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wiggler

RFL- put the begging bowl away

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I find it rather unsavoury that as soon as rugby league is called off it appears that, straight away, the RFL is going to ask the government for financial support.  

Any financial support the government might provide would come out of tax revenue or public borrowing.  The same tax revenue that is under enormous pressure at the moment to meet increased healthcare costs.  I can imagine a lot of zero hour contract workers will not be getting work in the leisure industries over the next few weeks and I guess there will be little or no overtime either.  VAT is also going to be savaged, albeit over a slightly longer timescale.   

That means tax revenues are going to FALL over the next few months, at least until the proposed restrictions are lifted.  I also think it will be quite hard to increase public borrowing atm with such low interest rates, so that way of raising cash may not be feasible, particularly as other countries may also be looking to do the same.

The country is likely to have less tax revenue to spend at a time when public expenditure is likely to rise so I think the RFL should put its begging bowl away - at least until the country (and indeed the world) has got through this situation.  The haste with which that bowl has come out is rather tasteless.  There are currently more important things to spend our money on than propping up poorly financially managed sports.

What do you think?

 

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Agreed, if the game is in peril the helping hand needs to come from its supporters. On another forum a lot of Sky Sports subscribers are taking about cancelling their subscription while there's no worthwhile Rugby league and other sports to watch. If they do that why not divert their direct debit or standing order to the club that they support? Likewise with those ardent fans who travel home and away, even to London, Toulouse and Toronto. They won't be able to spend their money on away trips so why not divert their savings into their club, otherwise they might not have a club to travel to away games for in the near future?

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Rugby League clubs are small companies and employers like any other business. They will and should get the same support as other companies whose income streams have been devastated by this.

Macron has said no companies in France will be allowed to go bust so that should safeguard Catalan. Our country is probably more cut-throat than that but RL gives back a lot more to its communities than most businesses and anything done to help should also take that into account.

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1 hour ago, Steve Slater said:

Agreed, if the game is in peril the helping hand needs to come from its supporters. On another forum a lot of Sky Sports subscribers are taking about cancelling their subscription while there's no worthwhile Rugby league and other sports to watch. If they do that why not divert their direct debit or standing order to the club that they support? Likewise with those ardent fans who travel home and away, even to London, Toulouse and Toronto. They won't be able to spend their money on away trips so why not divert their savings into their club, otherwise they might not have a club to travel to away games for in the near future?

They will be the same people who will expected to be paid by their employers if they have to Self Isolate.

 

HW

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Very few industries return as much bang for buck economic return than sports and entertainment.

Doesn’t mean the comments needed to be made publicly. As deserving as the RFL and clubs are as any business, any public comment at this time was going to bring negative attention.

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1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Very few industries return as much bang for buck economic return than sports and entertainment.

Doesn’t mean the comments needed to be made publicly. As deserving as the RFL and clubs are as any business, any public comment at this time was going to bring negative attention.

I agree to an extent, but I'm OK with us aggressively putting our hand up for help. I'm cool with the RFL not sitting back and knowing it's place. 

I think we are small enough to avoid much criticism on this. 

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Perhaps we could ask the RFU for a handout? ?


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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8 minutes ago, Damien said:

Of course the RFL should be looking at doing what is best for the sport.

At every opportunity, even this one, that's their job.

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1 minute ago, Oxford said:

At every opportunity, even this one, that's their job.

Indeed. Every organisation or sport is trying to do what is best for them to survive these troubled times. The RFL is quite correct in doing the same.

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4 hours ago, wiggler said:

I find it rather unsavoury that as soon as rugby league is called off it appears that, straight away, the RFL is going to ask the government for financial support.  

Any financial support the government might provide would come out of tax revenue or public borrowing.  The same tax revenue that is under enormous pressure at the moment to meet increased healthcare costs.  I can imagine a lot of zero hour contract workers will not be getting work in the leisure industries over the next few weeks and I guess there will be little or no overtime either.  VAT is also going to be savaged, albeit over a slightly longer timescale.   

That means tax revenues are going to FALL over the next few months, at least until the proposed restrictions are lifted.  I also think it will be quite hard to increase public borrowing atm with such low interest rates, so that way of raising cash may not be feasible, particularly as other countries may also be looking to do the same.

The country is likely to have less tax revenue to spend at a time when public expenditure is likely to rise so I think the RFL should put its begging bowl away - at least until the country (and indeed the world) has got through this situation.  The haste with which that bowl has come out is rather tasteless.  There are currently more important things to spend our money on than propping up poorly financially managed sports.

What do you think?

 

Are not low interest rates generally seen as a good reason to increase public borrowing? And with fewer private options offering reliable returns at this time of crisis, investors ought to be more attracted to government bonds. Whether sports clubs are appropriate recipients of the funds raised is another matter.

I can`t see any alternative to significant, temporary pay cuts for the players and staff, that is if they want the clubs to be extant and able to pay them in a year`s time and thereafter. As you say most people are less able than pro RL players to withstand short term austerity.

