Fri 27 Sept: SL Semi Final: St Helens v Wigan Warriors KO 7.45pm (TV)

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, Chris22 said:

We were irrepressible tonight. Last year, the cup semi final defeat to Catalans clearly weighed heavily on our mind. On tonight's evidence, our cup final defeat has spurred us on. We played with a determination that I have not seen from Saints for a long time.

As has been pointed out, tonight counts for nothing in 2 weeks. If we play Wigan, our 3 other wins against them in 2019 count for nothing. We know that from big game defeats to Warrington recently. 

We deserve a title. The coach deserves a title. But you don't always get what you deserve. Saying that, play at or close to our best and we will win.

If we don't, it will hurt. But in time, I would reflect on the Holbrook era as one where he brought joy back to watching Saints. And I'll always remember him and be grateful for that.

Finally, how good was Luke Thompson? Unstoppable tonight. The other 16 weren't bad either!

Maybe we should have a system that gives the lead leaders a 2nd bite if they lose in the "first final".   

Sorry.... but if Wigan win against Salford and then go on to win... what was the point of this game... or if Salford win after having lost to Wigan... what was the point of their first play-off game.

Great performance by Saints... but it wasn't essential do or die as both teams had 2nd chance... except now Saints as if they lose a game in the play-offs, in this the final, they are out/no 2nd chance... whereas the winners would have had a 2nd chance. For me its a joke... sorry

 

 

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

Maybe we should have a system that gives the lead leaders a 2nd bite if they lose in the "first final".   

Sorry.... but if Wigan win against Salford and then go on to win... what was the point of this game... or if Salford win after having lost to Wigan... what was the point of their first play-off game.

Great performance by Saints... but it wasn't essential do or die as both teams had 2nd chance... except now Saints as if they lose a game in the play-offs, in this the final, they are out/no 2nd chance... whereas the winners would have had a 2nd chance. For me its a joke... sorry

 

 

 

Or do you automatically put the league leaders into the Grand Final, which puts more meaning on finishing first? 

 

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Or do you automatically put the league leaders into the Grand Final, which puts more meaning on finishing first? 

 

that would AOK... although some get concerned that extra weeks off will impact their performance. Unless it was just top 3... league leaders straight to final... 2nd v 3rd for other final position.  Unless massive points difference in which case scrap the 2nd v 3rd and 2nd goes straight to final.

Of course being a little tongue in cheek regards replaying the final - but seems as daft as given teams a 2nd bite in a short round of play-offs and be consistent in giving all the same. As in this case the league leaders through even more success (being more successful in play-offs) don't get the 2nd bite like the lower finished and less successful teams in the play-offs.. in this case Wigan/Salford.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

22 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

We were irrepressible tonight. Last year, the cup semi final defeat to Catalans clearly weighed heavily on our mind. On tonight's evidence, our cup final defeat has spurred us on. We played with a determination that I have not seen from Saints for a long time.

As has been pointed out, tonight counts for nothing in 2 weeks. If we play Wigan, our 3 other wins against them in 2019 count for nothing. We know that from big game defeats to Warrington recently. 

We deserve a title. The coach deserves a title. But you don't always get what you deserve. Saying that, play at or close to our best and we will win.

If we don't, it will hurt. But in time, I would reflect on the Holbrook era as one where he brought joy back to watching Saints. And I'll always remember him and be grateful for that.

Finally, how good was Luke Thompson? Unstoppable tonight. The other 16 weren't bad either!

Good post but no-one deserves anything, if you don't win then you didn't deserve it by definition of what you said earlier about your other wins being meaningless, no good putting on the style and winning big if you can't dio it when it really matters.

[Chris22]

4 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Good post but no-one deserves anything, if you don't win then you didn't deserve it by definition of what you said earlier about your other wins being meaningless, no good putting on the style and winning big if you can't dio it when it really matters.

Aye, the pressure is on. We haven't handled it before. Tonight was the first time for a long time when we have performed when it matters. Hope we can this time.

