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Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)


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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes, otherwise I wouldn´t of said it. Why do you always pose your opinion as a question instead of just saying, "I don´t think York vs Leeds would get that because of X,Y, and Z?"

I don’t always, but will try to remember not to in future. 
 

Why do you think it would sell out then? York get about 2,000 for big games at the moment, I’d say doubling that for Leeds’ visit is more than generous but let’s say 4,000 home fans. I can’t see Leeds taking 4,000 to a challenge cup game at York, they only had about 5,000 home fans there for the game against Cas. 

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7 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Some shocking figures from Huddersfield and Wakefield for a big cup game. Anyone who thinks the cup should continue in the same format needs to give their head a wobble. Move to groups, with home games included in season tickets just as Super League games are. 

Cornwall have made a fantastic start.

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

For me the group format has a couple of issues.  How many hone games would there be per team?  2, 3?  So season tickets would have to be increased by say £20 to £30 so clubs do not lose too much money.  Also it may lead to ‘dead’ games where clubs cannot qualify and leads to a lack of incentive to attend.
 

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1 minute ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

That leaves just the quarter-final in which a SL team will play at home.  So let each season ticket holder for both home the and away teams  - and supporters from SL clubs that were knocked out in the previous round - have free access to games.  The clubs can recoup some of that money by adding for example £10 to the season ticket cost.

For semi finals each season ticket holder - from all clubs not just the competing teams - could have a discount for a ticket.

I have almost no appetite to attend games not involving my side, let alone cup games that don’t involve my side that may well be on the other side of the Pennines. I don’t think I’d be alone there. 

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8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t always, but will try to remember not to in future. 
 

Why do you think it would sell out then? York get about 2,000 for big games at the moment, I’d say doubling that for Leeds’ visit is more than generous but let’s say 4,000 home fans. I can’t see Leeds taking 4,000 to a challenge cup game at York, they only had about 5,000 home fans there for the game against Cas. 

 You could very well be right but can´t really have a discussion if someone just pops a question but doesn´t give opinion.

Because as you say,  York get about 2k for big games but that ´big game ´ is always a champ team. vs Bulls it´s normally 4k. We´ve also seen that champ clubs against super league at home were getting treble their average attendance. 

I´d say Leeds fans would be more interested in visiting a new ground in a different city against a different but local team to loop fixtures. I think they would take 2k. 

Second if game is on BBC or Prem I think it gives it more of a ´big match feel´ that you could promote and get people in. 

Finally, I am confident in the ownership of both York and Leeds to see it as a chance to get a new fanbase in and market it properly with some dicounts for kids so it looks awesome on the telly. I´d be disappointed and I think both clubs would be as well if they weren´t pushing for a sellout.

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Super League clubs are never going to vote to lose regular season games to replace them with one or two against lower league opposition, who, in the most part, aren’t as appetising from a commercial view as Super League opposition, even if that game is the second home game that season against that particular opposition. I’m not sure how it works with the Sky contract either with a huge drop in fixtures available to them under the current contract. 

I think the feelgood factor around Whitehaven and Barrow hosting Saints and Huddersfield was the scarcity of such fixtures, so I’m not sure how manufacturing the draw so that lower league opposition are always at home would go down after the first few years, once the novelty has worn off. I don’t know if you’d still get the away following a few years down the line or the buzz around the lower league club when the draw is guaranteed that they’ll get the same thing twelve months down the line. 

There’s no easy answer to this. It’s not as simple as reduced ticket prices either, the cup games are generally fairly reasonably priced. 

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3 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

For me the group format has a couple of issues.  How many hone games would there be per team?  2, 3?  So season tickets would have to be increased by say £20 to £30 so clubs do not lose too much money.  Also it may lead to ‘dead’ games where clubs cannot qualify and leads to a lack of incentive to attend.
 

Yes groups of 5, 2 home games per club, it’d be for each individual club to decide the price of their season tickets but adding £20 to £30 is probably about right yes. Is it perfect? No, but it’s far better than Super League clubs getting 3000 fans for cup games.

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7 hours ago, Eddie said:

Do you honestly think York v Leeds would attract anywhere near a 8,000 crowd? 

