[yipyee]

13 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Can see the thinking behind the wariness of admitting a “new” Manchester club when we have Salford, Oldham, Swinton and Rochdale and Leigh and Wigan considered as Greater Manchester. 

I do doubt that The RFL has any plan in regards to the development of the game and the admission of new teams into the game. I think The RFL are going to alienate potential investors in the game by asking for a bond, if that’s true. 

I would be interested in seeing a report of all the clubs you mentioned and looking at the infrastructure, stadia, junior development, marketing, home grown players, community engagement etc... 

I would be surprised if Manchester would fall bottom of the pile looking at all the above, as far as I can recall koukash tried to buy some of the above and was unsuccessful?

Finally, football has man city, man utd, Burnley, Bolton, Wigan, Oldham, bury, rochdale, Stockport, Macclesfield, all in the top professional football league, Salford City have been bankrolled by multi millionaires and had back to back promotions for years in the amateur ranks.. they won't be saying 'sorry pals too many Manchester clubs to let you in next season'  

The RFL should demonstrate why Manchester do not have a licence awarded and justify why the other Manchester teams are keeping theirs!

[Damien]

We also have a situation where potential new clubs are being forced to comply with far stricter criteria than existing clubs. Some existing clubs are little better than amateur, are skint and have been homeless or living a nomadic existence for decades. They are essentially just a name and a brunch of players and in some cases haven't even played in the town they supposedly represent for years. I can only presume Rimmer knows where is power lies and where his votes are. It stinks.

[Kayakman]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

We also have a situation where potential new clubs are being forced to comply with far stricter criteria than existing clubs. Some existing clubs are little better than amateur, are skint and have been homeless or living a nomadic existence for decades. They are essentially just a name and a brunch of players and in some cases haven't even played in the town they supposedly represent for years. I can only presume Rimmer knows where is power lies and where his votes are. It stinks.

The RFL must learn to adapt....if they think they will 'squeeze' the new clubs for cash to just keep throwing away, doing things as they have always been done...is an incorrect assumption.   Change is needed, evolution must occur.

Let us hope it doesn't become "bloody in tooth and claw" as Tennyson so aptly put it.

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

If a potential team meets minimum criteria and can put aside some sort of a bond then there is absolutely no reason not to accept new teams. It is absurd to hold back the develop of the sport. Waiting for a new TV deal is a complete red herring.

Just asking.

If a team meets the criteria and and has someone to bankroll them ( Like Toronto)  why would they need to put up a bond if its not going going to cost the RFL a single penny?

[The Future is League]

44 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I've now had opportunity to pick up a copy of League Express and read the full article (its a detailed full page piece by Martin Sadler) and it makes truly depressing reading. 

It charts how Manchester Rangers pulled together a range off partners - council departments, educational establishments and business investors - in 2012 with the eventual aim of launching a professional club. At every stage the RFL have either been difficult to communicate with, unresponsive or just flat-out unsupportive. This culminated in a final attempt last autumn when Rimmer told them to either take over an existing club or lodge a £500K escrow to make an appeal to nearby clubs for admission (with no guarantees). They were told that there is 'no position for a new team'.

They have also explored the idea of becoming a League 1 'feeder' team to Salford - but apparently Salford were told that any such team would have to be called Salford Reserves. They had investors lined up to the tune of £70K to fund this, but having been told to - in effect - destroy their identity and become Salford Reserves - unsurprisingly - the investors bailed at the idea. 

From reading the report it looks like Manchester Rangers have now accepted that they will never be allowed into the league, and have essentially walked away. The existing clubs and volunteers have been give blessing to apply to play in the NW Men's League, but there won't be anything more done to develop Manchester Rangers as a growing and developing entity.

The whole thing comes across as a total shambles, and rank incompetence by the RFL

No doubt in my mind that the clown Rimmer is behind all this bond nonsense.

What's this clown going to do if,although extremely unlikely that the Broncos meet the Red devils in the challenge cup final?

