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Poower Lad

Seriously how bad was that crowd today

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2 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

I understand fully what you’re saying Harold. 

And your point is part of the wider problem of the game and it’s struggles to diversify and expand. You say ‘there are only so many rl fans’. Internationals are about creating an event and enticing casuals, something our game still fails to grasp.  70k people don’t fill Twitenham because they are union fans 

I'm always the first to put my hand up and stick the boot into union, but does anyone really believe that? Football is often dire, and stadiums remain full. If you're brought up on union, you probably like union. I was brought up on football, can count the number of interesting games I've watched this season on one hand, but I'll still be there next game. 

When it's in you, there's not much you can do about it. I've no doubt those people that attend twick are interested in what they've paid to watch. I can show many examples of what disinterest in sport looks like. It usually features lots of empty seats.

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7 minutes ago, Mr Wind Up said:

I'm always the first to put my hand up and stick the boot into union, but does anyone really believe that? Football is often dire, and stadiums remain full. If you're brought up on union, you probably like union. I was brought up on football, can count the number of interesting games I've watched this season on one hand, but I'll still be there next game. 

When it's in you, there's not much you can do about it. I've no doubt those people that attend twick are interested in what they've paid to watch. I can show many examples of what disinterest in sport looks like. It usually features lots of empty seats.

Of course it’s true, I know from friends and associates who treat it as a day on the p!ss, with some background ‘entertainment’. Same with the corporate aspect. 

This also applies to the union premiership club games at Wembley, where they get 50k+. These people go for an event, not week by week fans. 

RL biggest problem is the inability to bridge social divides, engage with casual fans and put on an event (with the exception of the World Cup in UK which showed it could be done). Whilst the media certainly doesn’t help, we are as much to blame for being too insular as a sport. 

Football, which is also traditionally a working class game, has managed to successfully do this

Edited by DoubleD
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The Tongan fans with their colour , flags , enthusiasm , noise and fantastic singing was all I picked up and it was marvellous 

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6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Of course it’s true, I know from friends and associates who treat it as a day on the p!ss, with some background ‘entertainment’. Same with the corporate aspect. 

This also applies to the union premiership club games at Wembley, where they get 50k+. These people go for an event, not week by week fans. 

But you wouldn't say there's a difference between the union national team and club games? I'm under no illusions that the club game is small, as they mostly play in small stadiums. So when they take it to Wembley, they do have to add gimmicks to bring casuals along.

The corporate aspect is the same in every sport. Most VIP seating is companies buying up seats and using it as a social function with their associates. 

I think the number of people treating it as a #### up and not caring one iota about union is probably really small. I'm sure there are some, like at any any sporting event, but it's likely a negligible number.

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Just a thought, if you watch back to some older Kiwi v Aus games, you will have seen tonnes of fans of Polynesian decent. I was at the 2006 Tri Nations in Wellington and noticed the same.

Could it be that a lot of these people would cheer on NZ against GB/Aus, but would shout for an Island nation if they were being represented? When you see high profile NZ Warriors games, it is exactly the same. We haven't just suddenly found 20k Tongan people in NZ who love RL. They always did, we've just given them something to identify with.

 

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17 minutes ago, Mr Wind Up said:

But you wouldn't say there's a difference between the union national team and club games? I'm under no illusions that the club game is small, as they mostly play in small stadiums. So when they take it to Wembley, they do have to add gimmicks to bring casuals along.

The corporate aspect is the same in every sport. Most VIP seating is companies buying up seats and using it as a social function with their associates. 

I think the number of people treating it as a #### up and not caring one iota about union is probably really small. I'm sure there are some, like at any any sporting event, but it's likely a negligible number.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this then

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Just now, Northern Eel said:

NZ and England played out a T20 game overnight to a threadbare crowd. I await the ICC deciding that this means there is no future in T20 and that the game is on its knees. 

We can live in hope, it’s not cricket, it’s hit and hope

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1 hour ago, Mr Wind Up said:

But you wouldn't say there's a difference between the union national team and club games? I'm under no illusions that the club game is small, as they mostly play in small stadiums. So when they take it to Wembley, they do have to add gimmicks to bring casuals along.

The corporate aspect is the same in every sport. Most VIP seating is companies buying up seats and using it as a social function with their associates. 

I think the number of people treating it as a #### up and not caring one iota about union is probably really small. I'm sure there are some, like at any any sporting event, but it's likely a negligible number.