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I don’t argue the RFL needs to act in the best interests of the sport, but a search of BBC (I must admit I got sick of searching a comprehensive sport check) sport website only seems to have the sport of RL with an article titled around the likely need of government support.

That’s my point. Why did RL need to be the one sport with a headline like that? Why did RL need to pitch itself as a sport that is likely desperate for a handout when there are small business owners and employees also drastically affected and in turn have such immediate distress on their doorstep?

It smacks of insensitivity.

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With Government debt predicted to hit £2 trillion in the near future, and that assumes economic estimates that are wholly over optimistic, I don't see RL making much of a dent in that give the modest amount that we run the sport on.  I'm also pretty confident the RFL won't cause too much turmoil on the world financial markets.

Besides, we are important.   The players and support staff are all people trying to make their way and very few of them are on the mega bucks seen in other sports, and the clubs are important focal points for local communities, with some of those communities not having an awful lot else to shout about.

 

 

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If RFL were to ask for gov't financial support to survive then where would the line be drawn for other sports? There are literally hundreds of soccer teams in a similar state. What about them? Cricket teams? RU teams? The lesser sports?

And what about other entertainment businesses - restaurants, bars, cinemas, live theatre and music? Jeez, next thing you know F1 and Premier League teams will be standing there with their hands out.

It's opening a big can of worms. Leave it alone.

 

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4 hours ago, M j M said:

Rugby League clubs are small companies and employers like any other business. They will and should get the same support as other companies whose income streams have been devastated by this.

Macron has said no companies in France will be allowed to go bust so that should safeguard Catalan. Our country is probably more cut-throat than that but RL gives back a lot more to its communities than most businesses and anything done to help should also take that into account.

Not sure if this brings in politics or economics or both... The EU presumably proscribes what Macron says since there are limits to state aid.  They will get round it... But is it feasible to carte blanche "give" this money to all businesses? All?

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29 minutes ago, TIWIT said:

If RFL were to ask for gov't financial support to survive then where would the line be drawn for other sports? There are literally hundreds of soccer teams in a similar state. What about them? Cricket teams? RU teams? The lesser sports?

And what about other entertainment businesses - restaurants, bars, cinemas, live theatre and music? Jeez, next thing you know F1 and Premier League teams will be standing there with their hands out.

It's opening a big can of worms. Leave it alone.

 

I expect most of those above will get some support. Most businesses will get some level of support I expect. 

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44 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Not sure if this brings in politics or economics or both... The EU presumably proscribes what Macron says since there are limits to state aid.  They will get round it... But is it feasible to carte blanche "give" this money to all businesses? All?

No idea but I'd have thought they'll find a way for all countries to get round the state aid rules as long as they do it equitably.

The business rates change in the budget last week would save the business I work for about £1.6m a year were it not for the restrictions of the state aid rules - if that was waived it could literally make the difference.

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19 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Now is the perfect time to make Our League subscription based and significantly ramp up the content.

How could the content be 'ramped up' when there are no games to show?

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Community Amateur Sports Clubs qualify for Gift Aid when they receive charitable donations, I wonder whether this could be extended to professional clubs where their fans wish to help them out in the current crisis? 

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42 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

Now is the perfect time to make Our League subscription based and significantly ramp up the content.

With what?

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Not sure if this brings in politics or economics or both... The EU presumably proscribes what Macron says since there are limits to state aid.  They will get round it... But is it feasible to carte blanche "give" this money to all businesses? All?

I'd expect countries to do whatever they wish unilaterally regardless of the EU as they have done with border closures.

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Thanks to this and Peter V’landys tin eared shenanigans the other day, one could be forgiven for believing rugby league and begging bowls go hand in hand at the moment.

Of course, other sports will be looking for compensation, but it's the way our sport goes about it that should make most fans concerned.

Edited by Mister Ting
typo

Learn to listen without distortion and learn to look without imagination.

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One could just as easily praise the RFL for being open and honest in their approach for help. Virgin Atlantc have done the same thing in their public ask for £6bn to prop up the UK airline industry.

We also do not know what is being asked for. If it is a loan then there is no loss to the treasury or impact on other services, since the UK has pretty much unlimited capability to borrow.

Any loan would be offset as an asset againt National Debt so make no difference to the UK balance sheet.

HMG would simply be the facilitator/guarantor of a low intetest loan to the RFL.

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30 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I'd expect countries to do whatever they wish unilaterally regardless of the EU as they have done with border closures.

Except this was EU money wasn't it? 

But otherwise every country might well be ok to do their own money as they see fit.  As I see what is being done for the uk so far is hundreds of millions are being put forward as guaranteed loans. 

But my worry us that non viable football clubs who have never worried about making a fair living are going to get loads a money, "loans", at the expence of say RL.

Please let this thing end sooner rather than later...

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