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Wirral Warrior

Aussie Insularity Strikes Again

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Just finished listening to an Aussie Podcast ' Six Tackles with Gus' and enjoyed the general discussion on the prospects of NRL return at the end of May and the threat that player discipline could jeopodise the re-start etc. The discussion , sorry monologue, moved onto the impact of the late scheduling of the Grand Final and then a concentrated Origin series.

Not once was the impact on International Rugby even mentioned either by the host or the great Gus himself. In fact when the host suggested they move Origin as an end of season tournament, the great Gus said NO, absolutely not!

No way would they move it , nor should they he exclaimed! .....and the reason...not because that would clash with International Rugby ( Ashes, Anzac , Island Tests etc). Oh no. The great Gus likes mid-season Origin in the depths of 'winter' because they can gather round the fire and watch the 'footy' and get big TV ratings, and of course the players would be too tired at the end of the season to play 'rep footy'.

Not one refrence to the International game...apart from he mentioned the Warriors once...and it wasn't Wigan.

Is this guy typical of Aussie attitudes ? He is an ex Origin coach , club coach etc so he knows the sport.... or does he?

I thought dinosaurs were extinct?

Thoughts?

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Unfortunately a sad indictment of many Australian fans, the top level of the sport is on their doorstep or in their back yard so they need not look any further.

 

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7 hours ago, Wirral Warrior said:

Just finished listening to an Aussie Podcast ' Six Tackles with Gus' and enjoyed the general discussion on the prospects of NRL return at the end of May and the threat that player discipline could jeopodise the re-start etc. The discussion , sorry monologue, moved onto the impact of the late scheduling of the Grand Final and then a concentrated Origin series.

Not once was the impact on International Rugby even mentioned either by the host or the great Gus himself. In fact when the host suggested they move Origin as an end of season tournament, the great Gus said NO, absolutely not!

No way would they move it , nor should they he exclaimed! .....and the reason...not because that would clash with International Rugby ( Ashes, Anzac , Island Tests etc). Oh no. The great Gus likes mid-season Origin in the depths of 'winter' because they can gather round the fire and watch the 'footy' and get big TV ratings, and of course the players would be too tired at the end of the season to play 'rep footy'.

Not one refrence to the International game...apart from he mentioned the Warriors once...and it wasn't Wigan.

Is this guy typical of Aussie attitudes ? He is an ex Origin coach , club coach etc so he knows the sport.... or does he?

I thought dinosaurs were extinct?

Thoughts?

I would describe this as "Rugby League insularity strikes again". Here in the M-62 corridor we`re hardly paragons of outward-looking virtue. Everything mentioned here relates to off-the-field matters. On the field the NRL have just announced the "six-again" rule, thus continuing the pattern of both the RFL and NRL changing rules and interpretations unilaterally and treating RL as an exclusively domestic sport. We are the only nation who allow players not to play the ball with the foot, which makes our game technically and visibly different from elsewhere. 

Not too much hope of RL becoming a major international sport if the two biggest competitions have divergent rulebooks.

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8 hours ago, Wirral Warrior said:

Just finished listening to an Aussie Podcast ' Six Tackles with Gus' and enjoyed the general discussion on the prospects of NRL return at the end of May and the threat that player discipline could jeopodise the re-start etc. The discussion , sorry monologue, moved onto the impact of the late scheduling of the Grand Final and then a concentrated Origin series.

Not once was the impact on International Rugby even mentioned either by the host or the great Gus himself. In fact when the host suggested they move Origin as an end of season tournament, the great Gus said NO, absolutely not!

No way would they move it , nor should they he exclaimed! .....and the reason...not because that would clash with International Rugby ( Ashes, Anzac , Island Tests etc). Oh no. The great Gus likes mid-season Origin in the depths of 'winter' because they can gather round the fire and watch the 'footy' and get big TV ratings, and of course the players would be too tired at the end of the season to play 'rep footy'.

Not one refrence to the International game...apart from he mentioned the Warriors once...and it wasn't Wigan.

Is this guy typical of Aussie attitudes ? He is an ex Origin coach , club coach etc so he knows the sport.... or does he?

I thought dinosaurs were extinct?

Thoughts?

I like Gus Gould, his openness and I’m sure if he was asked about internationals then he would answer.  But like us, they have to walk before they can run with the restart.

imo, from an international point of view, we have to beat them when/if we play them.  That’s the only way to get Aussie interest again in internationals.

