McManus rejects proposal for 11-team Super League

[Mr Frisky]

19 minutes ago, ojx said:

He's not wrong, eleven clubs would look a little amateur. I'm surprised they are not going down to 10 clubs. Especially if it meant getting every game televised in the next broadcasting deal. SL should be looking for quality over quantity. 

No matter how small you make the league of only "top teams" - someone has to finish last, 2nd last etc and the best players from those clubs then leave to go to other clubs closer to the top.

14 team SL all day long. Hopefully save the WP so 12 next year then no relegation in 2021 and 2 promoted at the end of next season to make the 14.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Magic XIII said:

Leigh average largely made up of lots of away fans travelling a handful of miles from exotic local towns like St Helens, Wigan, Warrington and little further afield like Leeds.

Only Saints brought any numbers about 2.5K, even Wire and Wigan very poor.

About 5.5k regular home fans on average.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

Well obviously there will be no evidence until it happens.

There was negative people who said Catalans 3-500 attendances couldnt be built on 

You said it with such conviction too. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

It is easy with the right people and supportive structure, 

Both of these are missing in RL.

Just look at what the NFL has acheived

I love it when people on this forum compare SL to NFL. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

London v Wigan Warriors on Saturday 17th August 1996 did indeed draw a crowd of 10,014. that is within the last 25 years.* There have al;so been a few 9,000 and 8,000 attendances since, I admit not recently but #justsaying.

* And as Max Boyce would have put it I should know for i was there.

 

So in 25 years they’ve got one 10k+ crowd, beating it by 14. Sorry I stand corrected, there is no reason why the Broncos can’t easily increase their average from under 1,000 to over 10,000. 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Didn't Leigh disband both their academy and reserve teams the last time they got promotion.

No 

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

It is easy with the right people and supportive structure, 

Both of these are missing in RL.

Just look at what the NFL has acheived

You keep citing the NFL but the products are massively different. Thanks to decades of exposure and promotion the NFL has a massive image couple with a ready-made audience to tap into. Thanks to decades of rank bad management RL has no image outside of its adherents. That is the fundamental problem that has been ignored for years.

Toronto were actually creating that image and audience in Canada and that is one thing that McManus rightly said would be foolish to simply toss away.

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

Can we all agree that whatever team gets the 12th place, the last club it will or should be is Leigh, who brought very little (nothing?) to the comp last time they were in it and whose record since on and off field does not in any way justify inclusion. But especially if you're the sort who really doesn't like clubs which live off the unreliable largesse of one owner.

Apologies for Leigh fans actually populating a RL message board , we didn't realise each non SL club is only allowed one fan each on here

[Wellsy4HullFC]

3 hours ago, Gambass said:

You guys should really stop this 'french TV deal' nonsense. Under the current circonstances, it will never happen.

As a best case scenario, L'Equipe will take it where Bein left (ie producing Catalans home game and that's it). No french TV will put any extra money in the competition as the value is simply not there, and won't be there neither with an eventual addition of Toulouse.

Sports channels need subscribers and Super League don't bring them. Simple as that.

I do believe this situation can be changed and that eventually french RL can become self-sufficient..., but for that to happen, you don't need a five year plan, you need a multiple decades plan to make RL a valuable product to the eyes of enough french viewers. We are not there, not by a long shot and as it stands there is no strategy put in place for that to happen

We have already lost one decade and half since Catalans inclusion...

 

Are you saying we should give up on Catalans then?

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Regarding your last comment, would you include Huddersfield and/or Catalans in that group?

And London 

[Blind side johnny]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Are you saying we should give up on Catalans then?

Only if we give up on RL altogether - there is very little difference in reality.

[Davo5]

40 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Only if we give up on RL altogether - there is very little difference in reality.

It might make Harry less angry though.

[Gambass]

54 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Are you saying we should give up on Catalans then?

Absolutely not... I'm saying it's ridiculous to expect some paybacks (like a french TV deal) when nothing has been done to grow the market over here for the past 15 years.

