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Sat 17 Jul: Challenge Cup Final: Castleford Tigers v St Helens KO 15:00 (BBC TV)


Who will win?  

72 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Castleford Tigers by 13 points or more
      1
    • Castleford Tigers by 7 to 12 points
      4
    • Castleford Tigers by 1 to 6 points
      12
    • St Helens by 1 to 6 points
      3
    • St Helens by 7 to 12 points
      16
    • St Helens by 13 points or more
      36

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  • Poll closed on 17/07/21 at 14:30

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23 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Another Saints player miraculously passes a HIA in a big final after staggering around the pitch.

They must’ve been using the same Witch Doctor that Cas used too get everyone fighting fit for the final. I don’t think a doctor, whether a witch or not would put a players health in jeopardy just for a game.

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

Also you then get the normal insecure replies from cretins going on about stereotypes and moaning that the fev v York game wasn't shown.

I replied pointing out it was on the red button for all and sundry to enjoy.

I presume I'm correct in that?, landlord of the Whalebone sorted it and he doesn't have Sky.

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England RU Coach Eddie Jones : "I spent a bit of time up at Hull and I like the full back there Connor, he's a tough, skilful player"

Jake Connor : "I've never played Union, it doesn't look that hard, you never say never but it looks too boring for me"

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22 hours ago, graveyard johnny said:

saints played kick n clap for the last quarter - ruined the final as it denied cas any chance to play rugby league in that period

I’m sure if it had been the other way round, Cas would’ve gone for the kickable penalties as well. Then finish it off with a fantastic try in the last minute. 

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22 hours ago, Roy Haggerty said:

Roby said it all then. The heat made it impossible to maintain the speed and ferocity of the 1st half. 
 

The 2nd half not a classic for neutrals, but I can tell you for a partisan, that was heart-pumping till the last 10 minutes. 

Roby is one amazing athlete, but i think he should call it a day at the end of the season. 

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6 hours ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

One you’re entitled to. FWIW I think the ref did ok but my team won so I am bound to be happier….pretty sure the penalty count was 6-4 in favour of Saints with the six agains at 2-2, personally wasn’t scratching my head at any of the calls either way although I did think a penalty could have been called against my team at least once when it wasn’t.  Moore was happy enough to go to the video ref when he needed unlike the arrogant ignorance of this facility by previous final refs. 
If anything the video ref took way too long that would be my only gripe. 
 

Fair assessment from Dave T above that Cas got pulled as they were tiring.

Overall really enjoyable final. Cas took their chances superbly first half but were worn out when Saints clicked. There’s a lot to be said for patient build up but Saints went into panic mode after the first try and Fages had a shocker. Welsby came on and was excellent IMHO, Saints calmed down and just wore Cas out in the end.

Evalds the right call, he is such a danger. Cas can be proud of their efforts.

There may yet be a Grand Final to come but this could be the end of an era for Saints depending who comes and goes. Lots of Saints fans grumble about Kyle Amor but I was very pleased to see him get over, he never lacks in effort. Was told that he didn’t have a deal a few years back and begged to stay, working harder than ever…Grand Finals and a Challenge Cup have followed with a try at Wembley. If he retires or moves on then he’ll have bowed out a happy man 👏

 

I like Amor, he looked finished when “The Master of Disaster - Cunningham” was in charge. But all that changed when Holbrook arrived and he has played well every season. Not rampaging runs like Walmsley, but he makes steady yards and is always looking too offload. I don’t think Saints will give him another year, but i would myself. Apart from the silly penalty Batchelor gave away he really has come on this season and id try and tie him down for another couple of seasons. As for Fages, he can go. 

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12 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Whilst the one immediately previous to those was just "excellent".

Every player deserves huge admiration after that game yesterday, incredible that they could serve that up in that sort of heat. I thought I did well walking to the pub in it.

Have to say I was shaking my head in disbelief at the young lass trying to sing Abide with me and God save the Queen. Not blaming her, whoever put her in that position needs a good slap. The huge roar at the end helped as it brought me back to reality when I was actually expecting Simon Cowell to start analysing her performance.

That the game was such a terrific spectacle for as long as it was again is credit to the players. I was hoping Cas might do it and it looked very promising up to half time but the early part of the second 40 mins did for them.

Where has this bloke been?

 

Should've gone to Specsavers.

Old Faithful we never lose at Wembley

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57 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I’m sure if it had been the other way round, Cas would’ve gone for the kickable penalties as well. Then finish it off with a fantastic try in the last minute. 

Saints used their big game experience in sultry conditions to see the game out. That's why they are champions.