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3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

imo, from an international point of view, we have to beat them when/if we play them.  That’s the only way to get Aussie interest again in internationals.

didn't word that well - before the second cup of tea... deleted.

Edited by iffleyox
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Ahh, we’re back to blindly taking swipes at Australian Rugby League, are we? 

Imagine being shocked that the International game wasn’t spoken about on an NRL podcast. 

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I dislike Gus. He's a dinosaur as was stated.

You have to appreciate that there is likely no chance that there is international travel this year and SOO is the biggest earner for the game period. 

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1 hour ago, iffleyox said:

except that interest in Australia cricket interest went down when they started losing to people (England especially). It's a funny sporting set up - they'll watch stuff like the Ashes (as the cricket Ashes) because of the history but they are quite fragile when they're not winning IME. Cricket, RU both declined in spectator interest when Australia weren't world beaters. So, for all they dress it up as "not good enough to worry about" as a reason for ignoring the international game, I wonder if there isn't also an element of security blanket about it - "and we're so much better anyway"

so getting English RL to the level where they're a regular threat to the Australians (which is what English RL needs) is something that seems to be a bit of a kiss of death for modern Australian sporting interest... You'd get a bit of an upswing for the first couple of close contests, but if it got to the stage where they were losing regularly...

We don’t know all the reasons why the international game is not a priority, but the financial reasons for SoO are obvious.  We need something similar imo.  

I don’t honestly think there would be a big upswing but a series win for England would certainly create more interest that the debacle that was the GB tour.  It’ll only ever happen if we reduce our SL games and include more internationals though.

 

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State of Origin really has been a double edged sword for our game.

For the sport in Australia, where it fights the AFL for the title of the dominant winter sport, it has been fantastic. Regularly topping the audience figures for any TV programme in the year it is an event that shows Rugby League at it's very best.

But it is now perceived as the premier representative game for many and this has been at the detriment of the Kangaroos in particular and International League generally. 

This is not a critique of Australia in particular, the void created by Great Britain (and to an extent New Zealan) falling behind behind in the 80's was naturally filled by SOO.

But now that the top tier of International League is more competitive I wish there were space for both to be prioritised... SOO mid season and internationals in the (NH) Autumn window.  Again, with AFL not having the international element I really don't know why the NRL and Australia League in general don't try and use this advantage more.

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The thing with Gus is he never played or coached at International level. He did coach NSW. He also works for the network for whom Origin provides 3 of their biggest rating shows of the year. By this time every year, when a potential NSW player pulls off an important tackle in a some run of the mill NRL game, Gus will say "That's an Origin tackle". It's in Channel 9's interests to promote State of Origin, and as an employee of Channel 9, Gus certainly does that. 

There are plenty of Aussies who would put the international game over Origin, but most of them don't have podcasts made by one of Australias main TV networks. 

Having said that, there's plenty of people in this country that will happily watch club games home and away, but seemingly have no interest in England's matches. It's been one of the biggest disappointments since moving from Crewe to Warrington to discover that there are many Warrington fans whose interest in RL goes no further than Super League. I'll never forget a conversation with someone saying that they couldn't wait for the new season to begin. Unfortunately this conversation took place a few days after the opening match of the 2013 RLWC. It's rare you find football fans who don't follow England in the big tournaments, but in RL it seems quite commonplace. 

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I disagree that it’s insularity, it’s about giving their fans what they want to see. However much we in England may dislike it, that’s State of Origin and not an Ashes Series. 

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I haven’t watched an origin series in years... I find the hype is bigger than the entertainment... so my personal preference is international football.

however...  you have to realise that the toll in Australia just reached 100 Covid related deaths... this was largely achieved through closing state and international borders and clamping down on outbreaks. Western Australia now has a hard border from the rest of the country and Is arguing against free movement from other states. New or emergent cases are really rare in most states and on the east coast emerge in very low numbers daily.

whilst Covid 19 is still rife around the world I cannot see Australia welcoming unnecessary international travel. The focus of the county seems to be self sufficiency ...for  trade, tourism and sport... 
 

the tenor of the discussion would not be surprising in near normal circumstances... in this ‘new normality’ it’s to be expected! 

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Gould isn’t as bad as Fittler and he coached at international level! 

Those who think that England beating Australia would make any difference to their view on international game are sadly misguided. They will have an excuse such as it was wrong time of year or the off season or it being a one-off. You don’t see any big interest in them playing NZ or even Tonga again. 