What's the clown going to do if either, and again unlikely that the Red Devils or the Broncos get to the challenge.

It really is taxi time for Rimmer

[Chamey]

50 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

I've now had opportunity to pick up a copy of League Express and read the full article (its a detailed full page piece by Martin Sadler) and it makes truly depressing reading. 

It charts how Manchester Rangers pulled together a range off partners - council departments, educational establishments and business investors - in 2012 with the eventual aim of launching a professional club. At every stage the RFL have either been difficult to communicate with, unresponsive or just flat-out unsupportive. This culminated in a final attempt last autumn when Rimmer told them to either take over an existing club or lodge a £500K escrow to make an appeal to nearby clubs for admission (with no guarantees). They were told that there is 'no position for a new team'.

They have also explored the idea of becoming a League 1 'feeder' team to Salford - but apparently Salford were told that any such team would have to be called Salford Reserves. They had investors lined up to the tune of £70K to fund this, but having been told to - in effect - destroy their identity and become Salford Reserves - unsurprisingly - the investors bailed at the idea. 

From reading the report it looks like Manchester Rangers have now accepted that they will never be allowed into the league, and have essentially walked away. The existing clubs and volunteers have been give blessing to apply to play in the NW Men's League, but there won't be anything more done to develop Manchester Rangers as a growing and developing entity.

The whole thing comes across as a total shambles, and rank incompetence by the RFL

Jesus Christ.

[Colliwobble]

13 hours ago, Pyjamarama said:

I sometimes think there are people working for the RFL who have been planted there by our competitors. I think this is (yet another) huge mistake by the RFL. Manchester is one of our main cities that is known worldwide. Of all the clubs in Greater Manchester, half have been struggling along for years on very small crowds, and (lets be honest) not much sign that anything is going to change any season soon. So I can't see how admitting Manchester Rangers (& Liverpool for that matter) is going to have much impact on the existing clubs. What exactly have we got to lose?

The benefit of admitting Rangers is that we would have an ambitious new club based in one of the UKs largest cities, at a fantastic relatively new stadium - and as such will be more likely to attract more investment & quality sponsors than half of the existing Greater M/cr clubs. Heaven forbid that they may eat into the huge crowds that have been flocking to Rochdale, Oldham & Swinton.

The games national profile has never been lower. We need to encourage any new ambitious clubs in big cities to try to raise its profile. Instead, we now seem to have adopted a potentially damaging protectionist policy of not wanting to encourage new clubs in areas where there are existing clubs whose main aim appears to be to limp along on the edge of extinction year after year with no hint of a change in sight.

 

To be honest, I can't see how Manchester Rangers would add anything to the game.

To think a new club would do better than established clubs in GM, simply because it has the name 'Manchester' in it is folly!

When Toronto applied to the league, they already had serious potential backers and their own TV deal arranged. Unless Manchester Rangers have a similar plan, they would be doomed to fail. If people in that area want to go to a Rugby League match, they will go to Salford which is about a 30 minute drive from where the Rangers play at the Etihad Campus, but they don't because they are not interested!

We need to concentrate on selling into non-RL areas and building up from there (Coventry, Newcastle etc).

[Tommygilf]

This just epitomises the total lack of vision or belief in the game from the RFL (and we can be sure its them this time as its not a SL thing). The old boys club that is actually a pretty naff old boys club. At least those in the rest of society know where the finances are and use them. I really do hope the RL press run with this - there's a market for a journo to make a name for themselves here. Hell I'm in my last year at uni now I'm considering it! Manchester Rangers, what more do they have to do ffs!

No vision for the international game, no vision for expanding the club game. Its infuriating in the extreme and indicative of the shambles at Red Hall for the past 5 years.

 

[Damien]

22 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

Just asking.

If a team meets the criteria and and has someone to bankroll them ( Like Toronto)  why would they need to put up a bond if its not going going to cost the RFL a single penny?