YES the fixutre would grow as with other places and what better having 2000/4000 at Newcastle, York, Cumbria teams then the same Saleford games and even watching 9000 at Wigan.

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All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 club averages which are for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
  Team 2022 2019 Diff
1 Brisbane 31,090 29,521 5%
2 Paramatta 18,961 18,396 3%
3 Newcastle 16,343 19,055 -14%
4 Penrith 16,225 12,474 30%
5 North Qld 14,811 13,658 8%
6 Sth Sydney 14,789 13,877 7%
7 Melbourne 14,141 14,741 -4%
8 Syd Roost 13,027 15,677 -17%
9 Canterbury 12,305 12,880 -4%
10 Gold Coast 12,244 11,085 10%
11 Canberra 11,605 14,864 -22%
12 Cronulla S 10,642 12,141 -12%
13 Manly 10,297 11,267 -9%
14 St George 10,090 9,813 3%
15 Wests 8,604 13,547 -36%
16 New Zeal 7,085 13,831 -49%
  Total 692,380 734,112 -6%
Avg 14,425 15,294 -6%
Edited by RayCee
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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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26 minutes ago, RayCee said:

All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 average which is for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
  Team 2022 2019 Diff
1 Brisbane 31,090 29,521 5%
2 Paramatta 18,961 18,396 3%
3 Newcastle 16,343 19,055 -14%
4 Penrith 16,225 12,474 30%
5 North Qld 14,811 13,658 8%
6 Sth Sydney 14,789 13,877 7%
7 Melbourne 14,141 14,741 -4%
8 Syd Roost 13,027 15,677 -17%
9 Canterbury 12,305 12,880 -4%
10 Gold Coast 12,244 11,085 10%
11 Canberra 11,605 14,864 -22%
12 Cronulla S 10,642 12,141 -12%
13 Manly 10,297 11,267 -9%
14 St George 10,090 9,813 3%
15 Wests 8,604 13,547 -36%
16 New Zeal 7,085 13,831 -49%
  Total 692,380 734,112 -6%
Avg 14,425 15,294 -6%

Were the roosters still at the SFS in 2019 or had they moved to the SCG by then?

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Were the roosters still at the SFS in 2019 or had they moved to the SCG by then?

They moved in that year. 

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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5 hours ago, RayCee said:

All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 average which is for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
  Team 2022 2019 Diff
1 Brisbane 31,090 29,521 5%
2 Paramatta 18,961 18,396 3%
3 Newcastle 16,343 19,055 -14%
4 Penrith 16,225 12,474 30%
5 North Qld 14,811 13,658 8%
6 Sth Sydney 14,789 13,877 7%
7 Melbourne 14,141 14,741 -4%
8 Syd Roost 13,027 15,677 -17%
9 Canterbury 12,305 12,880 -4%
10 Gold Coast 12,244 11,085 10%
11 Canberra 11,605 14,864 -22%
12 Cronulla S 10,642 12,141 -12%
13 Manly 10,297 11,267 -9%
14 St George 10,090 9,813 3%
15 Wests 8,604 13,547 -36%
16 New Zeal 7,085 13,831 -49%
  Total 692,380 734,112 -6%
Avg 14,425 15,294 -6%

I think the attendance numbers are pretty good especially when you consider we`ve had several games taken to the regions and though only getting 8 - 10 000 at these games they were sell-outs due to ground capacity.

New Zealand through no fault of its` own continue to be a drag on numbers and the terrible weather in NSW ( record breaking March/April rainfall in Sydney and persistently wet in Newcastle ) for the last couple of months is no doubt affecting crowds as well. The SGC is a terrible ground to watch League at the best of times being so far from the action.

I`m pretty confident without the above factors we would have been above last years numbers.

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The thing that alot are missing on this is that is our longest established KO competition or any competition for that matter.

It's the luck of the draw. Why change home teams about for the possibility of better attendances?

There are various ways to market games for next to nothing via social media etc.

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

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7 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

 

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

For most of recent history, people knew it was at Wembley on the August Bank Holiday weekend. Attendances then were still what they were. 

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Tinkering with the early rounds isn't going to enhance the current status or kudos in peoples mind about the Challenge Cup. It may or may not increase attendance but if it increases it will be marginal. It won't change the underlying issue.

