Less than 20,000 sold for Cup Semi Triple Header it seems

[Gerrumonside ref]

I also think the women’s final should be part of a Challenge Cup final themed weekend where if possible the men’s Challenge Cup final, women’s Challenge Cup final and the Wheelchair Challenge Cup final all take place on one weekend in the same city with cross promotion on the BBC.

That might encourage people to take in all three over a weekend and hopefully inflate the wonen’s and wheelchair rugby league interest further.

I think there’s possibilities budget permitting for the women’s and wheelchair competitions to grow further.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[daz39]

3 hours ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

There is literally no evidence to back this up - a few anecdotal comments don't validate that comment. 

I see ER for exactly what it is - a stadium that at least 2 stands needs knocking down and rebuilding. Mainly to increase attendance but also to extend corporate facilities. That said, what exists there at the moment is lots of recently refurbished (or semi-refurbished at least) concourses and facilities that surpass all SL stadiums by a country mile. I notice nobody answered my previous question of 'What do RL fans want and what stadium would that be at?' 

Hahaha I've never heard such a dramatic response! You're playing at a Premier League football stadium for goodness sake - bless your fragile heart having to 'endure' that. Doesn't seem to have bothered Hull KR fans that much......

 

You are basically dismissing people's opinions and thoughts because in YOURS Elland road is a fine stadium and it's in the premier league so everyone who doesn't agree should get a grip and stop being so dramatic????

It was still a largely, ugly, uncomfortable hard place to get to when it was hosting league 1 football a few years back too, LUFC being in the premier league doesn't and won't change people's opinion on the place no matter how much you try and dress it up, it's your home ground, you like it that's understandable, to most of us it isn't and we don't and make decisions on whether to attend based on that along with other factors.

 

PS, You're right about my fragile heart, i have the scars and devices fitted to prove that!!

Edited May 6, 2022 by daz39

[hunsletgreenandgold]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You keep saying this, but evidence has been provided - it is your prerogative to dismiss it and say it is other reasons, but in the absence of black and white evidence we need to apply some common sense to what we see.

And it is important that when we talk about grounds, it is not just the legroom, but it is the whole thing, location, transport links, area, quality, viewing points etc.

Example 1. Four Nations 2014 - Olympic Stadium vs NZ - 44,393 - 2 years later versus the Aussies 35,569. Now there were other factors at play here - scheduling (Saturday vs Sunday), but that is a huge drop for a game that always delivers higher crowds than the NZ game. The experience at the Olympic Stadium was terrible in that first game, and it was no surprise that there was a huge drop for that 2nd one.

Example 2. Four Nations 2016 - Anfield 40k - for the final versus NZ and Aus - that was a great crowd and there was clearly a huge uplift for the novelty of going to Anfield. Two years later, we went back there for a game that featured England and we knocked 14k off that crowd.  The 26k wasn't terrible in itself for a game versus the Kiwis, but the second huge drop in two years cannot be ignored.

Example 3. Following on from the above - Magic Weekend delivered the following:

62k, 64k, 68k, 68k, 65k, 64k, 57k, 61k.  Spot the odd one out?

 

Of course, we are RL fans, we will moan about all sorts of things, but there is absolutely evidence that fans are voting with their feet when it comes to stadium choice. I hope this weekend isn't one of them, as I don't think Elland Road is that bad that it should put fans off going to see their team in a semi final, but similarly it isn;t good enough to draw in the neutrals to sit for 8 hours there.

I understand it's about the whole thing but i'm trying to understand, other than this 'legroom' issue just what exactly ER is getting so slaughtered for it's apparently keeping thousands away? 

Transport links - well direct to the stadium it's just off a major motorway which of course gets busy near the ground close to kick off but name me a stadium but doesn't. But as far as fans travelling from Yorks/Lancs go, they couldn't be much better. By train, into the centre and then bus shuttle services run frequently to and from the stadium - takes about 10 mins. 

Restricted view - less than 500 seats in a stadium that holds 38,000 isn't really a big deal and viewing points in general have never really been an issue that i'm aware of. 

Area - I'll grant you there's not a lot around ER itself other than a few pubs, but if fans can't leave the stadium anyway i'm not sure how much that matters? Other than Wembley, and city centre based stadiums (so that's Newcastle and Cardiff) i'm not sure many stadiums have anything beyond generic retail parks and massive supermarkets? 

Where we differ is on what you call evidence of the stadium been the key factor in drop offs - I sight various other reasons. as you say, that's each of our prerogative. But just to throw in an anomaly - ER, ironically, got the highest attendance by some distance last time England played NZ. Was that because ER was deemed the best stadium of the 3 to go to? Or simply because it was the 'final' of the 3? I'd say it was the latter and that's my point with the other drop offs you mention - what the game is matters significantly more on whether people attend or not than the stadium...IMO. 

Just on your last point and I think this is important. How is it we're seemingly going to get 7,000+ Hull KR fans and far less of the other teams. Hudds we know don't travel well but what of Wigan and Saints? Do Hull KR fans not care about the stadium and Wigan/Saints do? The distance is negligible so what's making the huge discrepancy? Most likely it's because those fans do a lot more travelling for CC finals/GF and therefore are they're weighing up what they should spend on. I don't believe the stadium choice is playing a huge role in that, other than they'd have maybe preferred it closer to them...but of course that's not how works when a venue is picked so far in advance. 