I can understand a bond as it's a sign of good faith and as a sign that the potential club has the finance. I see it pretty much in the same way as a  deposit on a house you rent. If something happens then the bond can be used to ensure a club pays it's bills etc. I appreciate that Toronto are a bit of a one off but I still think it's a good idea as no one knows for sure about a new team. Where I take real exception is the amount. A £500,000 bond seems okay for a club going straight into Super League. For League 1 with no TV money it's ridiculous. Something like 50k seems reasonable for a UK based team.

[Pyjamarama]

1 hour ago, paulwalker71 said:

I've now had opportunity to pick up a copy of League Express and read the full article (its a detailed full page piece by Martin Sadler) and it makes truly depressing reading. 

It charts how Manchester Rangers pulled together a range off partners - council departments, educational establishments and business investors - in 2012 with the eventual aim of launching a professional club. At every stage the RFL have either been difficult to communicate with, unresponsive or just flat-out unsupportive. This culminated in a final attempt last autumn when Rimmer told them to either take over an existing club or lodge a £500K escrow to make an appeal to nearby clubs for admission (with no guarantees). They were told that there is 'no position for a new team'.

They have also explored the idea of becoming a League 1 'feeder' team to Salford - but apparently Salford were told that any such team would have to be called Salford Reserves. They had investors lined up to the tune of £70K to fund this, but having been told to - in effect - destroy their identity and become Salford Reserves - unsurprisingly - the investors bailed at the idea. 

From reading the report it looks like Manchester Rangers have now accepted that they will never be allowed into the league, and have essentially walked away. The existing clubs and volunteers have been give blessing to apply to play in the NW Men's League, but there won't be anything more done to develop Manchester Rangers as a growing and developing entity.

The whole thing comes across as a total shambles, and rank incompetence by the RFL

Anyone connected with Manchester Rangers regarding this must feel angry & totally demoralised. All that ambition, drive, energy, and potential stamped on & discarded by the sports very own 'governing' body.  I feel that other sports won't be so unambitious. Long term, I certainly wouldn't be completely shocked to see a pro RU or NFL team in Manchester within 2 or 3 decades. 

We can keep on saying that anyone outside the traditional heartlands areas 'just aren't interested'  & leave it at that. One of two things is likely to happen if we embrace such a policy - the game will probably just stay as it is (we're in effect abandoning the notion that anyone outside the heartlands areas cannot possibly begin to like RL) , or it will continue to decline. 

Or we don't give up, learn from previous mistakes, & continue to attempt to spread the game. As far as I know, science has yet to find a RL gene only found in the DNA of folk in SW Lancs, W.Yorks, Humberside & Cumbria. 

What is so frustrating is that we know we have a Rolls Royce of a sport, but we also have the Trotters Independant Trading Co of administrators/marketing/financing etc..running the game - which has more or less been the case since 1895.

The old saying that RL almost never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity rings true as ever.

 

[Marauder]

7 minutes ago, Pyjamarama said:

Anyone connected with Manchester Rangers regarding this must feel angry & totally demoralised. All that ambition, drive, energy, and potential stamped on & discarded by the sports very own 'governing' body.  I feel that other sports won't be so unambitious. Long term, I certainly wouldn't be completely shocked to see a pro RU or NFL team in Manchester within 2 or 3 decades. 

We can keep on saying that anyone outside the traditional heartlands areas 'just aren't interested'  & leave it at that. One of two things is likely to happen if we embrace such a policy - the game will probably just stay as it is (we're in effect abandoning the notion that anyone outside the heartlands areas cannot possibly begin to like RL) , or it will continue to decline. 

Or we don't give up, learn from previous mistakes, & continue to attempt to spread the game. As far as I know, science has yet to find a RL gene only found in the DNA of folk in SW Lancs, W.Yorks, Humberside & Cumbria. 

What is so frustrating is that we know we have a Rolls Royce of a sport, but we also have the Trotters Independant Trading Co of administrators/marketing/financing etc..running the game - which has more or less been the case since 1895.