You need a very long term strategy and a full commitment from both sides to do so and expect results not in years, but in decades...

For the moment, the Catalans bring nothing to the table and will continue to do so unless such a strategy is put in place.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Gambass said:

Absolutely not... I'm saying it's ridiculous to expect some paybacks (like a french TV deal) when nothing has been done to grow the market over here for the past 15 years.

You need a very long term strategy and a full commitment from both sides to do so and expect results not in years, but in decades...

For the moment, the Catalans bring nothing to the table and will continue to do so unless such a strategy is put in place.

Do you think it is 100% true that nothing has been done to grow the market over the last 15 years?

Wasn't the introduction of Catalans 'doing something'?

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

So in 25 years they’ve got one 10k+ crowd, beating it by 14. Sorry I stand corrected, there is no reason why the Broncos can’t easily increase their average from under 1,000 to over 10,000. 

Let's keep a degree of realism, if London got SL gates up to a regular 3 - 4k it would be some achievement.

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Let's keep a degree of realism, if London got SL gates up to a regular 3 - 4k it would be some achievement.

It would be incredible. 

[Eddie]

It’s amazing how every thread that doesn’t descend into an argument about the merits of TWP turns into one about Leigh. For the record I’d happily see Leigh in SL if they get promoted. 

[Cardypaul]

All very interesting but I have a really radical idea how about basing it on the ability of teams. We have spent more time trying to manipulate who we have in SL rather than having P&R and letting the teams that deserve to be there get on with it. The reality is Toronto went belly up because they were reliant on a sugar daddy but to be honest so are most of the clubs in SL. 
I know it won’t happen but I would love to see a time where the league wasn’t dominated by how big the owners wallet is.

[PEANUT HEAD]

5 hours ago, yipyee said:

Its not just aboht drawing crowds though is it.

Its player development, additional viewers both TV and in stadiums 

Additional sponsors

Etc... 

We need more BIG clubs and less make up the number clubs

Let's relegate Wakey, huddersfield, castleford and salford then, cause they don't bring any of that to the game

[PEANUT HEAD]

4 hours ago, Magic XIII said:

Leigh average largely made up of lots of away fans travelling a handful of miles from exotic local towns like St Helens, Wigan, Warrington and little further afield like Leeds.

There was only saints who brought more than a thousand fans out of all of SL.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, PEANUT HEAD said:

There was only saints who brought more than a thousand fans out of all of SL.

You count them all in?

[DimmestStar]

People seem to assume that because McManus rejects a 11 team Super League that's the end of the matter.

He only gets one vote and I think plenty of clubs struggling financially will not want to divide the TV money with an extra club in 2021, not with the big reduction they have to suffer already.

The idea was 11 teams in 2021 with one team promoted each year for 3 years to get up to 14. That would give a great chance for Toulouse, London and the others with a year to get finances back in some order for the 11 clubs.

Not saying it's ideal by any means but I wouldn't write off the idea just yet. McManus has already lost the vote to hand control back to the RFL he can easily lose again.

[PEANUT HEAD]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

You count them all in?

Yes my sister runs the ticket office and she can tell you how many away fans are there.

[Gooleboy]

2 minutes ago, PEANUT HEAD said:

Yes my sister runs the ticket office and she can tell you how many away fans are there.

Can't argue with that.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, DimmestStar said:

People seem to assume that because McManus rejects a 11 team Super League that's the end of the matter.

He only gets one vote and I think plenty of clubs struggling financially will not want to divide the TV money with an extra club in 2021, not with the big reduction they have to suffer already.

The idea was 11 teams in 2021 with one team promoted each year for 3 years to get up to 14. That would give a great chance for Toulouse, London and the others with a year to get finances back in some order for the 11 clubs.

Not saying it's ideal by any means but I wouldn't write off the idea just yet. McManus has already lost the vote to hand control back to the RFL he can easily lose again.

I think the point people are making is that with Leeds and Saints it only needs one more of the big clubs to come to this conclusion and we'll then see the usual falling into line of enough of the other clubs as previously.