[Davo5]

39 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Hahaha, can't hack a bit of banter, typical goon fan, always up your own. At least my club never cheated to avoid relegation, at my club as ramshackle and a bag o poop doesn't employ dirty shitehouse players and grubby tactics week in week out.

yes you've a great amount of talent, your system is prodigious, your trophy cabinet has silverware, but toight you got absolutely drummed and pathetically you start throwing your dummy out cos a fan of another club said some hurtful things.

get a grip sonshine, you're losing it.

It’s really hard being 14,all those hormones,don’t worry soon be over son.

[Old Frightful]

1 hour ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

Aaaaw, diddums, does it burn getting embarrassed like that

I went to see Hull FC play at Saints earlier on this year. 

Feeling good when we were 0-10 up in no time.

Not feeling quite so good after 80 minutes and the score had moved on to 62-10.

I would say I was embarrassed by that experience and several more involving Hull FC during the season.

And you have to post tripe like that?

 

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

12 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Aye, the pressure is on. We haven't handled it before. Tonight was the first time for a long time when we have performed when it matters. Hope we can this time.

certainly tonight was more the side that has performed for most of the season, and yes the pressure is on, you were outplayed by warrington in the CC, not really a case of folding, you were simply beaten by a better team who played out their skins to nullify you. If you lose the GF that will really, really hurt, I know you've played some fantastic rugby and it's well worth the admission fee but ATEOTD winning the silverware is what counts and after last year to repeat that would be gut wrenching for your fans and the club as a whole.

[Rupert Prince]

30 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Or do you automatically put the league leaders into the Grand Final, which puts more meaning on finishing first? 

 

Or just stop the endless speculation and accept that Saints this year are easily the best side.   They have made the final with one go and either Wigan or Salford  will have to play yet again to get there. 

On other occasions it may be much closer and the 2nd chance options might be very useful for the side that finishes top.

[Denton Rovers RLFC]

Just now, Old Frightful said:

I went to see Hull FC play at Saints earlier on this year. 

Feeling good when we were 0-10 up in no time.

Not feeling quite so good after 80 minutes and the score had moved on to 62-10.

I would say I was embarrassed by that experience and several more involving Hull FC during the season.

And you have to post tripe like that?

 

What tripe, I posted a bit of a dig/banter due to the result and a couple of wigan fans  had a meltdown/throwing their dummies out the pram.. instead of you writing clueless nonsense bother to read the thread/previous responses.

Sticking up for Wigan fans, sicko!

[Rupert Prince]

3 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

I went to see Hull FC play at Saints earlier on this year. 

Feeling good when we were 0-10 up in no time.

Not feeling quite so good after 80 minutes and the score had moved on to 62-10.

I would say I was embarrassed by that experience and several more involving Hull FC during the season.

And you have to post tripe like that?

 

When a team like Wigan tonight were busy looking in their diaries, wondering what day of the week it was, then results like 40 - 10 or 62 - 10 are what happens. 

Frankly losing 14 - 4 was a result for Wigan. And doubly frankly, they don't want to play Saints again in the wet.

[Old Frightful]

8 minutes ago, Denton Rovers RLFC said:

What tripe, I posted a bit of a dig/banter due to the result and a couple of wigan fans  had a meltdown/throwing their dummies out the pram.. instead of you writing clueless nonsense bother to read the thread/previous responses.

Sticking up for Wigan fans, sicko!

The vast majority of your input on here is exactly the sort of stuff you used to post on RLFans, where they eventually became tired of you and you were banned.

If you continue on this forum in the same vein then I imagine a similar scenario will occur.

I point out that Hull FC were embarrassed on several occasions this year, conceding far more than Wigan did tonight and you call it "clueless nonsense"?

And "sicko"...really?

[absentee thoughtlord]

1 hour ago, Chris22 said:

 

We deserve a title. The coach deserves a title. But you don't always get what you deserve. Saying that, play at or close to our best and we will win.

 

Finally, how good was Luke Thompson? Unstoppable tonight. The other 16 weren't bad either!

