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World Class Players


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It depends on what your definition of world class is. In RL I think its difficult because just being an international doesn't really make someone world class. We don't really have the international scene or things like the Champions League for good international measures. Neither does just playing in the NRL make you world class.

I would probably think its amongst the best couple of players in the world in that position. With that in mind I don't think we really have any in Super League. I can understand why people wouldn't agree with that but I just don't see how things like being an international is a strong enough criteria.

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In my view, to be world class you would probaby have to be the in the top 3/4 in your position in the world. 

Bateman of 2019/2020 would be there (not at the moment). Roby maybe. Can't think of anyone else in SL. Clark perhaps?

 

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6 minutes ago, Scubby said:

In my view, to be world class you would probaby have to be the in the top 3/4 in your position in the world. 

Bateman of 2019/2020 would be there (not at the moment). Roby maybe. Can't think of anyone else in SL. Clark perhaps?

 

Walmsley ?

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19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

In my view, to be world class you would probaby have to be the in the top 3/4 in your position in the world. 

Bateman of 2019/2020 would be there (not at the moment). Roby maybe. Can't think of anyone else in SL. Clark perhaps?

 

Yeh I’d have said Bateman then , either he’s regressed a fair bit or he’s lost in the Wigan system 

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I’d go with being regarded as one of the best 3 or 4 in your position worldwide but there are exceptions such as when a player offers something more over and above his contemporaries.

Sam Tomkins is a good example, he’s World Class IMO, he may not have the pace of Papenhausen anymore or the dynamism of Tedesco but his around game is superb and he still does the things that other players seem unable to do.

Others:

Tommy Makinson

Alex Walmsley

Daz Clarke

Roby has been the best modern day Hooker I’ve seen in the game and therefore obviously has been World Class throughout most of his career but I think he’s just dulled a little.

Whitehead was a consideration but while I think he’s a good international standard player there are a number of Second Rowers I’d take before him.

Williams is similar to Whitehead, close but not close enough

Tom Johnstone has the potential still but needs to shake off his injury hoodoo and put a strong season together.

Lots of Young very talented players coming through at a number of clubs but it’s too early to tell on those

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

It depends on what your definition of world class is. In RL I think its difficult because just being an international doesn't really make someone world class. We don't really have the international scene or things like the Champions League for good international measures. Neither does just playing in the NRL make you world class.

I would probably think its amongst the best couple of players in the world in that position. With that in mind I don't think we really have any in Super League. I can understand why people wouldn't agree with that but I just don't see how things like being an international is a strong enough criteria.

I don’t think you can set a hard limit per position as full back is overflowing with talent but there are very few really good centres. Indeed I think only Joey Manu currently stands comparison with the best of the last 25 years whereas I could reel off Tedesco, Papenhuyzen, RTS, Trbojevic, Tomkins, Ponga at minimum as genuine superstars.

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Just now, arcticchris said:

I don’t think you can set a hard limit per position as full back is overflowing with talent but there are very few really good centres. Indeed I think only Joey Manu currently stands comparison with the best of the last 25 years whereas I could reel off Tedesco, Papenhuyzen, RTS, Trbojevic, Tomkins, Ponga at minimum as genuine superstars.

I agree and appreciate that. I didn't really just mean a hard and fast couple in the literal sense.

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2 hours ago, OMEGA said:

I’d go with being regarded as one of the best 3 or 4 in your position worldwide but there are exceptions such as when a player offers something more over and above his contemporaries.

Sam Tomkins is a good example, he’s World Class IMO, he may not have the pace of Papenhausen anymore or the dynamism of Tedesco but his around game is superb and he still does the things that other players seem unable to do.

Others:

Tommy Makinson

Alex Walmsley

Daz Clarke

Roby has been the best modern day Hooker I’ve seen in the game and therefore obviously has been World Class throughout most of his career but I think he’s just dulled a little.

Whitehead was a consideration but while I think he’s a good international standard player there are a number of Second Rowers I’d take before him.

Williams is similar to Whitehead, close but not close enough

Tom Johnstone has the potential still but needs to shake off his injury hoodoo and put a strong season together.

Lots of Young very talented players coming through at a number of clubs but it’s too early to tell on those

Yes, totally agree with those. Would add Roby to that, even at his age as for the past 15 years he was up there with Cameron Smith.

Think yes you would probably base it as in the top 3 or 4 in there position in the world and all of the above are.

In fact I think Tomkins is a better player than when he went to the NRL - he is a real talisman these days and he is the best player in the best team in SL.

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15 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yes, totally agree with those. Would add Roby to that, even at his age as for the past 15 years he was up there with Cameron Smith.

Think yes you would probably base it as in the top 3 or 4 in there position in the world and all of the above are.

In fact I think Tomkins is a better player than when he went to the NRL - he is a real talisman these days and he is the best player in the best team in SL.

With the best coach? 😉

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1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

Yes, totally agree with those. Would add Roby to that, even at his age as for the past 15 years he was up there with Cameron Smith.

Think yes you would probably base it as in the top 3 or 4 in there position in the world and all of the above are.

In fact I think Tomkins is a better player than when he went to the NRL - he is a real talisman these days and he is the best player in the best team in SL.

