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1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Your figures are fanciful because (and this is by no means a complete list)

- the pitches are not fully booked 

- they assume no costs - maintenance, wages, electricity etc

- VAT

- initial set up costs and likely on going loan repayments

I didnt assume no costs. You obviously have to pay to run it and mantain but you also have to maintain a regular pitch.

I am looking at one pitch not múltiple pitches.  So the idea that in oldham you couldnt rent it from 6-10pm three nights a week and then on weekends is ridículous.  

If it wasnt an investment we wouldnt be seeing so many clubs put one down. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Yes I'm sure it would work like that because its not like there aren't a glut of alternative options available that have plenty of availability already that are sat unused. I would be amazed if any 3g pitch is fully booked 6-10pm and then 10am-10pm at weekends. In fact as I used to coach kids Football and would frequently book 3g pitches I know how easy it is to get the availability you need, even at very short notice.

So now you are building a 3g pitch and a bar (I mean a bar can get plenty of income in other ways anyway regardless of a 3g pitch but we'll ignore that). I presume there are installation cost involved to all of this and maintenance costs by an outside company (not like a grass pitch that you can do much with in house). Then you get the staffing costs.

I think your figures are way off but I cant be bothered arguing hypotheticals. If despite full constant availability all you can come up with is £100k with absolutely no costs then that isn't a very compelling argument.

Theres a location element but again, if there wasnt a clear benefit so many clubs wouldnt be doing it.  

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3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Oldham and Swinton serve as prominent reminders of how fragile clubs are without stadiums

No infrastructure= No future. Swinton do well to get the around a 1000 but it´s the same issue, they go up , they cant really grow and tumble back down. 

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32 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Theres a location element but again, if there wasnt a clear benefit so many clubs wouldnt be doing it.  

We don't see so many doing it. Far more professional clubs have grass pitches than 3g. Even ones that do like Widnes are council owned and have an obligation to their ratepayers to provide community facilities to justify spending millions on a new stadium.

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1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

Isn't this the responsibility of the club I primarily?

Whilst I can understand that argument I don't think RL is strong enough as a sport to let the game wither in places that are strong.

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

We don't see so many doing it. Far more professional clubs have grass pitches than 3g. Even ones that do like Widnes are council owned and have an obligation to their ratepayers to provide community facilities to justify spending millions on a new stadium.

Well in football they cant have them so thats not really a good baromater. This inevitable impacts clubs near the top of national league getting one. Where clubs have the choice and not prevented by risk of tearing it up clubs are putting them down. In league, football rule eliminates Wigan, Hull and Huddersfield from having one. 

Wakey are going for one and I´ll be interested to see what Salford do when they move. It´s the way its going.

On Oldham, I hope the footy club just starts again owned by the fans and they start working with the league side to try and claw that ground back so both can grow together.

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Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Well in football they cant have them so thats not really a good baromater. This inevitable impacts clubs near the top of national league getting one. Where clubs have the choice and not prevented by risk of tearing it up clubs are putting them down. In league, football rule eliminates Wigan, Hull and Huddersfield from having one. 

Wakey are going for one and I´ll be interested to see what Salford do when they move. It´s the way its going.

On Oldham, I hope the footy club just starts again owned by the fans and they start working with the league side to try and claw that ground back so both can grow together.

So no where near so many.

You don't know what clubs would do, that's absurd. You've not actually not named one that has one. That's not so many be anyone's definition.

For some bizarre reason you seem awfully blinded on this subject and are making sweeping statements with no basis.

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7 minutes ago, Damien said:

So no where near so many.

You don't know what clubs would do, that's absurd. You've not actually not named one that has one. That's not so many be anyone's definition.

For some bizarre reason you seem awfully blinded on this subject and are making sweeping statements with no basis.

Sutton and Harrogate had one and had to rip it up, it gave them the income to actually challenge ex football league teams but naturally thats having a chilling effect. Mac immediately put one down when new owner came in and are cleaning up with it. Maidstone put one in and they are going back to conference, Newcastle have one, as do Widnes. Wakefield announced their intention to put one in . 

Over 10 clubs had 3g pitches at National League Step 1-3.

If you are going to ignore the chilling effect of clubs being banned for it as a reason it´s not massively popular but the clubs that can afford to put one down not at risk of having to tear it up are doing so. 

