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Man of Kent

Play-the-ball clampdown

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1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Watch Union. I dont understand why people want competitive scrums. If you pass forward or knock on, you deserve to give the ball up.

This right here is why I've never understood competitive scrums or line outs in Union. You've made a mistake then are given an equal opportunity to get the ball back, how is that fair? 

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We definitely need more disputed penalties in rugby league so this is excellent news. I look forward to everyone being delighted with the first month of the season's stop-start football and the first tries being chalked off because the video ref can spot daylight on the play-the-ball after five minutes of looking.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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The rules have been bent sideways by coaches and players, so good to see.

The Aussies have no problem playing the ball with the foot and are a faster game than ours, so the stop start argument is a nonesense.

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Seems weird that so many are laying the blame here at the door of the RFL/SL/Officials. Players know what they need to do and if they don't it should rightly be penalised. Our game is falsely 'fast' because we don't PTB correctly and then a penalty actually gets given for offside, so we don't get less penalties - we just reward the attacking side more. I agree however this will be very difficult to police and is why one of the biggest mistakes made last year was putting the 2 referees concept 'on hold'. 

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14 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Seems weird that so many are laying the blame here at the door of the RFL/SL/Officials. Players know what they need to do and if they don't it should rightly be penalised. Our game is falsely 'fast' because we don't PTB correctly and then a penalty actually gets given for offside, so we don't get less penalties - we just reward the attacking side more. I agree however this will be very difficult to police and is why one of the biggest mistakes made last year was putting the 2 referees concept 'on hold'. 

You’re a fan of the two referees idea?

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10 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

When I played a good while ago, everyone used their heel or studs to propel the ball backwards. Just tossing it backwards through the legs isn't rugby league, nor ever has been.

At Middle School, right at the back end of the 1980s, in the heart of RU country SW of Birmingham, our northern PE teacher had all the boys doing PTBs perfectly from about the age of 10. "Just in case you ever move north, like...."*

*It got very confusing though as obviously we weren't allowed to do it when playing other schools, but if we didn't do it on a games afternoon then we got a ball thrown at our head.

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19 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

You’re a fan of the two referees idea?

I really am. Not saying it's perfect call wise but the NRL is some much cleaner around the tackle/PTB than SL is. 

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1 minute ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I really am. Not saying it's perfect call wise but the NRL is some much cleaner around the tackle/PTB than SL is. 

Don't do it it's hopeless 

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There were 2 incorrect play the ball calls in the Salford - Swinton friendly.  Although, neither were given as a penalty but, as a scrum.  However, there were numerous play the ball's that weren't played with the foot that didn't go unpunished.  Just seemed like 2 random decisions, one against Swinton and the other against Salford.

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Should have been done year's ago, as for saying it will be dropped after a couple of rounds if clubs adapt and instruct that it should be done properly the only ones to blame for conceding too many penalties are themselves. They will soon put it right if that's the case. I hope it includes defender's hands being off/out of the tackle and attacker's not moving forward off the mark or is that too much to ask?

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11 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Don't do it it's hopeless 

It what sense? 

I really struggle to watch SL after having the NRL games on because it just looks a shambles, with the commentators ridiculously praising a 'quick play the ball' when you can see they were barely on their feet and just roll between their legs. Then from the defensive side you have players working round the tackled player instead of moving off. All of this happens when the ref is back in the defensive line and only gets pinged on an inconsistent basis at best. 

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53 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Seems weird that so many are laying the blame here at the door of the RFL/SL/Officials. Players know what they need to do and if they don't it should rightly be penalised. Our game is falsely 'fast' because we don't PTB correctly and then a penalty actually gets given for offside, so we don't get less penalties - we just reward the attacking side more. I agree however this will be very difficult to police and is why one of the biggest mistakes made last year was putting the 2 referees concept 'on hold'. 

You don't need two referees, have the Touch Judge's cover the 10 meters line of the defending team and the referee police the PTB, you might even get a proper 10mt without sneaking on the blind side.

 

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5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

It what sense? 

I really struggle to watch SL after having the NRL games on because it just looks a shambles, with the commentators ridiculously praising a 'quick play the ball' when you can see they were barely on their feet and just roll between their legs. Then from the defensive side you have players working round the tackled player instead of moving off. All of this happens when the ref is back in the defensive line and only gets pinged on an inconsistent basis at best. 

Totally agree.

I genuinely believe that enforcing a proper play the ball will make our sport so much better to watch.

The fans play a part in this as we should back the ref's giving the penalties early in the season to enforce this... rather than screaming about letting the game flow. The NRL spotted this earlier than us and went through the pain but the end result is a much better sport to watch in my opinion.

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32 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I really am. Not saying it's perfect call wise but the NRL is some much cleaner around the tackle/PTB than SL is. 

I’d argue that while you may be true there, in other areas, it’s caused problems. 