Until the media takes an interest in the international game down there, it won’t be given the place it should. Key to that is it being separated from the NRL in the next tv deal. That would allow a standalone bid and whoever secured it would look the promote it appropriately. From there, the tide can turn

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6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

State of Origin really has been a double edged sword for our game.

 

6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

But it is now perceived as the premier representative game for many and this has been at the detriment of the Kangaroos in particular and International League generally. 

 

11 minutes ago, Wollongong said:

.. I find the hype is bigger than the entertainment... so my personal preference is international football.

I’d largely agree with this . Origin is huge , a colossal occasion with the best against the best , but it’s hype does often outdo entertainment  as its the ‘purest’ form of NRL footy 

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5 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Gould isn’t as bad as Fittler and he coached at international level! 

Those who think that England beating Australia would make any difference to their view on international game are sadly misguided. They will have an excuse such as it was wrong time of year or the off season or it being a one-off. You don’t see any big interest in them playing NZ or even Tonga again. 

Until the media takes an interest in the international game down there, it won’t be given the place it should. Key to that is it being separated from the NRL in the next tv deal. That would allow a standalone bid and whoever secured it would look the promote it appropriately. From there, the tide can turn

Spot on!!

(Though it couldn't hurt if England beat us too)

Edited by ghost crayfish
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7 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Gould isn’t as bad as Fittler and he coached at international level! 

Those who think that England beating Australia would make any difference to their view on international game are sadly misguided. They will have an excuse such as it was wrong time of year or the off season or it being a one-off. You don’t see any big interest in them playing NZ or even Tonga again. 

Until the media takes an interest in the international game down there, it won’t be given the place it should. Key to that is it being separated from the NRL in the next tv deal. That would allow a standalone bid and whoever secured it would look the promote it appropriately. From there, the tide can turn

Nail on head. Now more than ever, it's so painfully clear how much influence the media have on the opinions of the masses. I could name numerous examples but will avoid politics. The best one recently is women's football. Basically, a nothing sport, no interest, no funding, no coverage. The BBC and others decide (rightly in my opinion) that they deserve more coverage. This takes off and obviously scores brownie point with progressives and all of a sudden you've got blokes in the pub talking about the relative merits of england women's players.

It took around 2 years to raise the game from obscurity to being one of the more higher profile sports in the UK. 

Steph Houghton has 212k instagram followers 

Sam Tomkins 56k

Gareth Widdop 44k

Luke Thompson 12k

Even Sam Burgess only has only 346k and he is a cross code, international player

Australia is no different. Yes we need to be competitive but we're pretty much there and Australia lose often enough. The key to the international game is getting their media to actually get behind it. Can't see it happening any time soon unfortunately.

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6 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Nail on head. Now more than ever, it's so painfully clear how much influence the media have on the opinions of the masses. I could name numerous examples but will avoid politics. The best one recently is women's football. Basically, a nothing sport, no interest, no funding, no coverage. The BBC and others decide (rightly in my opinion) that they deserve more coverage. This takes off and obviously scores brownie point with progressives and all of a sudden you've got blokes in the pub talking about the relative merits of england women's players.

I accept that the virtual signalling BBC want to show it and that some people will therefore watch, plus that the standard (from what little I’ve seen) can be very high, but I have still never once heard a man discuss women’s football. 

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I think the main gripe we have here is that between SL and Top International Rugby League we have nothing, we have to travel half way around the world or welcome International (now one of three) teams here to satisfy our desire to watch better than SL can provide, it's no use playing useless France the player's neither want to or can't offer any competition of the required quality.

On the other hand in Australia they can bridge the gap with a tournament that has now surpassed International Football in popularity with the paying punters, a Tournament that was born out of nessacity nearly 40 years ago to provide for the Aussie player's and public what the international game couldn't, and it's momentum has been growing ever since, the clamour for tickets and viewing figures are testamount to that.

I honestly don't see what people over here expect the Aussies to do, should they knock their premier tournament the SoO into second place just to satisfy our desire for something that we cannot provide for ourselves.

The OP is pointing the finger at the Aussies saying they are being insular, I would say have a look when you are pointing a finger at someone there are 3 fingers pointing back, it is our own ineptitude that we can't provide any domestic tournament to provide the bridge from SL to International Football, if we had such a thing there would always be next time, it wouldn't matter as much as having nothing at all.

