McManus rejects proposal for 11-team Super League

[GUBRATS]

36 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Thatto Heath... Having one team from St Helens is bad enough.  

Yes we don't want them both in the GF

[GeordieSaint]

My money is on Toulouse being the 12th club if TWP don’t make it to the start line.

[FearTheVee]

51 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Having looked at the article i believe his comments are a load of waffle.

In his second paragraph he says "if" and "viable"...  Hmmm....  So his conclusions are built on sand.  Why is a league of 11 so impossible?  Where have SLE, or anyone, behaved wrong with Wolfpack?  They are the ones who supposedly had €2m for SBW!   Haven't all RL clubs been suffering throughout the pandemic?  Where was this "help" expected to come from?

Currently the biggest millstone around RL is promotion and relegation. 

A league of 11 is rubbish - who gets a bye before the cup final?  After the cup final?  Before the play-offs?  Who doesn't get to play on launch weekend, or Magic Weekend?

It hurts the integrity of the competition, it would be a bad move.

[sweaty craiq]

29 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

My money is on Toulouse being the 12th club if TWP don’t make it to the start line.

That would make sense. Been in Championship 3/4 years, never reached a final, mid table on gates over those 3/4 years, played a couple of games in a SL fit stadium, no tv deal or sky subscribers.

TO would be in with an expanded SL but not as a one in choice.

[sweaty craiq]

 

56 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Currently the biggest millstone around RL is promotion and relegation. 

The ‘problem’ is we don’t have 12 SUPER clubs so by not having it we continue to exclude a number of clubs no smaller than those currently in it.

A 14 club SL with 1up/down and a play off for a second spot would work but imo we need to be radical and have 2 divisions of 10 FT clubs with p&r but 3 year licences, and the goal to expand not contract

[Bostik Bailey]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Thatto Heath... Having one team from St Helens is bad enough.  

a few portacabins and Close Street would beat Bell Vue in ground criteria, and training facilities

[Adelaide Tiger]

Re-reading the comments by McManus it seems to me that he is playing a careful hand by keeping the door open for Toronto whilst also having a Plan B with the Mini Franchise suggestion,

If Toronto do find new buyers who are willing to fund a competitive SL team - subject to strict due diligence and I would suggest a non-refundable bond if the club has further problems in the next 3 years - and that Toronto get their share of the TV money as McManus suggests then the logical solution is to accept Toronto Mark II.

But if no new buyers can be found for Toronto then which teams from the Championship could step up.  Would it be counter-productive to a club if they:

1) have to pay over the odds for players on 2 year contracts in an attempt to beat relegation, but might face financial implosion if they are relegated, or
2) they keep well within their means, get beat most weeks, have low crowds and get relegated.

IMHO the Championship Club option would only work if

1. relegation is suspended next year but how do you sell that to clubs competing in the Championship next year, or,

2. to encourage a Championship team to put themselves forward you give them one years exemption from relegation but would existing SL clubs accept this.

Therefore I believe that McManus is hoping that Toronto find new buyers as it is the least complicated option.

 

[Whippet13]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

To much expense and not enough time to acheive that me thinks.

A truley independent body? Again cost and time.

Sky randomly picking a candidate, now that would be setting future proceedures.

I did say "quietly" picking a team lol.

I suspect their view will be taken into account even if it's not a decisive factor and a persistent viewpoint seems to be that Sky like having London in SL. Whether that's true or just an urban myth I dont know.

[Blind side johnny]

5 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Yes, I noticed that. 

Fair play to Harry for a measured response! Some of the Leigh and Fev fans would probably explode at that assumption

Well, if it is an independent objective assessment it will come down to the same thing, so what's the problem?

[sweaty craiq]

11 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

I did say "quietly" picking a team lol.

I suspect their view will be taken into account even if it's not a decisive factor and a persistent viewpoint seems to be that Sky like having London in SL. Whether that's true or just an urban myth I dont know.

Urban myth due to poor facilities

 

[Blind side johnny]

44 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Re-reading the comments by McManus it seems to me that he is playing a careful hand by keeping the door open for Toronto whilst also having a Plan B with the Mini Franchise suggestion,

If Toronto do find new buyers who are willing to fund a competitive SL team - subject to strict due diligence and I would suggest a non-refundable bond if the club has further problems in the next 3 years - and that Toronto get their share of the TV money as McManus suggests then the logical solution is to accept Toronto Mark II.

But if no new buyers can be found for Toronto then which teams from the Championship could step up.  Would it be counter-productive to a club if they:

1) have to pay over the odds for players on 2 year contracts in an attempt to beat relegation, but might face financial implosion if they are relegated, or
2) they keep well within their means, get beat most weeks, have low crowds and get relegated.

IMHO the Championship Club option would only work if

1. relegation is suspended next year but how do you sell that to clubs competing in the Championship next year, or,

2. to encourage a Championship team to put themselves forward you give them one years exemption from relegation but would existing SL clubs accept this.

Therefore I believe that McManus is hoping that Toronto find new buyers as it is the least complicated option.

 

It is useful to also read the LE editorial in conjunction with this article. MS makes the very valid point that McManus has a long and successful history in RL, building a club, team and ground that is better than when he took over and not being one of those chairmen who is wedded to publicity. In other words, when he does have something to say it is worth listening to.

[mrfranco]

1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

 

IMHO the Championship Club option would only work if

1. relegation is suspended next year but how do you sell that to clubs competing in the Championship next year, or,

2. to encourage a Championship team to put themselves forward you give them one years exemption from relegation but would existing SL clubs accept this.

Therefore I believe that McManus is hoping that Toronto find new buyers as it is the least complicated option.

