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jroyales

Time to change the number of tackles rule.

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1 minute ago, Oxford said:

No

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but surely there is this weekend and next to go yet... oh no hang on best not get too excited by that i;ve seen the team!

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I think if you added a "distance" component like football that would be interesting.  If say every 5m gained earned you another tackle. Would probably require the two ref system since being accurate during live play would be tough for one guy.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

 

  • Any time the dummy half is caught in possession it is an immediate turnover.  This wouldn't outlaw the scoot but it would mean that the dummy half wouldn't take the scoot option unless there is a clear chance to score/make a break

We play this in touch and it makes it more of a passing game than using a middle to just trundle up the park. 

You have to throw the ball around and even with only 5 metres drop for the offside line, you can still start to play. 

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2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I wonder what Rugby League would be like if we introduced the following (I'm not particularly advocating it, just a thought experiment).

  • Any time the dummy half is caught in possession it is an immediate turnover.  This wouldn't outlaw the scoot but it would mean that the dummy half wouldn't take the scoot option unless there is a clear chance to score/make a break.
     
  • On tackles 4 and 5 there must be a minimum of two passes of the ball each play.  If the dummy half or first receiver are caught in possession then it is a turnover.

As I say, just a thought.

It would be really difficult to referee that game and difficult to follow.

Also wouldnt it leave us in a position where a dummy half runs 90 metres and get tackled inches from the line and lose possession? Not sure that is the right thing to do. 

Ive said before, if you allowed the markers to stand either side of the ruck rather than forcing them to stand square it would make the scoot much more difficult to execute. 

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2 hours ago, Futtocks said:

One poor major match and there's always someone advocating the failures of the past as a remedy for the present. Has anybody brought up the five yard thing yet? You know, jinking halfbacks, ball-handling forwards, small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts etc. etc.

The other two matches on Saturday were great entertainment.

Another example is that the second Tongan try against GB took over 35 seconds as a single play.

The BBC "highlights" for the Eng v NZ "epic" semi final were 34 seconds long.

 

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At least in Union the kicks are often decent at the end of these attacking phases. GB would bash it up for five tackles and then Widdop would grubber kick the ball 2 metres. Some of the worst most pointless kicking I have ever seen in either code.

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Whatever the number of tackles, you are still going to kick on the last! 

You want as many metres as possible between the ball and your try line when not in possession of it! 

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8 hours ago, eal said:

At least in Union the kicks are often decent at the end of these attacking phases. GB would bash it up for five tackles and then Widdop would grubber kick the ball 2 metres. Some of the worst most pointless kicking I have ever seen in either code.

Really ? Seems to me they just belt it aimlessly down the pitch often in thrilling bouts of kick tennis , or into the stands . Or the number 9 boots it up in the air and everyone runs after it and the ref has to spot who knocked on first .

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8 hours ago, eal said:

At least in Union the kicks are often decent at the end of these attacking phases. GB would bash it up for five tackles and then Widdop would grubber kick the ball 2 metres. Some of the worst most pointless kicking I have ever seen in either code.

"decent kicks" is relative.. when you are looking at delicate plays to try to scythe open a defence close to the line they are a hard skill to master and defences are very quick on them.. in union, as in league, the majority of welts down the pitch are hit and miss, some are great some are straight down the throat.. 

There is a large amount of rose tinted specs on this thread at the moment.. remembering one match as if its the rule rather than it being one match.. GBs kicking was poor.. so has many teams in the recent RUWC.. 

Kicking is a personal skill some will be good at it some will be less so, some days you have an off day.. both codes kicking is hit and miss dependent upon this and the kick chase.. 

none of this though is anything to do with "the rules" so there is no need to change them.. they just need to get skill levels up.

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OT: I'd use the bonus try thing like in the 9s


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1 hour ago, RP London said:

"decent kicks" is relative.. when you are looking at delicate plays to try to scythe open a defence close to the line they are a hard skill to master and defences are very quick on them.. in union, as in league, the majority of welts down the pitch are hit and miss, some are great some are straight down the throat.. 

There is a large amount of rose tinted specs on this thread at the moment.. remembering one match as if its the rule rather than it being one match.. GBs kicking was poor.. so has many teams in the recent RUWC.. 

Kicking is a personal skill some will be good at it some will be less so, some days you have an off day.. both codes kicking is hit and miss dependent upon this and the kick chase.. 

none of this though is anything to do with "the rules" so there is no need to change them.. they just need to get skill levels up.

Bring back King Wally!

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9 hours ago, eal said:

At least in Union the kicks are often decent at the end of these attacking phases. GB would bash it up for five tackles and then Widdop would grubber kick the ball 2 metres. Some of the worst most pointless kicking I have ever seen in either code.

