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Man of Kent

Play-the-ball clampdown

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Didn’t they try clamping down on this around 2006? But sacked it after everyone complained about the amount of penalties? 

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I'll give it a month, too hard to police with just one referee.

I remember Mahe Fonua used to roll the ball backwards with his hand whilst both feet remained on terra firma on pretty much every PTB during his previous stint with Hull. Always amazed me that the refs never picked him up on it.

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15 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Didn’t they try clamping down on this around 2006? But sacked it after everyone complained about the amount of penalties? 

Yep. Round and round in circles we go

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Pathetic. Of all the possible things that referee’s could be clamping down on and clubs could be shying away from in pre-season in anticipation for the new season, a foot on the ball at the play-the-ball was nowhere near top of the list. 

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20 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Didn’t they try clamping down on this around 2006? But sacked it after everyone complained about the amount of penalties? 

The same will happen again when the coaches don't like their own team being penalised.

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Says a lot when a statement has to be put out that the rules of the game are definitely going to be enforced this season... As has been said though, won't last... 

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The adjustment to the rules we most need is that once a tackle is complete , no defender is allowed to change their grip on the tackled player , they must release and not contact the opposition in any way , none of this putting your hand on the players head , no contact at all 

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PNG heeled the ball back on every PTB in the recent game v GB....it looked good and showed discipline. There can't be one rule being applied by all international sides in the world but wilfully ignored by any GB side just because they can't be bothered to follow the laws.

Watching all sorts of international games on YouTube, it appears that a correctly executed PTB is normal in most countries. It shouldn't be asking too much of any player to do it correctly.

When I played a good while ago, everyone used their heel or studs to propel the ball backwards. Just tossing it backwards through the legs isn't rugby league, nor ever has been.

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1 hour ago, RL does what Sky says said:

So next how about having the ball put in the middle of the scrum ?

...or just putting it in correctly, holding the two pointed ends and rolling it into the tunnel as required rather than casually holding it in one hand like a bowling ball and tossing it towards the back of the scrum.

Why it's got to the stage where referees don't give a monkeys about stuff like this is mystifying and detrimental to the image and integrity of the sport.

If the laws aren't being enforced, then why have them in the first place?

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6 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

PNG heeled the ball back on every PTB in the recent game v GB....it looked good and showed discipline. There can't be one rule being applied by all international sides in the world but wilfully ignored by any GB side just because they can't be bothered to follow the laws.

Watching all sorts of international games on YouTube, it appears that a correctly executed PTB is normal in most countries. It shouldn't be asking too much of any player to do it correctly.

When I played a good while ago, everyone used their heel or studs to propel the ball backwards. Just tossing it backwards through the legs isn't rugby league, nor ever has been.

Quite. The rollball is touch rugby.

The play-the-ball is the very essence of rugby league and in my view the British game has discredited the sport by tolerating a lackadaisical approach.

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3 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

...or just putting it in correctly, holding the two pointed ends and rolling it into the tunnel as required rather than casually holding it in one hand like a bowling ball and tossing it towards the back of the scrum.

Why it's got to the stage where referees don't give a monkeys about stuff like this is mystifying and detrimental to the image and integrity of the sport.

If the laws aren't being enforced, then why have them in the first place?

Do you remember what scrums were like 40/50 years ago. They were an appalling mess.

 

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1 minute ago, Padge said:

Do you remember what scrums were like 40/50 years ago. They were an appalling mess.

Yes! A dark and dangerous place where all sorts of atrocities happened.

If the rules state the ball should be held horizontally by the pointed tips and rolled along the ground into the tunnel with both hands then casually hurling it to the back of the scrum with a one handed fling shouldn't be allowed.

That doesn't mean to go back to having the turbulent seething cauldrons that scrums were in the 70s, nobody wants that.

The modern game needs to tidy up on the laws though so it doesn't become a choice whether players and officials obey them or not. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

...or just putting it in correctly, holding the two pointed ends and rolling it into the tunnel as required rather than casually holding it in one hand like a bowling ball and tossing it towards the back of the scrum.

Why it's got to the stage where referees don't give a monkeys about stuff like this is mystifying and detrimental to the image and integrity of the sport.

If the laws aren't being enforced, then why have them in the first place?

I agree with all you say about feeding the scrum ... and would also like scrums to be contested rather than just it being a pass from the scrum half to the loose forward. I can understand why many think scrums are a waste of time

Those in favour of the scrums say it takes 12 players out of the action for a while and opens up space on the field. Yet, for how long ? Within 1 tackle they are all back in position and in that time there has been very rarely any significant open play.

Either get scrums contested or do away with them.

I also don't think it is actually the referees who "don't give a monkeys" (they just do as they are told), it is the coaches (who don't want their forwards tired out by too much pushing) and more so the RFL/Super League bosses who want such "nice" scrums because it looks better on tv.

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2 hours ago, Padge said:

Do you remember what scrums were like 40/50 years ago. They were an appalling mess.

Yes they were - and yes, we don't want to go back to that - but at least  they were contested and it was not always certain which team might get possession. Unlike now when a scrum is just a replacement for a pass from the scrum-half to the loose forward.

It wouldn't be so bad if we actually did learn a bit from Rugby Union and sometimes had the ball trapped at the second row's feet and tried to push forward. At least the opposition would have to pack down properly in case that happened and they had to push equally as hard to prevent being steamrolled over. These days a loose forward just puts his hands on the backside of the second rows (who themselves don't bend their backs properly) and has his head out of the scrum to watch what the opposition are doing.

By packing down properly that also might create a longer period of open space after the scrum as it would take the forwards a bit longer to get back into their defensive line.

Edited by RL does what Sky says
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About time too! 

2 hours ago, RL does what Sky says said:

Yes they were - and yes, we don't want to go back to that - but at least  they were contested and it was not always certain which team might get possession. Unlike now when a scrum is just a replacement for a pass from the scrum-half to the loose forward.

It wouldn't be so bad if we actually did learn a bit from Rugby Union and sometimes had the ball trapped at the second row's feet and tried to push forward. At least the opposition would have to pack down properly in case that happened and they had to push equally as hard to prevent being steamrolled over. These days a loose forward just puts his hands on the backside of the second rows (who themselves don't bend their backs properly) and has his head out of the scrum to watch what the opposition are doing.

By packing down properly that also might create a longer period of open space after the scrum as it would take the forwards a bit longer to get back into their defensive line.

I'd go further and make both packs bind, crouch and then engage just as in RU and then require the ball to be fed into the tunnel as per the rule book, defining the tunnel as between the feet of the opposing hookers.  Any deviation would be an automatic differential penalty, without exception.

I'd also penalize loose forwards disengaging if the ball's at their feet, as in that case it hasn't yet emerged from the scrum.

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

About time too! 

I'd go further and make both packs bind, crouch and then engage just as in RU and then require the ball to be fed into the tunnel as per the rule book, defining the tunnel as between the feet of the opposing hookers.  Any deviation would be an automatic differential penalty, without exception.

I'd also penalize loose forwards disengaging if the ball's at their feet, as in that case it hasn't yet emerged from the scrum.

Watch Union. I dont understand why people want competitive scrums. If you pass forward or knock on, you deserve to give the ball up.

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4 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Watch Union. I dont understand why people want competitive scrums. If you pass forward or knock on, you deserve to give the ball up.

No thanks, I've never been able to watch more than a few minutes of Union without getting bored.

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Just now, Big Picture said:

No thanks, I've never been able to watch more than a few minutes of Union without getting bored.

Its all the scrumming. 

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