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Well... after 66 days in ICU my sister's fella who was described as being as near to death as can be without dying.... has made it. He's home. Half the fella he was.... and the virus has ravaged his l

I'm not putting up with this goading of a volunteer moderator who does a sterling job on my behalf generally on here, but especially recently when I was ill for almost a month with what might well hav

Well my sister's fella is making very small steps in the right direction. From being described as as near to death without being dead, he's now sat up, off dialysis and yesterday was breathing on

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49 minutes ago, Moove said:

The NHS app isn't the same as the Google/Apple one.

As per the BBC article on the Google/Apple initiative, they only expect to have their new service available to developers by mid-May whereas the NHS app is already in progress (note the line at the bottom here about currently doing performance testing). The same BBC article (and similar elsewhere) also point out that countries like the UK, Germany etc are working on their own separate initiatives in the meantime. The NHS app is instead using contact tracing algorithms developed by Oxford University (started back in January).

Further down the line it's likely that other third-party apps (like the NHS one) will likely be able to switch their apps over to the new Google/Apple service, but it isn't disingenuous to say they're developing their own. Eventually you won't even need an app, it'll just be baked into your phone.

Google and Apple are involved in the NHS app. This is quite clear from every report I have read today, even now looking at the original Times article that sparked this conversation it explicitly says Google and Apple are involved. All of the tracking functionality will be coming from Apple and Google and as 98% of phones and tablets use iOS or Android then this simply wouldn't be possible without them. They will be packaging up all of this data and providing Web API's, or something similar, for health organisations all over the world to extract the data for their own individual apps, like the NHS one. The data is key for something like this to work. As is getting people to use the app which with huge privacy concerns may not be that simple. 

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We haven't had 100,000 deaths  in Europe.

The EU  has a population of 700million

0.014% dead, many (most?) of whom have underlying health issues and/or are geriatric.

If ten times as many died, we would only lose less than 0.1%

the government is not publishing how many have died of flu (or with flu) over the same period.

The lockdown for not-at-risk groups is a complete over-reaction.

 

 

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Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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5 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

This is the available data for China, probably the only country that has gone over the peak and is well down the other side.

china-.bmp 825.05 kB · 3 downloads

I'm not entirely sure I trust any of the data coming out of China with any reliability. Chinese govt already suppressing academic research into the origins, onset and management of the virus in China.

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Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

Definitely think our figures are being manipulated so we don’t look as bad as we actually are. 

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4 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

I'm not entirely sure I trust any of the data coming out of China with any reliability. Chinese govt already suppressing academic research into the origins, onset and management of the virus in China.

I'm not going to make any comment on its accuracy, but at the moment data to such an advanced stage isn't available from any other country. Here's Italy's which is probably the next most advanced through the curve appears to be slowly going down the slope towards zero.

italy-.bmp

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The reporting of people seems to be getting out of control. Four police came to a house in our street last night, a Police van and a car.  A neighbour said someone had reported them for breaching the lockdown. However I hadn't noticed anything to warrant such an approach. 

Then the neighbour started asking me where I had been, where I worked, why I was out etc. I did politely say I was an NHS worker but I really didn't appreciate all the questions. 

It made me think that it doesn't take long for people to turn against each other. Also there is a danger of malicious reporting. 

I think what annoys me is that I haven't noticed the people doing the reporting helping in other ways, offering to do shopping etc, so I am not convinced about motives. 

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35 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

The ONS are separating out Covid deaths in their weekly figures. Latest published are up to 27th March, and if I'm interpreting them correctly there were a further ca70% of the announced (hospital) numbers in the community ie ca1640 total v ca960 announced.

It should be noted that the community deaths aren't confirmed as having Covid but that it is mentioned on the death certificate.

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1 minute ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The ONS are separating out Covid deaths in their weekly figures. Latest published are up to 27th March, and if I'm interpreting them correctly there were a further ca70% of the announced (hospital) numbers in the community ie ca1640 total v ca960 announced.

1640 deaths in a day? If so that is some difference to what is being announced and the figures that are being widely used for comparison to other countries.

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15 minutes ago, Damien said:

1640 deaths in a day? If so that is some difference to what is being announced and the figures that are being widely used for comparison to other countries.

No, that's the  total as of 27th March. Increase from 26th was 228 (increase in hospital deaths was 251 - discrepancy is because of the way the hospital deaths are counted, they usually include deaths from previous days/weeks).

PS these are numbers for England and Wales only, not UK. I think Scottish numbers include community deaths but not sure about NI.

A couple of other sobering thoughts are that almost 90% of the 10,000 hospital deaths have occurred in the last fortnight and over 50% in the last week!

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1 hour ago, Wolford6 said:

We haven't had 100,000 deaths  in Europe.

The EU  has a population of 700million

0.014% dead, many (most?) of whom have underlying health issues and/or are geriatric.

If ten times as many died, we would only lose less than 0.1%

the government is not publishing how many have died of flu (or with flu) over the same period.

The lockdown for not-at-risk groups is a complete over-reaction.

 

 

I think until mid March the overall death rate across the UK was about average for that time of year, any year, but during March the numbers crossed into being higher than average because of course flu usually subsides as the spring arrives whereas Covid does not seem to respect climate (or anything else).

I actually find myself being a bit concerned about countries where Covid hasn't really hit hard because I wonder that once we come out the other side of this and we begin to open things up again, will the lack of exposure/illness in other countries create a second pandemic?  Surely in order for us to be protected in the future we either have to find a treatment which helps get people better, develop a super effective vaccine or eradicate it completely from the whole world smallpox style?  Unless it dies out of its own accord of course.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Its interesting to hear from Liz Kendall regarding the fact that around half of Coronavirus deaths in Ireland are from deaths in Care Homes and how other countries include all Coronavirus deaths in totals. At present these deaths aren't counted in the UK Coronavirus death figures and we only count hospital deaths. This obviously distorts our figures somewhat.

They didn't always do so though.  For example, France only counted hospital deaths for some time and then recently included community deaths in their totals which meant their totals leapt up at one point.

 

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8 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

They didn't always do so though.  For example, France only counted hospital deaths for some time and then recently included community deaths in their totals which meant their totals leapt up at one point.

 

I'm talking about the here and now. It's a more accurate reflection and is what we should be doing.

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1 hour ago, Bleep1673 said:

Just been listening to Boris praising the NHS. 6 months ago he wanted it closed & privatised, I bet he's changed his mind now!

Yes, but he's probably changed his mind right back since that speech. He's not someone who looks back, because there's a lot of stabbed folk lying there.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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1 hour ago, bobbruce said:

Definitely think our figures are being manipulated so we don’t look as bad as we actually are. 

I wasn't surprised when the figures announced on Thursday and Friday spiked, timely to emphasize the Government message for the Easter holiday. On the same theme I should imagine the figures for PPE issued include gloves as 1 item not as pairs so 1 million looks better than 500,000 pairs, they come in boxes of 50 or 100 so it's strictly true to count them as such.

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