At the end of the day the Challenge Cup has lost its place in RL fans hearts and minds, although the final still attracts as an event. Of course if you get to the final it can be a good day out event but until then a lot of RL fans have no buy-in interest in the journey - otherwise attendance wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe its too late but to resurrect it need to bring in a professional marketing organisation to try and elevate the Challenge Cup and bring back some of the excitement of the journey to get to the final and for which people are prepared to pay.  From a promotional aspect I haven't seen much, except an occasional email which just gives ticket details. Nothing to excite or persuade me to attend.

The later QF and SF are on TV which is good but also means most RL fan neutrals won't be bothered to attend the stadium.

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43 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

The thing that alot are missing on this is that is our longest established KO competition or any competition for that matter.

It's the luck of the draw. Why change home teams about for the possibility of better attendances?

There are various ways to market games for next to nothing via social media etc.

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

I think you have managed to skirt around the edge of the fact that that the fundamentals have most probably changed.

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK. Now, they just aren't that popular in the same way in sports like Football and Rugby League. The Cup was created, as the sport of RL was to some extent, to respond to a demand

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK.

It's further back. I started watching sport seriously 35 years ago and the league - in every sport I watched and talked about - was the title to win. The cup(s) definitely had more import than they do now but they were definitely secondary.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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20 hours ago, Eddie said:

I don’t always, but will try to remember not to in future. 
 

Why do you think it would sell out then? York get about 2,000 for big games at the moment, I’d say doubling that for Leeds’ visit is more than generous but let’s say 4,000 home fans. I can’t see Leeds taking 4,000 to a challenge cup game at York, they only had about 5,000 home fans there for the game against Cas. 

York did host Leeds, in a Challenge Cup tie, in January 1989. The game was switched to Bootham Crescent from Clarence Street, owing to capacity issues at the rugby ground. The official attendance was 11,347.

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21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's further back. I started watching sport seriously 35 years ago and the league - in every sport I watched and talked about - was the title to win. The cup(s) definitely had more import than they do now but they were definitely secondary.

maybe before your period but did any fans really care who where the premiership winners.

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1 hour ago, Jughead said:

For most of recent history, people knew it was at Wembley on the August Bank Holiday weekend. Attendances then were still what they were. 

While that turned out out to be true, for the last few years before they moved the timing, the date for the following years game was not confirmed before the final was held. 

I know this to be accurate because I have run a trip for several years and book the tickets and hotels as early as possible so as to get the best prices 

100% League 0% Union

Just because I don't know doesn't mean I don't understand

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23 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

York did host Leeds, in a Challenge Cup tie, in January 1989. The game was switched to Bootham Crescent from Clarence Street, owing to capacity issues at the rugby ground. The official attendance was 11,347.

Great attendance, though that was 33 years ago so not indicative of what would happen now. 

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33 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think you have managed to skirt around the edge of the fact that that the fundamentals have most probably changed.

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK. Now, they just aren't that popular in the same way in sports like Football and Rugby League. The Cup was created, as the sport of RL was to some extent, to respond to a demand

Agreed, the FA Cup for example was massive until it was devalued by the Champions League money, I’d say fans back then would almost have taken an FA Cup win over a league title. 

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40 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's further back. I started watching sport seriously 35 years ago and the league - in every sport I watched and talked about - was the title to win. The cup(s) definitely had more import than they do now but they were definitely secondary.

Obviously you'd know more than me about 25+ years ago 😉

It was more a date to coincide with TV sport like the Premier League, Champions League and Super League in RL. Naturally I bet it was building on an existing trend.

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15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

SL could just have 14 clubs to get rid of loop fixtures instead of dicking around with the challenge cup

That neither addresses the problems with the Challenge Cup or Super League and only resolves to end loop fixtures. 

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I think you have managed to skirt around the edge of the fact that that the fundamentals have most probably changed.

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK. Now, they just aren't that popular in the same way in sports like Football and Rugby League. The Cup was created, as the sport of RL was to some extent, to respond to a demand

I get that completely. We have 2 showpiece events. They should be near to full. No excuses. 

Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah

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