I'd probably add Knowles in there too. He's as good as anyone in his position 

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If the test of a great player is whether they can do something which makes us gasp with amazement, then I can only think of one box office player in SL, and that’s a fit Tom Johnstone. I can’t think of a single current SL player who would get into a best of SL team. That said, all of the players mentioned above are good players, and Clark in particular is very watchable, they are just not so good that I would go out of my way to buy a ticket to watch them as a neutral. 

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14 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

If the test of a great player is whether they can do something which makes us gasp with amazement, then I can only think of one box office player in SL, and that’s a fit Tom Johnstone. I can’t think of a single current SL player who would get into a best of SL team. That said, all of the players mentioned above are good players, and Clark in particular is very watchable, they are just not so good that I would go out of my way to buy a ticket to watch them as a neutral. 

Cameron Smith was not a bums on seat player. But was not just world class but an all time great. I think your getting the two area's mixed up. 

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5 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Cameron Smith was not a bums on seat player. But was not just world class but an all time great. I think your getting the two area's mixed up. 

No I am not, I very clearly set out my test and then applied it. I wouldn’t take my kids to watch Cameron Smith play as their first game, as what he does is prosaic and admirable rather than entertaining. I would rather show them Clark, or would have rather shown them Cunningham in his prime, as you only need to watch them for a few minutes to realise how hard but exciting our game can be. 

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4 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

No I am not, I very clearly set out my test and then applied it. I wouldn’t take my kids to watch Cameron Smith play as their first game, as what he does is prosaic and admirable rather than entertaining. I would rather show them Clark, or would have rather shown them Cunningham in his prime, as you only need to watch them for a few minutes to realise how hard but exciting our game can be. 

The heading was world class. You can be both but you can one or the other. In the last decade at Warrington Chris Sandow in his first spell was an edge of the seat player. He did things that dropped your jaw. But after the injury never reached those levels again. But he was never world class. Some players by definition of their position could be world class but not an edge of your seat player. But you choose who you take your kids too watch. 

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7 hours ago, Damien said:

 

I would probably think its amongst the best couple of players in the world in that position. 

I think that's a decent proposition though I'd expand it to how many countries (the World class bit) had a realistic chance of winning the WC

I'm sure we'd all agree it's 4 so how about being amongst the best 8 in the world in your position? ( centres, props, wings, halves, second rowers being top 8 due to 2 of each etc) 

Edited by Bedfordshire Bronco
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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

If the test of a great player is whether they can do something which makes us gasp with amazement, then I can only think of one box office player in SL, and that’s a fit Tom Johnstone. I can’t think of a single current SL player who would get into a best of SL team. That said, all of the players mentioned above are good players, and Clark in particular is very watchable, they are just not so good that I would go out of my way to buy a ticket to watch them as a neutral. 

Agree with most of what you are saying, but while Johnstone has a lot of talent with the ball in hand, there are others parts of his game where he is far short of anything that could be described as "world class". If he was to improve on these parts of his game, then perhaps he could one day be considered as a world class player, but at the moment he is well short of that. (Not just my opinion either.... If he was anywhere near World Class, NRL sides would be all over him). 

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4 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Agree with most of what you are saying, but while Johnstone has a lot of talent with the ball in hand, there are others parts of his game where he is far short of anything that could be described as "world class". If he was to improve on these parts of his game, then perhaps he could one day be considered as a world class player, but at the moment he is well short of that. (Not just my opinion either.... If he was anywhere near World Class, NRL sides would be all over him). 

OK - in that case we have no world class players in SL then. Which is probably the case. 

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16 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

OK - in that case we have no world class players in SL then. Which is probably the case. 

Not the case at all - Makemson is a great player and one of the best 4 out and out wingers in the world (Even Bennett said as much). If we are going as Workd Class as being in the top 4 in the world in a position I can't think of 4 better players in that position than Roby and Clarke (lets face is the Aussies think Hodgson is world class and the 3rd best Hooker in the NRL but he's not even the 3rd best English hooker..) - name 4 better NRL players than Roby and Clarke! , Walmsley- all day long one of the best 4 props in the world.

Tomkins now the best player in SL and easily WC.

As others have said Knowles is a great player, getting better and I can't think of too many NRL players better than him.

We all know the NRL is where most WC RL players are, but give true talent some credit where its due - even if (to some peoples disgust on here) - they happen to play in SL.

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3 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

 I can't think of 4 better players in that position than Roby and Clarke (lets face is the Aussies think Hodgson is world class and the 3rd best Hooker in the NRL but he's not even the 3rd best English hooker..) - name 4 better NRL players than Roby and Clarke! , Walmsley- all day long one of the best 4 props in the world.

Hodgson and Walmsley (as well as Bateman, who gets a good few mentions elsewhere on the thread) were all playing for "Great Britain" when they were leathered by PNG in the Kumuls' most recent test match. PNG had a bunch of guys from Carcassonne, Keighley, Doncaster and Central Queensland Capra's all playing for them. Their dummy half was man of the match.... he was playing for Barrow at the time! I take it he must be "World Class" too? (He certainly outplayed Hodgson easily enough!!)

With this core of World Class players, is it just that the rest of the team is incredibly poor or what? They can't even beat part time opposition who were literally thrown together, yet you are on here suggesting that we should call them "world class"??

Laughable. 

 

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