Double D is right. Take, for ecample, the Six Nations. Plenty of people who have no real interest in the sport attend those matches. The reason they sell well is because they're competitive fixtures between the home nations in a sport with a big imprint in the country's consciousness. It's a similar situation to how the English take such a keen interest in the Ashes - the tournaments become vehicles through which the long-standing emnity and rivalry between particular nations can be expressed.

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3 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Quite respectable in the end, but really should be higher for a double header of that nature 

It was a triple header, so dividing that figure by three gives an average of less than 8,500 for the three matches.  Pitiful.

Edited by Big Picture

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7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

It was a triple header, so dividing that figure by three gives an average of less than 8,500 for the three matches.  Pitiful.

On that basis it is, but my point was the forecast was about 7k attendance a couple of weeks out. It was respectable but as I said, should’ve been a lot higher

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I always think that double or triple headers result in smaller crowds than individual stand alone matches.  I hate the trend towards the cheap, easy option of having them. Its purely laziness by the game's administration.

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

It was a triple header, so dividing that figure by three gives an average of less than 8,500 for the three matches.  Pitiful.

If you are comparing events with multiple games, have you seen any coverage of the ICC T20 World Cup Cricket Qualifiers in UAE? I would imagine if you applied the same logic, the average crowd be less than 100.

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Be interesting to see 2020 NRL opener at Eden Park between Warriors-Raiders. A double-header between two cities and two codes. Auckland Blues-Canberra Brumbies.

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"It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires"  - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."  - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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22 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

If you are comparing events with multiple games, have you seen any coverage of the ICC T20 World Cup Cricket Qualifiers in UAE? I would imagine if you applied the same logic, the average crowd be less than 100.

I seen a little . It’s one of them where they announce the crowd changes to the team

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9 hours ago, Omott91 said:

25, 275@ Eden Park. 

For comparison, the 2006 GB tour/tri-nations NZ v GB games got 17 005 in Christchurch and 16 401 in Wellington. The 2010 4-nations NZ v England match got 20 681. The 2014 NZ/Eng 4-nations game in Dunedin got 15 863.

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It was a triple header, so dividing that figure by three gives an average of less than 8,500 for the three matches.  Pitiful.

Lol what. No one calculates averages like that.

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4 hours ago, Damien said:

I always think that double or triple headers result in smaller crowds than individual stand alone matches.  I hate the trend towards the cheap, easy option of having them. Its purely laziness by the game's administration.

The odd double header makes sense when one of the fixtures would be very poorly attended as a stand alone fixture

But New Zealand should be able to get a decent crowd for a stand alone fixture with GB. You can guarantee Tonga v Australia would. Either of those with a double header with Samoa v Fiji would’ve been good, but as you say the triple header we had was poor and lazy at best 

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These are attendances from 2001 to 2017 of all tests in NZ, including WC games. 

2001 New Zealand 36 France 0 Auckland 4,500
2001 New Zealand 10 Australia 28 Wellington 26,580
2002 New Zealand 24 Australia 32 Wellington 25,015
2003 New Zealand 30 Australia 16 Auckland 21,296
2004 New Zealand 16 Australia 16 Auckland 19,118
2005 New Zealand 26 Australia 28 Auckland 15,400
2006 New Zealand 18 Australia 30 Auckland 17,887
2006 New Zealand 18 Great Britain 14 Christchurch 17,005
2006 New Zealand 34 Great Britain 4 Wellington 16,401
2007 New Zealand 0 Australia 58 Wellington 16,681
2008 New Zealand 56 Tonga 8 Auckland 5,000
2010 New Zealand 50 Samoa 6 Auckland 11,650
2010 England 36 PNG 10 Auckland 44,324
2010 New Zealand 20 Australia 34 Auckland 44,324
2010 New Zealand 76 PNG 12 Rotorua 11,500
2010 New Zealand 24 England 10 Wellington 20,681
2012 New Zealand 12 Australia 20 Auckland 35,399
2014 New Zealand 16 England 14 Dunedin 15,836
2014 New Zealand 22 Australia 18 Wellington 25,183
2014 New Zealand 14 Samoa 12 Whangarei 16,912
2017 New Zealand 38 Samoa 8 Auckland 17,857
2017 Tonga 18 England 20 Auckland 30,003
2017 New Zealand 74 Scotland 6 Christchurch 12,130
2017 Tonga 24 Lebanon 22 Christchurch 8,309
2017 Samoa 18 Tonga 32 Hamilton 18,156
2017 New Zealand 22 Tonga 28 Hamilton 24,041
2017 New Zealand 2 Fiji 4 Wellington 12,713
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4 hours ago, westside said:

Lol what. No one calculates averages like that.