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8 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

You don't need two referees, have the Touch Judge's cover the 10 meters line of the defending team and the referee police the PTB, you might even get a proper 10mt without sneaking on the blind side.

 

Sure, I'm not opposed to the touchy's been given more license to assist the ref in that sense. 

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23 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

It what sense? 

I really struggle to watch SL after having the NRL games on because it just looks a shambles, with the commentators ridiculously praising a 'quick play the ball' when you can see they were barely on their feet and just roll between their legs. Then from the defensive side you have players working round the tackled player instead of moving off. All of this happens when the ref is back in the defensive line and only gets pinged on an inconsistent basis at best. 

It's too confusing for the referees.  Did you see the nrl grand final With the six again thing ? That was one ref over riding another.

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15 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d argue that while you may be true there, in other areas, it’s caused problems. 

You may be right mate, but it's honestly been the worst part of our game up here for years. We became obsessed with making the game faster - seemingly at the expense of the PTB. The decisive action that was taken last season to stamp out dumby halves just throwing the ball at offside defenders to milk a penalty worked immediately and was a good example of when you make something explicitly clear that it's cheating and you will be penalised, then it disappears. Incorrect PTB is exactly the same IMO. Overall I think we do way too much to reward the attacking team and very little for good defence - hence SL games averaging near on 46 points per game compared to NRL's 28. Closer games are more entertaining than high scoring games, surely? 

Edited by hunsletgreenandgold
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This has got nothing to do with the number of ref's. Every ref sees the issues at the play the ball... the problem we have in the NH is that the referees have been conditioned over a fair period of time to ignore what they see and 'manage' the game rather than penalise offences.

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13 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d argue that while you may be true there, in other areas, it’s caused problems. 

Spot on

And led to overall poor refereeing because they don't have confidence 

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3 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

It's too confusing for the referees.  Did you see the nrl grand final With the six again thing ? That was one ref over riding another.

I did see that and agree that was a major mistake - especially with my Raiders cap on! 

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12 hours ago, The British Lion said:

...or how about clamping down on 'lying on' while defenses reset?

 

 

As I see it, in order to give the defence a reasonable chance to get back 10m there has to be a delay at the tackle/Ptb. Hence the tedious thrashing about we see.

If the defenders were to release the tackled player immediately, as they should, then most every ptb would find either the defence retreating or within the 10m. These would often not be marginal incidents.

I'm thinking that a game like this(near constant retreating and/or offside defences) would have a very different nature to what we think rugby is.

The 10m offside has its downsides for me.

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Working purely from memory (so could be wrong with dates etc) but I seem to remember the first game of the 2006 season was Saints v Hudds on Sky. There was a big uproar on here and elsewhere about the ‘new laws’. It seemed to last a few weeks before being abandoned ( in true RL style) 

Not sure why it will be any different this time round.

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Would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind this. For many many years we've been told you only have to make an effort to touch the ball, and not actually needing to touch the ball with your foot. which was all to do with allowing a quicker PTB. Now we're enforcing the old rule (assuming the old rule was changed)? why? whats changed?

Just a 'NRL have done it' rule change IMO.

Which i'm fine with. I'm all for correct PTB's. Just curious as to why its now deemed an issue when it wasn't for god knows how long.

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18 minutes ago, corvusxiii said:

As I see it, in order to give the defence a reasonable chance to get back 10m there has to be a delay at the tackle/Ptb. Hence the tedious thrashing about we see.

If the defenders were to release the tackled player immediately, as they should, then most every ptb would find either the defence retreating or within the 10m. These would often not be marginal incidents.

I'm thinking that a game like this(near constant retreating and/or offside defences) would have a very different nature to what we think rugby is.

The 10m offside has its downsides for me.

Ah but that's when we get into the nuances of the type of tackle that's been executed. For example a dominant tackle rightly gives the defence longer to set, but yeah a tackle that either doesn't take a player to ground and/or the player is in a position to PTB almost immediately, any hands left on the player that in anyway obstructs a quick PTB should be penalised. The referees should feel empowered to use their own judgement on what is going on around the ruck but equally enforce the most basic and obvious errors consistently, rather than as Dunbar said 'managing the game'. 

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2 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

........ one of the biggest mistakes made last year was putting the 2 referees concept 'on hold'. 

The problem is just where would all these referees come from ?

To cover all the matches would obviously require double the number of referees able to control those games and so that would mean promoting many from just below that level. However, would you expect a Championship player to just be put into a Super League team and immediately perform to the same standard ? I doubt it. No, it would take time for him to adjust ... yet would coaches, fans give that referee time to adjust ? Again, no.

Furthermore, even if several were promoted, who takes their place at the lower level ... and then the level below that ... and so on ? Eventually what will happen to the amateur matches where no referees are then available due to all having been promoted into a higher level ?

As with players; it's easy to provide more referees in Australia because the game is far more popular and there are more willing to do the job, whereas over here there is already a vast shortage of officials resulting in some amateur matches already taking place without one.

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