Cas stopped working the space and went more side to side when time was running down. It is experience that gets you there. Saints covered Cas' shift threat and ultimately stopped them adding to the scoreboard.

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On 17/07/2021 at 16:24, Roy Haggerty said:

That’s true, but he didn’t. He jumped from the field of play because that’s where the last point of contact was. 

must admit to scratching me head on this. So to help and using a theoretical example...

Lets say a kicker booms a long high kick towards the opposition corner with plenty of payers in say middle of field... a player runs off the pitch and towards the kick then runs back on and takes the ball whilst on the pitch is that OK...

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12 minutes ago, redjonn said:

must admit to scratching me head on this. So to help and using a theoretical example...

Lets say a kicker booms a long high kick towards the opposition corner with plenty of payers in say middle of field... a player runs off the pitch and towards the kick then runs back on and takes the ball whilst on the pitch is that OK...

It is the foot that pushes off from the ground, if the other foot is in mid-air. Just like it is the catcher's foot over the dead-ball line that scuppers an over-ambitious kick-off.

If a winger swerves back in from touch and his leading foot lands in play before he catches the ball, he's in.

"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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1 hour ago, Josef K said:

I like Amor, he looked finished when “The Master of Disaster - Cunningham” was in charge. But all that changed when Holbrook arrived and he has played well every season. Not rampaging runs like Walmsley, but he makes steady yards and is always looking too offload. I don’t think Saints will give him another year, but i would myself. Apart from the silly penalty Batchelor gave away he really has come on this season and id try and tie him down for another couple of seasons. As for Fages, he can go. 

Amor seems pretty articulate - maybe a media career on the cards?

Fages was getting called all sorts by the Saints fans around me - was pretty obvious that he'd done his shoulder and couldn't pass properly. Should've gone off much sooner.

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22 minutes ago, JonM said:

Amor seems pretty articulate - maybe a media career on the cards?

Fages was getting called all sorts by the Saints fans around me - was pretty obvious that he'd done his shoulder and couldn't pass properly. Should've gone off much sooner.

I know all clubs have fans who are annoying but sometimes Saints take the proverbial. Fages has won 2 SL titles, 1 Challenge Cup, 1 League Leaders Shield and another Wembley appearance in the last 2.5yrs. I appreciate he isn’t Sean Long or Alex Murphy, but he’s been pivotal to the success of the team, both under Holbrook and Woolf. The drivel aimed at him is simply ridiculous. 

(This type of drivel was aimed at Welsby for a period of time last season). 

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2 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I know all clubs have fans who are annoying but sometimes Saints take the proverbial. Fages has won 2 SL titles, 1 Challenge Cup, 1 League Leaders Shield and another Wembley appearance in the last 2.5yrs. I appreciate he isn’t Sean Long or Alex Murphy, but he’s been pivotal to the success of the team, both under Holbrook and Woolf. The drivel aimed at him is simply ridiculous. 

(This type of drivel was aimed at Welsby for a period of time last season). 

Totally agree with this, Saints fans always seem to have a boo boy. When you consider how fortunate we have been to watch some truly great players it just seems very odd and a little sad for some to target other players. Maybe all clubs have an element like that, I genuinely don’t know and hope not. 
 

All that said, I can’t be a total hypocrite here, I have never taken completely to Fages as a half. I like his character and his defensive effort given his size,  but he has never looked at home there for Saints. Personally I would have tried him at 9 but there is a reason I am not a coach 😂.

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4 hours ago, Scubby said:

Saints used their big game experience in sultry conditions to see the game out. That's why they are champions.

Cas stopped working the space and went more side to side when time was running down. It is experience that gets you there. Saints covered Cas' shift threat and ultimately stopped them adding to the scoreboard.

Cas did not get enough time in the the Saints 20m area.  As someone said about their 1st try, (which was a beautiful thing) it needed a dozen things to happen and they all needed a dozen 100% completions.  They rarely managed that after that.  They tried one in second half and failed.  Their errors kept them away from the Saints line.

Frankly the key issue was just on half time when a clear foul on the head stopped a similar attempt.  There was no penalty and no yellow card. For those who wish to play it back you will see all the (generally excellent) commentators agree with me.

The first half was exciting, Cas could not get the 3rd try.   2nd half less so, and the heat should not be allowed to make an excuse.   But for all the excitement the skills were limited, and often broke down.  Both sides gave away easy possession.   Trying to complete the perfect beautiful thing killed Castleford. I wonder if Wire will do any better next season

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5 hours ago, Futtocks said:

It is the foot that pushes off from the ground, if the other foot is in mid-air. Just like it is the catcher's foot over the dead-ball line that scuppers an over-ambitious kick-off.