 

I've been thinking about this. I think the way to do this (and provide some much-needed stability for any promoted club going forwards) is to say that in the first season, a new club cannot be relegated. If they finish bottom that year, there is no relegation (if another club finishes last, proceed as normal).

The winners of the Championship GF will still be promoted, but they will have to wait a season. This can actually work in their favour, as they will have a full 12 months plus to prepare for the jump up to SL, time to assemble a squad and gel for a season together in the Championship.

In that second season, there would have to be two relegation spots in SL, with no team having protection. If the same team won the Championship GF both seasons, the 11th-placed SL team in that second year would get a reprieve.

[Lowdesert]

Yes, we are due a structure thread.  Bring it on.

[mrfranco]

14 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Yes, we are due a structure thread.  Bring it on.

Ha, sorry  Point taken!

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said:

It is useful to also read the LE editorial in conjunction with this article. MS makes the very valid point that McManus has a long and successful history in RL, building a club, team and ground that is better than when he took over and not being one of those chairmen who is wedded to publicity. In other words, when he does have something to say it is worth listening to.

We can all listen to the bleedin obvious.

"If"  ... IF ... Someone comes up with oodles of money, including a chunk from other clubs via SKY money, then sure Toronto can play next season.

Its easy for Mr M to preach, but what about the likes of Salford or Trinity or Cas?

And where as someone else suggests, does the money come from for 20 club 2 division SL? This just the same, under s different name.

[Rupert Prince]

3 hours ago, FearTheVee said:

A league of 11 is rubbish - who gets a bye before the cup final?  After the cup final?  Before the play-offs?  Who doesn't get to play on launch weekend, or Magic Weekend?

It hurts the integrity of the competition, it would be a bad move.

What is special about a cup final?  Cups are drawn.  That's the point about cups.

What is special about a "launch weekend".

Why do we need a magic weekend.

11 clubs does not mean we have to limit the competition to 20 Rounds.  We have had loop fixtures before.  In extremis we could have up to 30 Rounds.  Going back to before we had 2 divisions we did not play everyone 2ce each - we had Lancs and Yorks leagues consolidated.  That's the point of the play offs. We would have say 24 or 26 Rounds.

Having 11 clubs might only need to limit itself to next season.

The Sydney competition had odd number of clubs for many years.  That worked well. Mind you that competition survived to manage itself without being half baked.

What is the problem? 

How do we divine who can  be dropped into the SL next season? The Championship is defunct this season... Just how can you chose, even remotely fairly, who to select?

 

[Dave T]

52 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Yes, we are due a structure thread.  Bring it on.

This one came along by stealth

[Davo5]

4 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

My money is on Toulouse being the 12th club if TWP don’t make it to the start line.

I'd be happy with Toulouse,they were top of the league when the season finished !! and it gives Leigh fans another foreign target to whinge about.

[Bostik Bailey]

1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

We can all listen to the bleedin obvious.

"If"  ... IF ... Someone comes up with oodles of money, including a chunk from other clubs via SKY money, then sure Toronto can play next season.

Its easy for Mr M to preach, but what about the likes of Salford or Trinity or Cas?

And where as someone else suggests, does the money come from for 20 club 2 division SL? This just the same, under s different name.

What about the likes of Cas, Trinity etc... would you rather have a league made up of clubs like Saints, Wire, Wigan, Leeds, Hull and Catalan, as the benchmark, or Clubs like Cas and Wakefield. It is up to these clubs to catch up, not for the top clubs to drop down

[yipyee]

4 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

That would make sense. Been in Championship 3/4 years, never reached a final, mid table on gates over those 3/4 years, played a couple of games in a SL fit stadium, no tv deal or sky subscribers.

TO would be in with an expanded SL but not as a one in choice.

That looks like a post from yesteryear when Widnes got a licence

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

 

The ‘problem’ is we don’t have 12 SUPER clubs so by not having it we continue to exclude a number of clubs no smaller than those currently in it.

A 14 club SL with 1up/down and a play off for a second spot would work but imo we need to be radical and have 2 divisions of 10 FT clubs with p&r but 3 year licences, and the goal to expand not contract

The quality might be better but 10 team divisions are seriously dull. 

[yipyee]

11 teams would be a farce, I would give Toronto a chance but then let Toulouse in.

They have been knocking on the door and are genuine expansion opertunities they can help Catalan by providing a French derby and wont step on any heartland toes for player production and fans etc.. and would help get that crucial Frwnch TV contract.

They have also been knocked back 3 times and still keep asking to join. I would be amazed if RL didnt grow 10 fold with a second french club...

And this is the reason why they deffinatley wont be the 12th team.

[Eddie]

10 minutes ago, Bostik Bailey said:

What about the likes of Cas, Trinity etc... would you rather have a league made up of clubs like Saints, Wire, Wigan, Leeds, Hull and Catalan, as the benchmark, or Clubs like Cas and Wakefield. It is up to these clubs to catch up, not for the top clubs to drop down

Don’t know why you put Cas in that bracket, other than their stadium they’re a great club. 

[paulwalker71]

41 minutes ago, yipyee said:

I would be amazed if RL didnt grow 10 fold with a second french club...

Really? How so?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

First choice would be Toronto being taken over and continuing. Saves the drama of selecting another team.

Second, can we negotiate a TV deal in France for next year under the proviso that the are 2 French clubs? Check their conditions, and if fair, Toulouse in.

Otherwise, London (relegated team) or Featherstone (losing GFists). I'd side with London given that they had a full time team, but perhaps application process?

I see the likes of Leigh, Widnes, Bradford and Newcastle way behind these first 4 choices.

11 teams just shouldn't be an option, especially with Magic Weekend.