That's the fault of Widdop playing poorly, not the rules. And the kicking from hand in the other code rarely impresses, despite all the practice they get during the match.

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Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. (Susan Ertz)

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I don't think the number of tackles is the issue. It could be the distance the defensive line is set. 

Is 10m too far back? 

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2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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13 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

I don't think the number of tackles is the issue. It could be the distance the defensive line is set. 

Is 10m too far back? 

I would say to fix the problem you have to look at what the players are doing on the pitch to fix the problem themselves, then encourage that play.

My guess is its about ruck speed... the quicker the ruck the more broken the line is and the better it is to run at.. if you watch the old footage (when people say the game was better) the defence is never properly set.. When you see more open running moves today it is normally off the back of a quick ruck and a line/markers not set (markers not set its normally a dummy half break, if its the line the dummy half will move it quickly and the half backs start running it wider)

Therefore instead of how far back they are you need to somehow force the defence to not be as set, which IMHO is about getting the play the ball cleaned up and faster. You need to allow for a good tackle to be worth something though which is where the balance is.. 2 refs seems to solve a bit of that problem in the NRL, so I would say its the ruck and how much lying on there is in the Super league.

That said I have said before i wouldnt be averse to a trial match or two at 5m defence as it would at least put the debate to bed one way or the other... but i do think its ruck speed that is the issue.

Edited by RP London

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Let's change the rules again,.................and again..................and again😟

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So just give a directive to all that as soon as the ref calls the tackle complete the tackler has to IMMEDIATELY get off the tackled player. Doesn't need any rule changes - it is then up to the attacking team to realise that getting to your feet quickly and playing the ball quickly will likely mean you are attacking a less well set line

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15 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

So just give a directive to all that as soon as the ref calls the tackle complete the tackler has to IMMEDIATELY get off the tackled player. Doesn't need any rule changes - it is then up to the attacking team to realise that getting to your feet quickly and playing the ball quickly will likely mean you are attacking a less well set line

That is exactly how i would do it. if you are on your back it takes longer to get up and that is the reward for a good defensive tackle. 

It WILL lead to penalties and maybe sin bins in the first 3-4 games but the teams will quickly change as long as the refs are not heavily criticised on tv and by clubs as it is the players that need to learn and they will.

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3 minutes ago, RP London said:

That is exactly how i would do it. if you are on your back it takes longer to get up and that is the reward for a good defensive tackle. 

It WILL lead to penalties and maybe sin bins in the first 3-4 games but the teams will quickly change as long as the refs are not heavily criticised on tv and by clubs as it is the players that need to learn and they will.

The laws are clear already

Speed essential 11. The play-the-ball must be performed as quickly as possible. Any player who intentionally delays the bringing of the ball into play shall be penalised.

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3 minutes ago, SSoutherner said:

The laws are clear already

Speed essential 11. The play-the-ball must be performed as quickly as possible. Any player who intentionally delays the bringing of the ball into play shall be penalised.

I agree.. but its a bit like the scrum feed, it needs the ref to enforce it, but when they do coaches and Sky TV get on their back about the amount of penalties etc.. its about a concerted effort and the players will adapt.

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4 minutes ago, RP London said:

I agree.. but its a bit like the scrum feed, it needs the ref to enforce it, but when they do coaches and Sky TV get on their back about the amount of penalties etc.. its about a concerted effort and the players will adapt.

That is why i suggest it be sent as a very public directive to all refs and coaches pre season that this is a law that will be being enforced heavily. Yes first few games will be a whistle fest (like whenever the other code tightens the high tackle laws) but coaches will adapt tactics and players will learn or lose

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23 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I wonder what Rugby League would be like if we introduced the following (I'm not particularly advocating it, just a thought experiment).

  • Any time the dummy half is caught in possession it is an immediate turnover.  This wouldn't outlaw the scoot but it would mean that the dummy half wouldn't take the scoot option unless there is a clear chance to score/make a break.
     
  • On tackles 4 and 5 there must be a minimum of two passes of the ball each play.  If the dummy half or first receiver are caught in possession then it is a turnover.

As I say, just a thought.

I think the scoot is an exciting enough  play whether he's caught or not so wouldn't want to discourage it

 

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1 hour ago, SSoutherner said:

The laws are clear already

Speed essential 11. The play-the-ball must be performed as quickly as possible. Any player who intentionally delays the bringing of the ball into play shall be penalised.

Unless you’re the team in possession and you’re winning and running the clock down ... it’s a quirk of the game that often bemuses me that officials have a different mindset on penalties depending if you’re the defending or attacking team . 

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