They should though.  If the three matches were played separately, separate crowd figures would be known for each one.

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14 hours ago, RayCee said:

These are attendances from 2001 to 2017 of all tests in NZ, including WC games. 

2001 New Zealand 36 France 0 Auckland 4,500
2001 New Zealand 10 Australia 28 Wellington 26,580
2002 New Zealand 24 Australia 32 Wellington 25,015
2003 New Zealand 30 Australia 16 Auckland 21,296
2004 New Zealand 16 Australia 16 Auckland 19,118
2005 New Zealand 26 Australia 28 Auckland 15,400
2006 New Zealand 18 Australia 30 Auckland 17,887
2006 New Zealand 18 Great Britain 14 Christchurch 17,005
2006 New Zealand 34 Great Britain 4 Wellington 16,401
2007 New Zealand 0 Australia 58 Wellington 16,681
2008 New Zealand 56 Tonga 8 Auckland 5,000
2010 New Zealand 50 Samoa 6 Auckland 11,650
2010 England 36 PNG 10 Auckland 44,324
2010 New Zealand 20 Australia 34 Auckland 44,324
2010 New Zealand 76 PNG 12 Rotorua 11,500
2010 New Zealand 24 England 10 Wellington 20,681
2012 New Zealand 12 Australia 20 Auckland 35,399
2014 New Zealand 16 England 14 Dunedin 15,836
2014 New Zealand 22 Australia 18 Wellington 25,183
2014 New Zealand 14 Samoa 12 Whangarei 16,912
2017 New Zealand 38 Samoa 8 Auckland 17,857
2017 Tonga 18 England 20 Auckland 30,003
2017 New Zealand 74 Scotland 6 Christchurch 12,130
2017 Tonga 24 Lebanon 22 Christchurch 8,309
2017 Samoa 18 Tonga 32 Hamilton 18,156
2017 New Zealand 22 Tonga 28 Hamilton 24,041
2017 New Zealand 2 Fiji 4 Wellington 12,713

Last year in Auckland, Tonga v Australia got 26k. Aus v NZ got 12k. 

Whichever way you look at it, reducing that to 25k this year, and adding another game is a really poor showing.

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26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Last year in Auckland, Tonga v Australia got 26k. Aus v NZ got 12k. 

Whichever way you look at it, reducing that to 25k this year, and adding another game is a really poor showing.

Its like the authorities with their simplistic minds think if we do a triple header we will get 26k + 12k + approx. 7k and end up with 45k. It doesn't work like that and never has. 

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18 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The odd double header makes sense when one of the fixtures would be very poorly attended as a stand alone fixture

But New Zealand should be able to get a decent crowd for a stand alone fixture with GB. You can guarantee Tonga v Australia would. Either of those with a double header with Samoa v Fiji would’ve been good, but as you say the triple header we had was poor and lazy at best 

What is considered decent? I feel in many ways, the Tonga vs Australia fixture made the attendance look somewhat respectable judging by all the red in the crowd

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On 03/11/2019 at 09:49, DoubleD said:

Of course it’s true, I know from friends and associates who treat it as a day on the p!ss, with some background ‘entertainment’. Same with the corporate aspect. 

This also applies to the union premiership club games at Wembley, where they get 50k+. These people go for an event, not week by week fans. 

RL biggest problem is the inability to bridge social divides, engage with casual fans and put on an event (with the exception of the World Cup in UK which showed it could be done). Whilst the media certainly doesn’t help, we are as much to blame for being too insular as a sport. 

Football, which is also traditionally a working class game, has managed to successfully do this

As long as RL fans/administrators persist with the haughty notion that the lack of people willing to actually pay to watch a game of live RL is simply a marketing problem, and not a result of the product on the pitch, then the game will never reach mainstream conciousness. 

How much more evidence do you need?!

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On 03/11/2019 at 22:15, Big Picture said:

It was a triple header, so dividing that figure by three gives an average of less than 8,500 for the three matches.  Pitiful.

I suspect quite a few of those fans would have worn kiwi jerseys if Tonga wasn’t playing.

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