If a winger swerves back in from touch and his leading foot lands in play before he catches the ball, he's in.

Watched it again very closely and not surprised the video ref took his time, all sorts of issues around timing needed considering, after you've gone though those the above is spot on.

As for the high tackle, more sympathy there, I think the problem was the amount of time advantage was played as it looked good advantage at first.  The laws do not help, referees have a lot of discretion. I think there may have been two high tackles, the one shown in the BBC replay probably did not merit a yellow, the other was not shown so difficult to say. Definitely enough though to take it back and give a penalty though.

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10 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Also Jack Welsby was outstanding. To come off the bench and be unexpectedly asked to play at scrum half then assist the game-changing try is special. I don't necessarily think it's helpful to overhype a young player but this lad's potential is huge.

An observation re Welsby. A couple of years or so back when Super League had a 5 min crackdown on playing the ball to the rules Welsby was one of the first penalised for incorrect PRB by rolling the ball through his legs. Since then he has become  one  SL player who consistently plays the ball strictly to the rules. Watch him and see!

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9 hours ago, Ullman said:

Should've gone to Specsavers.

Why don't you just sod orf!

COLOUR BUS PHOTO,MK Metro Photograph,S340Set Scania Sd On Route 1C  Picture,3620. - £0.36 | PicClick UK

See!...even this one looks like a number ###### 10.

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England RU Coach Eddie Jones : "I spent a bit of time up at Hull and I like the full back there Connor, he's a tough, skilful player"

Jake Connor : "I've never played Union, it doesn't look that hard, you never say never but it looks too boring for me"

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Cas Vegas....

May be an image of 5 people, people standing and outdoors

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England RU Coach Eddie Jones : "I spent a bit of time up at Hull and I like the full back there Connor, he's a tough, skilful player"

Jake Connor : "I've never played Union, it doesn't look that hard, you never say never but it looks too boring for me"

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10 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Cas did not get enough time in the the Saints 20m area.  As someone said about their 1st try, (which was a beautiful thing) it needed a dozen things to happen and they all needed a dozen 100% completions.  They rarely managed that after that.  They tried one in second half and failed.  Their errors kept them away from the Saints line.

Frankly the key issue was just on half time when a clear foul on the head stopped a similar attempt.  There was no penalty and no yellow card. For those who wish to play it back you will see all the (generally excellent) commentators agree with me.

The first half was exciting, Cas could not get the 3rd try.   2nd half less so, and the heat should not be allowed to make an excuse.   But for all the excitement the skills were limited, and often broke down.  Both sides gave away easy possession.   Trying to complete the perfect beautiful thing killed Castleford. I wonder if Wire will do any better next season

I thought the same at the time.  It wasn’t much of a hit to Watts head but i thought it was a penalty.  Even when the Ref stopped the play, after Cas passing movements fell apart, I though he was bringing it back for a penalty but instead gave Saints the ball.

The penalty kick conversion would have made Cas 2 scores clear but their lethargy in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half cost them any chance of victory and Saints rightly took advantage.  Saints clearly better on the day.

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I thought the same at the time.  It wasn’t much of a hit to Watts head but i thought it was a penalty.  Even when the Ref stopped the play, after Cas passing movements fell apart, I though he was bringing it back for a penalty but instead gave Saints the ball.

The penalty kick conversion would have made Cas 2 scores clear but their lethargy in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half cost them any chance of victory and Saints rightly took advantage.  Saints clearly better on the day.

Yes good points.   My overall broad point is that small things can make a difference and sometimes don't cancel them out.

PS, I think the best moment of the game was McShanes pass from dummy half. And from that everything was in motion for the try.

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6 hours ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

Saints homecoming parade for both the men’s and women’s Challenge Cup victories will take place this evening. I hope Cas’ players are welcomed home in some way too after taking it to Saints with some style. 

I rather think the Cas players might want to avoid the Saints' fans homecoming style...

No photo description available.

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England RU Coach Eddie Jones : "I spent a bit of time up at Hull and I like the full back there Connor, he's a tough, skilful player"

Jake Connor : "I've never played Union, it doesn't look that hard, you never say never but it looks too boring for me"

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https://www.totalrl.com/saints-star-fages-facing-post-wembley-spell-on-sidelines/
 

Seems Theo Fages was playing with an injury that worsened during the match affecting his passing. This also reads that he made the sacrifice of deciding to come off to the benefit of the team rather than selfishly staying on for his own glory. 
Hands up, I thought he was well below standard, but the injury explains a lot.

I don’t expect that any of that will make people forget his actions in the Semi Final though.

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