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21 minutes ago, Damien said:

You've not actually not named one that has one

National / National North / National South.(21/22).
Billericay Town @ AGP Arena, Blunts Wall Rd, CM12 9SA. (20/21).
Bradford P A @ Horsfall Stadium , Cemetary Road , Bradford , BD6 2NG.
Bromley , @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.
Dorking Wanderers @ Meadowbank ,Mill Lane, RH4 1DX.
Eastbourn Borough @ Priory Lane, BN23 7QH.
Gloucester City @ Meadow Park, Sudmeadow Rd, Hempsted, GL2 6HS.
Havant & Waterlooville @ Westleigh Park , Martin Rd , Havant , PO9 5TH.
Maidstone United @ The Gallagher Stadium, James Whatman Way, ME14 1LQ.
Oxford City @ Court Place Farm, Marsh Lane, OX3 0NQ.
Slough Town @ Arbour Park, Stoke Rd, SL25AY.
 

Isthmian . (21/22).
AFC Sudbury @ Wardale Williams Stadium, Brundon Lane, CO10 7HN.
Ashford Utd @ Holmelands, Ashford Rd, Kingsnorth, TN26 1NJ.
Aveley @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Barking @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Basingstoke Town @ Hampshire FA Complex, Winklebury Way, Basingstoke, RG23 8BF
Bedfont Sports @ Hatton Rd 3G, Bedfont, TW14 8JA.
Bowers and Pitsea @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE.
Bracknell Town @ Larges Lane, RG12 9AN.
Carshalton Athletic @ War Memorial Sports Gd, Colston Avenue, SM5 2PW.
Cray Wanderers @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.(Bromley FC).
Grays Athletic @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Haringey Borough @ Coles Park Stadium, White Hart Lane. N17 7JN.
Hashtag Utd @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE..
Horsham @ Hop Oast Stadium, off Worthing Rd, RH13 0AX.
Lancing @ Culver Road , Lancing , BN15 9AX.
Margate @ Hartsdown Park, Hartsdown Rd, CT95 5QZ.
Ramsgate @ WW Martin Community Stadium , Prices Avenue , CT11 0AN.
Romford @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Sevenoaks Town @ Mill Lane, BR1 1QQ.
Worthing FC @ 'Woodside', Woodside Rd, BN14 7HQ.

Southern (21/22).
Barwell @ UK Flooring Direct Ground , Kirby Rd , LE9 8FQ.
Beaconsfield Town @ Holloways Park , Windsor Rd , HP9 2SE.
Cirencester @ Corinium Stadium, Kingshill Lane, GL7 1HS.
Coleshill Town @ Pack Meadow, Packington Lane, B46 3JJ.
Dorchester Town @ The Avenue, Weymouth Avenue, DT1 2RY.
Harlow Town @ Barrows Farm,(AKA Harlow Arena),Elizabeth Way,CM19 5BE.
Hendon @ Silver Jubilee Park, Townsend Lane, NW9 7NE.
Hertford @ Hertingfordbury Park , West St , Hertford , SG13 8EZ.
Merthyr Town @ Pennydarren Park, Park Terrace, CF47 8RF.
Redditch Utd @ The Valley, Bromsgrove Rd, B97 4RV.
Rushall Olympic @ Dales Lane, Rushall, WS4 1LJ.
St Ives @ Westwood Road , PE27 6DT.
Tamworth @ The Lamb, Kettlebrook, B77 1AA.
Walton Casuals @ Elmbridge Xcel Sports Hub, Waterside Drive, Walton, KT12 2JG.
Ware @ Wodson Park, Wadesmill Rd, SG12 0UQ.

Northern Premier . (21/22).
Basford Utd @ Mill St P F, Greenwich Avenue, Nottingham, NG6 0LD.
Bedworth Utd @ The Oval, Coventry Rd, CV12 8NN.
Buxton @ Silverlands, SK17 6QH.
Hyde United @ Ewen Fields, Walker Lane, SK14 5PL.
Ilkeston Town @ New Manor Ground , Awsworth Rd , E7 8JF.
Leek Town @ Harrison Park, Macclesfield Rd, Leek, ST13 8LD.
Mickleover FC @ Don Arnott Arena , Station Rd, Mickleover , DE3 9FB.
Morpeth Town @ Craik Park , NE61 2YX.
Scarborough Athletic @ Scarborough Sports Village, 5 Ashburn Rd, YO11 2JW.
Sporting Khalsa @ Aspray Arena, Noose Lane, Willenhall, WV13 3BB.
Stockton Town @ Coverall Stadium , Bishopton Rd West , Stockton on Tees , TS19 0QD.
Sutton Coldfield Town @ Coles Lane, Sutton Coldfield, B72 1NL.
Widnes @ Select Security Stadium, Lower House Lane, Widnes, WA8 7DZ.
Yaxley @ In2itive Park, Leading Drove, PE7 3NA.

