Lack of respect for referees.

[Trojan]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I think they are dropped if they’ve had a mare, mate.   We could comment on the TJs forever and a day too, but debated decisions will always be there, Players debating decisions etc etc etc, doesn’t have to be if someone steps in.

My question isn't just this decision.  I've never seen him have a good game.  The first time I saw him ref at Fev about ten or more years ago, he allowed a try when the "scorer" clearly put the ball down over the in goal touchline.  He was right there on the spot, but he still awarded it.  The Fev fans gave him a hard time on his way back to the sheds, but he just laughed.  The man is a disgrace, and yet he's a SL official.

[Lowdesert]

2 minutes ago, Trojan said:

My question isn't just this decision.  I've never seen him have a good game.  The first time I saw him ref at Fev about ten or more years ago, he allowed a try when the "scorer" clearly put the ball down over the in goal touchline.  He was right there on the spot, but he still awarded it.  The Fev fans gave him a hard time on his way back to the sheds, but he just laughed.  The man is a disgrace, and yet he's a SL official.

Not getting drawn into that one as I don’t wholely agree mate.

We’ve got a player at Hull who clearly doesn’t like to put the ball down, so i’ll channel my efforts into that!

[deluded pom?]

5 hours ago, RP London said:

pot and kettle...

Kayakman is as entitled as anyone else to an opinion and by and large and on many subjects it is interesting and insightful because he hasn't got the history we have in the game.

He's Canadian. They don't have proper history like we do.

[Kayakman]

1 minute ago, deluded pom? said:

He's Canadian. They don't have proper history like we do.

DOES IT NEVER END!!!!!!!!!

[deluded pom?]

Just now, Kayakman said:

DOES IT NEVER END!!!!!!!!!

Yours ends a couple of hundred years ago. Shouldn't you be at school?

[Kayakman]

26 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

Yours ends a couple of hundred years ago. Shouldn't you be at school?

Are you crazy?   There have been people in North America since time immemorial....if you keep this up you are getting a detention.

[Allora]

On 13/05/2019 at 18:44, Dave T said:

I watched a fair few games on TV this weekend and it becoming clear that the respect for the ref is going out of the window. We are seeing time and time again that players are arguing with the ref, surrounding them, showing disgust at decisions, basically making themselves look absolute tools. 

There were many instances in the NRL games, but two stood out where there was a Parramatta sin-binning and the player was shouting at the ref, barracking him, when the Parra player should have seen red rather than yellow. The ref was far too tolerant and the Parra skipper should have been binned at least. There was an argument about past incidents in other games which was pathetic, unnecessary, and for me, it brought the game into disrepute.

There was another in the NRL where Canberra questioned a decision by bringing two captains over to the ref, the ref said he would speak to one (the one who attended the coin toss) and they kicked off and showed a complete lack of respect, being sarcastic, again bringing up past games. I would absolutely have binned him for lack of respect.

We also saw it in the Wire game, where a penalty against Wire saw the Hughes question the decision (as skipper I think), yet two other Wire players gobbed off at him too. At the very least this should have seen Wire marched a further 10. 

This is all becoming the norm, and we are setting a dangerous precedent - we often pride ourselves on the respect our players show, and tbh IMHO it is misguided - our players act like complete tools.

Rod Studd (in his usual provocative style) made the point about how the ref was barracked by Wigan fans for daring to refer something to the VR: 

 

We are setting ourselves up here not taking actions on players and fans.

Clint Gutherson apologized for his comments to the referee and said he was out of line with his behavior on national TV this week.

 

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Not getting drawn into that one as I don’t wholely agree mate.

We’ve got a player at Hull who clearly doesn’t like to put the ball down, so i’ll channel my efforts into that!

You are correct not to get drawn into that one. As a neutral at most games I watch Robert Hicks has referreed outstandingly well over the last 12-18 months

Yes refs make errors but significantly less than players and they get a lot more decisions correct than partisan fans.

All referee appointments are based on form so if you have a bad game or make a big mistake then you will get a lesser match or even miss out. The weekly appointments show this

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, Kayakman said:

Are you crazy?   There have been people in North America since time immemorial....if you keep this up you are getting a detention.

But it wasn't Canada then was it. Stand in the corner for the rest of the day.

[Kayakman]

32 minutes ago, deluded pom? said:

But it wasn't Canada then was it. Stand in the corner for the rest of the day.

Canada actually means 'meeting place and it was, indeed, a meeting place form many first nations  peoples for eons....basic history. 

Do I have to make you write lines?.

[fighting irish]

On 13/05/2019 at 09:53, henage said:

Refs need to stop talking to the players using 1st name . If they get a mouth full , give a penalty , if it continues walk them up field 10 metres its not hard . As for some of the supporters well , its embarrassing .  

If we are shopping around looking for reasons why our game is not better supported, its the behaviour of ''fans'' like that. We should ban them for life, then we might have a chance of attracting and keeping some decent people in the game. 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Allora said:

Clint Gutherson apologized for his comments to the referee and said he was out of line with his behavior on national TV this week.

 

Whose Clint? 

[Just Browny]

St. Helens RLFC.