From a pragmatic viewpoint I agree. You have been far and away the best side all year and deserving of the title. And yet the idea of either Wigan or St Helens being engraved on the trophy again leaves me cold. The underdog effect is surely strong!

And, yes, Thompson is something else. An outstanding athlete and competitor.

[Chris22]

Just now, absentee thoughtlord said:

From a pragmatic viewpoint I agree. You have been far and away the best side all year and deserving of the title. And yet the idea of either Wigan or St Helens being engraved on the trophy again leaves me cold. The underdog effect is surely strong!

And, yes, Thompson is something else. An outstanding athlete and competitor.

Yeah I get that. The competition would benefit from a new winner.

It was a shame that Huddersfield or Castleford never took that step. Even as a Saints fan, Warrington winning the competition would have been good for the league. They should have won at least 2 in recent years 

[Old Frightful]

Onto the game and Saints were on fine form tonight.

From the first minute they played at a speed that Wigan were always going to struggle to contain. Thompson was very impressive, as has been said, he could make a name for himself in the NRL if he fancied it. The half time stats were very revealing, possession 60/40 in Saints' favour, not many teams could live with that and the game was just about over at half time. Onto the second half and within 90 seconds, Wigan were facing having to defend a repeat set under their own posts, impressive stuff from Saints.

A word on Tony Clubb, just what does this man have to do to incur the wrath of the referee?

I felt as though he shouldn't have been playing tonight after a couple of incidents last week, then he goes and confirms his cheap shot status tonight.

I'd like to think at least a one match ban awaits him come Tuesday.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

40 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Or just stop the endless speculation and accept that Saints this year are easily the best side.   They have made the final with one go and either Wigan or Salford  will have to play yet again to get there. 

On other occasions it may be much closer and the 2nd chance options might be very useful for the side that finishes top.

I have no idea what you’re on about. 

The idea around putting 1st place in the regular season into the Grand Final has little to do with Saints. The league leaders shield has always been much maligned in Rugby League and some say it’s not celebrated enough or there’s been little reward to finishing first. The idea of rewarding a team that finishes top over a 29 game regular season with a place in the Grand Final offers a solution to both issues around the league leaders shield, a trophy criminally underrated and poorly rewarded trophy, IMO.  

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

20 minutes ago, Old Frightful said:

Onto the game and Saints were on fine form tonight.

From the first minute they played at a speed that Wigan were always going to struggle to contain. Thompson was very impressive, as has been said, he could make a name for himself in the NRL if he fancied it. The half time stats were very revealing, possession 60/40 in Saints' favour, not many teams could live with that and the game was just about over at half time. Onto the second half and within 90 seconds, Wigan were facing having to defend a repeat set under their own posts, impressive stuff from Saints.

A word on Tony Clubb, just what does this man have to do to incur the wrath of the referee?

I felt as though he shouldn't have been playing tonight after a couple of incidents last week, then he goes and confirms his cheap shot status tonight.

I'd like to think at least a one match ban awaits him come Tuesday.

That Clubb incident was embarrassing. 

Kendall’s “we’ve all got games coming up” comment should be questioned? It was almost as if he was admitting he was refereeing differently because of the time of year and Clubb’s “it was a clash of heads” comment was almost as comical as his and Wigan’s performance. 

Still, it mattered little but it was not unexpected at that stage of the game with that shoreline. 

[Saintslass]

Late to the party again but I've ruined myself watching the match back on TV since returning from the game.  

What a game!  Not what I expected at all.  I thought there was a real risk of us losing tonight given our butter fingers over the last few weeks and so couldn't quite believe the drubbing we gave Wigan in the end (bar the last 15 minutes which was back to butter fingers, sadly).  I thoroughly enjoyed the match - beating Wigan is always good for a laugh but beating Wigan well while performing brilliantly for most of the game is an exceptional experience.  

However … I can't help but agree with our esteemed chairman when he recalls the time we flattened Leeds in the semi final only yet again to be beaten by them in the final two weeks later.  If it IS Wigan we meet at Old Trafford then I sincerely hope Saints come out with the same kind of determined, barnstorming and confident performance that they gave tonight rather than revert to butterfingers because if they don't then they will lose and that will hurt.