That enough of a list? Maybe they are all idiots... 

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51 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

National / National North / National South.(21/22).
Billericay Town @ AGP Arena, Blunts Wall Rd, CM12 9SA. (20/21).
Bradford P A @ Horsfall Stadium , Cemetary Road , Bradford , BD6 2NG.
Bromley , @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.
Dorking Wanderers @ Meadowbank ,Mill Lane, RH4 1DX.
Eastbourn Borough @ Priory Lane, BN23 7QH.
Gloucester City @ Meadow Park, Sudmeadow Rd, Hempsted, GL2 6HS.
Havant & Waterlooville @ Westleigh Park , Martin Rd , Havant , PO9 5TH.
Maidstone United @ The Gallagher Stadium, James Whatman Way, ME14 1LQ.
Oxford City @ Court Place Farm, Marsh Lane, OX3 0NQ.
Slough Town @ Arbour Park, Stoke Rd, SL25AY.
 

Isthmian . (21/22).
AFC Sudbury @ Wardale Williams Stadium, Brundon Lane, CO10 7HN.
Ashford Utd @ Holmelands, Ashford Rd, Kingsnorth, TN26 1NJ.
Aveley @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Barking @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Basingstoke Town @ Hampshire FA Complex, Winklebury Way, Basingstoke, RG23 8BF
Bedfont Sports @ Hatton Rd 3G, Bedfont, TW14 8JA.
Bowers and Pitsea @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE.
Bracknell Town @ Larges Lane, RG12 9AN.
Carshalton Athletic @ War Memorial Sports Gd, Colston Avenue, SM5 2PW.
Cray Wanderers @ Hayes Lane, BR2 9EF.(Bromley FC).
Grays Athletic @ Parkside, Park Lane, RM15 4PX.
Haringey Borough @ Coles Park Stadium, White Hart Lane. N17 7JN.
Hashtag Utd @ Len Salmon Stadium, Crown Ave, Pitsea, SS13 2BE..
Horsham @ Hop Oast Stadium, off Worthing Rd, RH13 0AX.
Lancing @ Culver Road , Lancing , BN15 9AX.
Margate @ Hartsdown Park, Hartsdown Rd, CT95 5QZ.
Ramsgate @ WW Martin Community Stadium , Prices Avenue , CT11 0AN.
Romford @ Mayesbrook Park , Lodge Avenue , Barking , RM8 2JR.
Sevenoaks Town @ Mill Lane, BR1 1QQ.
Worthing FC @ 'Woodside', Woodside Rd, BN14 7HQ.

Southern (21/22).
Barwell @ UK Flooring Direct Ground , Kirby Rd , LE9 8FQ.
Beaconsfield Town @ Holloways Park , Windsor Rd , HP9 2SE.
Cirencester @ Corinium Stadium, Kingshill Lane, GL7 1HS.
Coleshill Town @ Pack Meadow, Packington Lane, B46 3JJ.
Dorchester Town @ The Avenue, Weymouth Avenue, DT1 2RY.
Harlow Town @ Barrows Farm,(AKA Harlow Arena),Elizabeth Way,CM19 5BE.
Hendon @ Silver Jubilee Park, Townsend Lane, NW9 7NE.
Hertford @ Hertingfordbury Park , West St , Hertford , SG13 8EZ.
Merthyr Town @ Pennydarren Park, Park Terrace, CF47 8RF.
Redditch Utd @ The Valley, Bromsgrove Rd, B97 4RV.
Rushall Olympic @ Dales Lane, Rushall, WS4 1LJ.
St Ives @ Westwood Road , PE27 6DT.
Tamworth @ The Lamb, Kettlebrook, B77 1AA.
Walton Casuals @ Elmbridge Xcel Sports Hub, Waterside Drive, Walton, KT12 2JG.
Ware @ Wodson Park, Wadesmill Rd, SG12 0UQ.