[RP London]

On 16/05/2019 at 10:52, Trojan said:

Robert Hicks's knock-on decision against Wigan was a joke.  It wasn't high speed, he didn't need to make a snap decision, he had several views of the incident and still came up with the wrong answer.  If referees are to have respect then inferior refs needs dropping from the list. IMO Robert Hicks fits this category and always has done.

The problem is that the ref got it spot on, almost every pro and coach that they have interviewed about it have agreed. The problem is not the ref its the rule.. which is rubbish. IMHO there is no way that that should be a knock on, none at all, BUT by the laws of the game it was a knock on and he made the right call which may be daft in both your eyes and mine but if he had gone the other way he would have been wrong and should then have been dropped. 

One of the biggest problems IMHO is that the crowd dont know the rules well enough (i did not know this one for what its worth, I honestly thought he had made a big gaff until i heard the players and "experts" interviewed)... there is no explanation in the ground just "try/no try" to the point sometimes you dont even know what it has been disallowed for.. It would be quite nice if there was an acceptance that the refs, by and large, get decisions right and have more knowledge on the actual laws than the fans.

[Trojan]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

The problem is that the ref got it spot on, almost every pro and coach that they have interviewed about it have agreed. The problem is not the ref its the rule.. which is rubbish. IMHO there is no way that that should be a knock on, none at all, BUT by the laws of the game it was a knock on and he made the right call which may be daft in both your eyes and mine but if he had gone the other way he would have been wrong and should then have been dropped. 

One of the biggest problems IMHO is that the crowd dont know the rules well enough (i did not know this one for what its worth, I honestly thought he had made a big gaff until i heard the players and "experts" interviewed)... there is no explanation in the ground just "try/no try" to the point sometimes you dont even know what it has been disallowed for.. It would be quite nice if there was an acceptance that the refs, by and large, get decisions right and have more knowledge on the actual laws than the fans.

Well if that's the law then the law is an ass.  The ball hit the Wigan player, IMO making a it knock on by the Warrington player, surely Wigan should be entitled to advantage.  After all if a kicked ball hits a player (rather then he plays at it) the tackle count is reset to zero.

[Just Browny]

5 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Well if that's the law then the law is an ass.  The ball hit the Wigan player, IMO making a it knock on by the Warrington player, surely Wigan should be entitled to advantage.  After all if a kicked ball hits a player (rather then he plays at it) the tackle count is reset to zero.

Which is precisely what the video referee gave.

[Trojan]

6 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Which is precisely what the video referee gave.

I meant advantage in terms of a free play.

 

[redjonn]

Their's part of the problem... even when correct to the rules he's deemed wrong... where's the respect in not acknowledging he was correct in his call.

Yep the rules need refining as this situation highlighted.

Wouldn't it be good if the commentators on the game and pundits now said the decision was the correct call and apologise. Given that they strongly disagreed at the time. That would gain my respect. They can then campaign for a change of rules. 

 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Trojan said:

I meant advantage in terms of a free play.

 

Free play has been scrapped and even free play stopped at a knock on.

[Trojan]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Free play has been scrapped and even free play stopped at a knock on.

Fair play. I wasn't aware.  But you must admit Wigan got no real advantage from a Warrington offence.  Something wrong there.  Doesn't alter my opinion of Hicks BT|W.

[redjonn]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Free play has been scrapped and even free play stopped at a knock on.

yep, but I guess the incident makes a persuasive reason to have it.... 

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Fair play. I wasn't aware.  But you must admit Wigan got no real advantage from a Warrington offence.  Something wrong there.  Doesn't alter my opinion of Hicks BT|W.

They got the scrum from a Wire knock on. That is what you get from a knock on. I don't agree with the rule, but it hit the Wigan hand and went forward and that is deemed a knock on. 

I personally see it as an accidental touch just like when the ball rebounds off you and goes into touch it is ignored.

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, redjonn said:

yep, but I guess the incident makes a persuasive reason to have it.... 

No, that would have been stopped with free play. The issue here is that Wigan were deemed to have knocked on too. That would be stopped under free play.

[Cheshire Setter]

We can’t change the rules for one incident just because the effort deserved a try...  I don’t like the rule either but that’s the way it has been for a long time - if we really were that concerned about it there’d be hundreds of us writing angry letters to the RFL.   Since there aren’t (I’m guessing ) then I doubt there’ll be a change anytime soon.

In the big scheme of things it didn’t make a difference to the result anyway, due to the Sarginson “double movement” try.

[dkw]

10 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

We can’t change the rules for one incident just because the effort deserved a try...  I don’t like the rule either but that’s the way it has been for a long time - if we really were that concerned about it there’d be hundreds of us writing angry letters to the RFL.   Since there aren’t (I’m guessing ) then I doubt there’ll be a change anytime soon.

In the big scheme of things it didn’t make a difference to the result anyway, due to the Sarginson “double movement” try.

The exact same thing happened in the Warrington game the day after, but because it didn't end up in a try nothing happened, the ref gave Warrington a scrum and everyone got on with it, the commentators barely even mentioned it and not a single player complained.