If it's Salford we meet then all bets are off and while it would hurt to lose after being such a good team all year, I wouldn't find it as bad as losing to Wigan and to be honest I wouldn't be as disappointed as I was to lose to Warrington at Wembley because for me personally I wanted the Challenge Cup this year; I wasn't bothered about Old Trafford.  Not that I'd turn OT down if the trophy was offered to Saints!  But my heart was for the Challenge Cup and I'm still not totally over the disappointment even now.

But having said all that, nothing can dent what was a very, very enjoyable night putting Wigan well and truly to the sword.  There is nothing quite like the feeling of watching Saints trounce Wigan at home!

[ojx]

Yay, St. Helens vs Wigan GF.  That's original. Not like we've seen the same fixture 10 times in 2 years.

[Old Frightful]

6 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Still, it mattered little but it was not unexpected at that stage of the game with that shoreline. 

I know it rained a bit but I'm not sure it got that bad.

[JohnM]

Of course its not much fun to hear your club put to the sword as Wigan were last night. However, they lost to the best Saints manager/team combination in several generations. Not only did they outperform every other club in the league, they did it in a way that no other Saints team ever has. 

I well remember the days of Shane Cooper for example. Great player but nasty niggling cheat, too. 

Naturally I want Wigan to win at the  GF but its difficult to argue that a Saints victory is something that would be just reward for a great season for them. 

The only thing they need to remember is that from now on, the only way is down.

[Curly perm]

7 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Kendall’s “we’ve all got games coming up” comment should be questioned? It was almost as if he was admitting he was refereeing differently because of the time of year 

Don’t think he was necessarily refereeing differently but it was like he was telling them that this game was over so just play the time down without any incident, which is odd for a ref to come out with during a game.

Suppose it was the truth though. 

[Rupert Prince]

7 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I have no idea what you’re on about. 

The idea around putting 1st place in the regular season into the Grand Final has little to do with Saints. The league leaders shield has always been much maligned in Rugby League and some say it’s not celebrated enough or there’s been little reward to finishing first. The idea of rewarding a team that finishes top over a 29 game regular season with a place in the Grand Final offers a solution to both issues around the league leaders shield, a trophy criminally underrated and poorly rewarded trophy, IMO.  

I was not talking about Saints either.  I specifically referred to when we may have a season where clubs are close together.

I do not think a play off should just send the top team straight into the GF. Indeed to do that would not make it much of a "Grand" final. However the system does give every help to the nr1 team.

If as it may transpire Saints are head and shoulders above other teams then why indeed bother with a play off?  But - all the other games were hard fought and the point of the current system is to bring the top 5 together as and eye catching profitable(?) mini tournament to showcase our game.

Whoever gets to the GF to face, in this case, St Helens will have to raise their game. And again is this not also the point?  Clubs who wish to progress have to improve... inevitably 4 will lose but the experience which exposes their deficiencies ought to prompt them to improve themselves.

In this context of course next week's game between Salford and Wigan is going to be intriguing. As such this alone surely justifies the system.

[Davo5]

10 hours ago, 7723 said:

I honestly can’t see us beating Salford next week. So it could be a good omen for Salford in the final. 

On another note, I would love to see the metre making stats of our props compared to Saints. We can’t have had a prop make more than 50 metres today.

A front row containing Clubb,Powell and Flower wouldn’t make yards in the championship never mind a red hot Saints pack.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

8 hours ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I have no idea what you’re on about. 

The idea around putting 1st place in the regular season into the Grand Final has little to do with Saints. The league leaders shield has always been much maligned in Rugby League and some say it’s not celebrated enough or there’s been little reward to finishing first. The idea of rewarding a team that finishes top over a 29 game regular season with a place in the Grand Final offers a solution to both issues around the league leaders shield, a trophy criminally underrated and poorly rewarded trophy, IMO.  

 

Having more than a week off surely would be a disadvantage?