Northern Premier . (21/22).
Basford Utd @ Mill St P F, Greenwich Avenue, Nottingham, NG6 0LD.
Bedworth Utd @ The Oval, Coventry Rd, CV12 8NN.
Buxton @ Silverlands, SK17 6QH.
Hyde United @ Ewen Fields, Walker Lane, SK14 5PL.
Ilkeston Town @ New Manor Ground , Awsworth Rd , E7 8JF.
Leek Town @ Harrison Park, Macclesfield Rd, Leek, ST13 8LD.
Mickleover FC @ Don Arnott Arena , Station Rd, Mickleover , DE3 9FB.
Morpeth Town @ Craik Park , NE61 2YX.
Scarborough Athletic @ Scarborough Sports Village, 5 Ashburn Rd, YO11 2JW.
Sporting Khalsa @ Aspray Arena, Noose Lane, Willenhall, WV13 3BB.
Stockton Town @ Coverall Stadium , Bishopton Rd West , Stockton on Tees , TS19 0QD.
Sutton Coldfield Town @ Coles Lane, Sutton Coldfield, B72 1NL.
Widnes @ Select Security Stadium, Lower House Lane, Widnes, WA8 7DZ.
Yaxley @ In2itive Park, Leading Drove, PE7 3NA.

That enough of a list? Maybe they are all idiots... 

What a complete waste of your time that was. They aren't professional clubs.

You've also given up trying to name these so many professional sports clubs. After trying to make up clubs in RL you stopped, you named 1 RU club and despite saying you can't use Football as a barometer have now resorted to googling for a raft of amateur Football clubs.

Edited by Damien
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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

I didnt assume no costs. You obviously have to pay to run it and mantain but you also have to maintain a regular pitch.

I am looking at one pitch not múltiple pitches.  So the idea that in oldham you couldnt rent it from 6-10pm three nights a week and then on weekends is ridículous.  

If it wasnt an investment we wouldnt be seeing so many clubs put one down. 

What is ridiculous is you thinking there is this untapped demand for 3g pitches that will see any future pitch constantly booked out. I mean someone on the last page posted availability regarding Dewsbury which you seem to have conveniently ignored.:

2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Absolutely re bookings. Looking at Dewsbury's pitches this coming weekend a 5 a side pitch is available on all 26 of the available 1 hr slots and the 11-a side pitch on 10 of the possible 14 slots........

 

 

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46 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Sutton and Harrogate had one and had to rip it up, it gave them the income to actually challenge ex football league teams but naturally thats having a chilling effect. Mac immediately put one down when new owner came in and are cleaning up with it. Maidstone put one in and they are going back to conference, Newcastle have one, as do Widnes. Wakefield announced their intention to put one in . 

Over 10 clubs had 3g pitches at National League Step 1-3.

If you are going to ignore the chilling effect of clubs being banned for it as a reason it´s not massively popular but the clubs that can afford to put one down not at risk of having to tear it up are doing so. 

I really doubt any income from a 3G pitch played a big part in those clubs challenging well funded ex football league teams.

Have you any figures to back your claims up.

So in reality Widnes have one & they don’t own the stadium,the 3G pitch at Kingston Park was put down before the RL team was taken over by Kurdi and isn’t Wakefield’s if it happens going to be a training pitch rather than the main one.

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The basic problem is associating Oldham athletic with Oldham football club(original name of the rugby club) . Both clubs have different philosophical foundations. There is very little love between the two groups of supporters. Although latics don't legally own boundary park, the fans own it in their hearts and tend to object vociferously at any attempts at sharing. So it's generally a non starter. I personally think the yeds should share with one of the traditional rugby clubs based east of the town. Oldham St Anne's is ideal as it's  central and has space to develop. Waterhead is based smack bang next to the old watersheddings ground, but has limited potential for development. I hate with a passion the current ground. Wrong side of town, no potential for development and not a traditional rugby ground.

Edit, having sad that, there is one  soccer club I would consider sharing with and that is Chadderton FC. It's a stone's throw from boundary park, easy motorway access and has potential for development. Now as luck would have it they are currently running a fund raising drive to have a 4g pitch installed. So no conflict on churning up the grass. 

Edited by The Art of Hand and Foot
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23 minutes ago, Damien said:

What a complete waste of your time that was. They aren't professional clubs.

Because there is a ban on the pitches which I told you about, many of those clubs have fan bases that are similar or above what we get in the championship.  obviously speaking to someone who cant read is a waste of my time. 