 

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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I think the main gripe we have here is that between SL and Top International Rugby League we have nothing, we have to travel half way around the world or welcome International (now one of three) teams here to satisfy our desire to watch better than SL can provide, it's no use playing useless France the player's neither want to or can't offer any competition of the required quality.

On the other hand in Australia they can bridge the gap with a tournament that has now surpassed International Football in popularity with the paying punters, a Tournament that was born out of nessacity nearly 40 years ago to provide for the Aussie player's and public what the international game couldn't, and it's momentum has been growing ever since, the clamour for tickets and viewing figures are testamount to that.

I honestly don't see what people over here expect the Aussies to do, should they knock their premier tournament the SoO into second place just to satisfy our desire for something that we cannot provide for ourselves.

The OP is pointing the finger at the Aussies saying they are being insular, I would say have a look when you are pointing a finger at someone there are 3 fingers pointing back, it is our own ineptitude that we can't provide any domestic tournament to provide the bridge from SL to International Football, if we had such a thing there would always be next time, it wouldn't matter as much as having nothing at all.

 

Agreed. It's fair to say the Aussies could do a lot more for the international game. But it's not Australia's fault that France, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are terrible. 

Whilst in the the southern hemisphere Tonga, Fiji, Samoa and PNG are all closing the gap on the big 3 at incredible speeds.

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On 20/05/2020 at 10:02, Hela Wigmen said:

Ahh, we’re back to blindly taking swipes at Australian Rugby League, are we? 

Imagine being shocked that the International game wasn’t spoken about on an NRL podcast. 

At least we admit that TGG is played in more than one League, Oz seems to be about NRL & that's it.


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25 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

At least we admit that TGG is played in more than one League, Oz seems to be about NRL & that's it.

This is a common misconception. 

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20 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Gould isn’t as bad as Fittler and he coached at international level! 

Those who think that England beating Australia would make any difference to their view on international game are sadly misguided. They will have an excuse such as it was wrong time of year or the off season or it being a one-off. You don’t see any big interest in them playing NZ or even Tonga again. 

Until the media takes an interest in the international game down there, it won’t be given the place it should. Key to that is it being separated from the NRL in the next tv deal. That would allow a standalone bid and whoever secured it would look the promote it appropriately. From there, the tide can turn

Agree with that mate, although I stated ‘the only way’ was beating them is obviously not the case but would certainly help.  

We don’t exactly put internationals at the pinnacle of our season either.

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On ‎20‎/‎05‎/‎2020 at 07:05, unapologetic pedant said:

I would describe this as "Rugby League insularity strikes again". Here in the M-62 corridor we`re hardly paragons of outward-looking virtue. Everything mentioned here relates to off-the-field matters. On the field the NRL have just announced the "six-again" rule, thus continuing the pattern of both the RFL and NRL changing rules and interpretations unilaterally and treating RL as an exclusively domestic sport. We are the only nation who allow players not to play the ball with the foot, which makes our game technically and visibly different from elsewhere. 

Not too much hope of RL becoming a major international sport if the two biggest competitions have divergent rulebooks.

I would agree that there is a fair degree of insularity in the UK...the M62 brigade etc. However the point I am really trying to make is that the leading commentators on the game should have a broader perspective to keep people informed.

If that same debate was happening on the excellent 5 Live Podcast and a change /extention to the Super League season meant we were to delay the Challenge Cup Final and/or Magic to post season, do we think Dave Woods would have referenced the slight issue of a planned 3 Test Ashes Series. Of course he would , as would Phil Caplan, Bill Arthur , Brian Carney , Chris Irvine etc .

Non-one is saying that moving SOO to post season is not the most financially logistical move to make, but at least cancelling an International Series should have been referenced as a consequential issue. Thats my point - the insularity and narrow perspective.

The only enightened Aussie commentators I hear on the sport appear to be Andrew Voss and Steve Mascord.   

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15 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

We don’t exactly put internationals at the pinnacle of our season either.

Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the NRL, and having a mid season international series would interfere with Origin & their season, and play-offs, so October, November is the only time they will accomodate us, and Origin is more important for Aus TV. 


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2 minutes ago, Bleep1673 said:

Unfortunately we are at the mercy of the NRL, and having a mid season international series would interfere with Origin & their season, and play-offs, so October, November is the only time they will accomodate us, and Origin is more important for Aus TV. 

What’s an alternative plan then?

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