The old saying that RL almost never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity rings true as ever.

 

I bet they can't show any more annoyance towards the RFL than the Bramley Buffaloes. 

[fevtom]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

A £500,000 bond seems okay for a club going straight into Super League. For League 1 with no TV money it's ridiculous. Something like 50k seems reasonable for a UK based team.

Exactly this. Any team paying half a million bond would be looking at getting into Super League ASAP. Is it really such a bad thing if a Manchester team (or any other prospective newcomers) had a medium term goal of laying foundations and becoming a competative League One/Championship team perhaps like Newcastle or even York?

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, Colliwobble said:

To be honest, I can't see how Manchester Rangers would add anything to the game.

To think a new club would do better than established clubs in GM, simply because it has the name 'Manchester' in it is folly!

When Toronto applied to the league, they already had serious potential backers and their own TV deal arranged. Unless Manchester Rangers have a similar plan, they would be doomed to fail. If people in that area want to go to a Rugby League match, they will go to Salford which is about a 30 minute drive from where the Rangers play at the Etihad Campus, but they don't because they are not interested!

We need to concentrate on selling into non-RL areas and building up from there (Coventry, Newcastle etc).

How are the current clubs justifying their place in the pro leagues?

I think the rangers have done better as they have a base actually in the place they say they will play, had big sponsorship in place and had a plan to develop local talent.

How are Oldham and swinton any better or have plans to improve from their current predicament.

Salford is not Manchester... as any man city fan will tell you 

[owls]

6 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Worked well in Sheffield

Sheffield eagles problem was never having a permanent base which they could call home,  you can not develop a permanent fan base without having  your own stadium, Manchester would have that,

big mistake by the RFL,

[Oliver Clothesoff]

A buy in clause is fine, in fact it’s a good idea, what isn’t a good idea is the value of the clause they’ve allegedly set for a club to join League One, alongside them then not being a bonafide full member of the RFL or having any voting rights. They’ll alienate potential investors that way. 

I’m not a fan of effectively buying out clubs and potentially then moving them to a different end of the country. 

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, Chamey said:

6 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

I've now had opportunity to pick up a copy of League Express and read the full article (its a detailed full page piece by Martin Sadler) and it makes truly depressing reading. 

It charts how Manchester Rangers pulled together a range off partners - council departments, educational establishments and business investors - in 2012 with the eventual aim of launching a professional club. At every stage the RFL have either been difficult to communicate with, unresponsive or just flat-out unsupportive. This culminated in a final attempt last autumn when Rimmer told them to either take over an existing club or lodge a £500K escrow to make an appeal to nearby clubs for admission (with no guarantees). They were told that there is 'no position for a new team'.

They have also explored the idea of becoming a League 1 'feeder' team to Salford - but apparently Salford were told that any such team would have to be called Salford Reserves. They had investors lined up to the tune of £70K to fund this, but having been told to - in effect - destroy their identity and become Salford Reserves - unsurprisingly - the investors bailed at the idea. 

From reading the report it looks like Manchester Rangers have now accepted that they will never be allowed into the league, and have essentially walked away. The existing clubs and volunteers have been give blessing to apply to play in the NW Men's League, but there won't be anything more done to develop Manchester Rangers as a growing and developing entity.

The whole thing comes across as a total shambles, and rank incompetence by the RFL

Jesus Christ.

I honestly don't why anyone is surprised by this, the game's administrators in the UK have always looked after the traditional members at the expense of expansion clubs.

110 or so years ago when several Welsh clubs were in the league, were they given any sort of help or concessions so they might have a chance to succeed in hostile RU territory?  I might be wrong but I very much doubt that they were.

More recently, in 1999 when a financial crunch hit due to Sky cutting the TV money back, Gateshead — who'd been made to go without any of that TV money — and Sheffield were sacrificed for traditional clubs like Hull and Huddersfield in short order.

The demands being made now on new clubs are just a continuation of the game's long-standing trend of favouring its traditional clubs whatever the cost might be.