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2 minutes ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

The basic problem is associating Oldham athletic with Oldham football club(original name of the rugby club) . Both clubs have different philosophical foundations. There is very little love between the two groups of supporters. Although latics don't legally own boundary park, the fans own it in their hearts and tend to object vociferously at any attempts at sharing. So it's generally a non starter. I personally think the yeds should share with one of the traditional rugby clubs based east of the town. Oldham St Anne's is ideal as it's  central and had has space to develop. Waterhead is based smack bang next to the old watersheddings ground, but has limited potential for development. I hate with a passion the current ground. Wrong side of town, no potential for development and not a traditional rugby ground.

Wouldn´t need to be big enough for SL either, just champ and if they ever got to SL then they could justify renting the bigger ground. 

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Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Because there is a ban on the pitches which I told you about, obviously speaking to someone who cant read is a waste of my time. 

We were talking about professional sports clubs. You said so many clubs are doing it, they aren't.

No need for the insults just because you can't back up anything that you claim.

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5 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I really doubt any income from a 3G pitch played a big part in those clubs challenging well funded ex football league teams.

Have you any figures to back your claims up.

So in reality Widnes have one & they don’t own the stadium,the 3G pitch at Kingston Park was put down before the RL team was taken over by Kurdi and isn’t Wakefield’s if it happens going to be a training pitch rather than the main one.

What do you think? Its just another sweeping statement without basis.

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22 minutes ago, Damien said:

What a complete waste of your time that was. They aren't professional clubs.

I know Eastbourne Borough. You can't hire the pitch. And it wouldn't matter anyway because there are 3G pitches elsewhere in Eastbourne, including at the Sports Park which is where all the teams that want a 3G pitch play.

What Borough do really well - and this isn't meant to lecture anyone, it's just an observation - is they have a clubhouse/bar/social club that is full *all the time*. They're one of the few football clubs I've seen who seem to act like a rugby union club with social memberships and the like.

Bit like, to connect it back to RL, how the Willows Club was back in the (before my) day at Salford.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I know Eastbourne Borough. You can't hire the pitch. And it wouldn't matter anyway because there are 3G pitches elsewhere in Eastbourne, including at the Sports Park which is where all the teams that want a 3G pitch play.

What Borough do really well - and this isn't meant to lecture anyone, it's just an observation - is they have a clubhouse/bar/social club that is full *all the time*. They're one of the few football clubs I've seen who seem to act like a rugby union club with social memberships and the like.

Bit like, to connect it back to RL, how the Willows Club was back in the (before my) day at Salford.

And that's it in a nutshell.

As I said initially on this there are plenty of ways to generate revenue. Many RL clubs are incredibly poor at this as your example illustrates. Thinking a 3g pitch is always the answer is incredibly simplistic.

Edited by Damien
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13 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I know Eastbourne Borough. You can't hire the pitch. And it wouldn't matter anyway because there are 3G pitches elsewhere in Eastbourne, including at the Sports Park which is where all the teams that want a 3G pitch play.

What Borough do really well - and this isn't meant to lecture anyone, it's just an observation - is they have a clubhouse/bar/social club that is full *all the time*. They're one of the few football clubs I've seen who seem to act like a rugby union club with social memberships and the like.

Bit like, to connect it back to RL, how the Willows Club was back in the (before my) day at Salford.

We have this problem which some clubs are making progress with and others are stuck with poor infrastructure. The clubs with good infrastructure are starting to pull away. 

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3 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I came on this thread to read a debate regarding RL in Oldham but have come away with a thorough list of advantages and disadvantages of 3G pitches

I think the problem is that there really aren't too many discussion points with regards to Oldham RL. Any kind of joint working with the football club is basically a non starter for about a thousand different reasons - and all options that could move them out of their current situation seem to have already been explored and/or proven to not be practical.

They need a miracle.

Or a 3G pitch.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

I came on this thread to read a debate regarding RL in Oldham but have come away with a thorough list of advantages and disadvantages of 3G pitches

Quite. What an odd thread.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I think the problem is that there really aren't too many discussion points with regards to Oldham RL. Any kind of joint working with the football club is basically a non starter for about a thousand different reasons - and all options that could move them out of their current situation seem to have already been explored and/or proven to not be practical.

They need a miracle.

Or a 3G pitch.

They dont have infrastructure, together are in the same boat as most clubs in manchester and London and Bulls and none can reach their potential whilst that remains the case. No surprise that clubs like Fev have now become so good with all the income they can generate and the clubs behind them (York, Barrow) can generate rev.

Its a shame for Oldham, they could probably pull in a few thousand if they had something decent. 

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