[daz39]

38 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Will the RFL lose money on this can anyone guess?

What is the break even point for these kinds of double-headers?

Would Saints-Wigan at Warrington and Hull KR vs Huddersfield at Headingley not have made more sense?

Proportionally bigger crowds in rugby league stadiums earning and keeping the extra revenue in the game.

Short answer - Yes, although still in Leeds more of our fans would attend a semi-final at Headingley than Elland road, it is easier to get to using public transport, has socialising options nearby and more importantly it's a better stadium!.

Edited May 6, 2022 by daz39

[hunsletgreenandgold]

14 minutes ago, daz39 said:

You are basically dismissing people's opinions and thoughts because in YOURS is Elland road is a fine stadium and it's in the premier league so everyone who doesn't agree should get a grip and stop being so dramatic????

It was still a largely, ugly, uncomfortable hard place to get to when it was hosting league 1 football a few back too, LUFC being in the premier leageu does and won't changed people's opinion on the place no matter how much you try and dress it up, it's your home ground, you like it that's understandable, to most of us it isn't and we don't and make decisions on whether to attend based on that along with other factors.

 

PS, You're right about my fragile heart, i have the scars and devices fitted to prove that!!

I'm not - if that's your opinion then fair enough. What I am doing is challenging the idea that this is the primary reason thousands are apparently staying - that I find ludicrous. 

Hard place to get to - from where?? Are you not from Huddersfield? 

Like I just evidenced a post or so back - ER was the same stadium in the same place in 2018 when over 32,000 came to watch game 3 of England v NZ but all of this apparent issues with the stadium were known. So the stadium hasn't changed and lots of other circumstances have....but you want to blame the stadium choice....make it make sense? 

 

 

[daz39]

2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I'm not - if that's your opinion then fair enough. What I am doing is challenging the idea that this is the primary reason thousands are apparently staying - that I find ludicrous. 

Hard place to get to - from where?? Are you not from Huddersfield? 

Like I just evidenced a post or so back - ER was the same stadium in the same place in 2018 when over 32,000 came to watch game 3 of England v NZ but all of this apparent issues with the stadium were known. So the stadium hasn't changed and lots of other circumstances have....but you want to blame the stadium choice....make it make sense? 

 

 

Yes and i'm going, it's not an issue to me as i travel to all my teams away games but a lot of people will want to use public transport and Elland Road is notoriously poor and out of town and 15-20 walk from the nearest railway station and at least 35-40 from the city centre, to some people that will be as big a factor as ticket prices, distance, legroom, immediate area, lack of movement etc etc, there are lots of factors that will add up to people choosing not to go, i'm not debating with you over it as clearly you will defend Elland road all day long as you aren't seeing it in the same eyes as most of us, please accept that it is in a general opinion not a popular stadium to sit for 7 hours in!.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

7 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Yes and i'm going, it's not an issue to me as i travel to all my teams away games but a lot of people will want to use public transport and Elland Road is notoriously poor and out of town and 15-20 walk from the nearest railway station and at least 35-40 from the city centre, to some people that will be as big a factor as ticket prices, distance, legroom, immediate area, lack of movement etc etc, there are lots of factors that will add up to people choosing not to go, i'm not debating with you over it as clearly you will defend Elland road all day long as you aren't seeing it in the same eyes as most of us, please accept that it is in a general opinion not a popular stadium to sit for 7 hours in!.

So, i'll ask again - where should it have been played? 

[daz39]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

So, i'll ask again - where should it have been played? 

It shouldn't, it should be 2 neutral venues where all sets off fans can have their day to themselves and their opponents.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

7 minutes ago, daz39 said:

It shouldn't, it should be 2 neutral venues where all sets off fans can have their day to themselves and their opponents.

I don't disagree with you on that, but that's not what we have unfortunately. I'm trying to understand under these circumstances, where else could've been selected or was even available that would've seemingly attracted more fans in your view? 

[RigbyLuger]

45 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I also think the women’s final should be part of a Challenge Cup final themed weekend where if possible the men’s Challenge Cup final, women’s Challenge Cup final and the Wheelchair Challenge Cup final all take place on one weekend in the same city with cross promotion on the BBC.

That might encourage people to take in all three over a weekend and hopefully inflate the wonen’s and wheelchair rugby league interest further.

I think there’s possibilities budget permitting for the women’s and wheelchair competitions to grow further.

They were waxing lyrically about wheelchair RL on 4020 pdocast this week, and it really does sound like something we can really push to grow interest in RL as a whole.

[Eddie]

43 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Other than Wembley, and city centre based stadiums (so that's Newcastle and Cardiff) i'm not sure many stadiums have anything beyond generic retail parks and massive supermarkets? 

Carrow Road can be added to that short list. 

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

They were waxing lyrically about wheelchair RL on 4020 pdocast this week, and it really does sound like something we can really push to grow interest in RL as a whole.

When it returns to Wembley, I'm sure there is nothing stopping the RFL hosting the wheelchair final on the morning of the match at the Wembley conference centre or arena. It would be packed out and could make the Challenge Cup a festival day. 

If you were going to have another game the women's Challenge Cup final at Wembley makes more sense than the 1895 Cup final. However, the RFL are hell bent on selling tickets to existing fans rather than trying to create a showpiece occasion for neutrals. The 1895 cup is a very lazy way of doing that I suppose.

[RigbyLuger]

The venue was decided well ahead of who would play in it. so you can rule out any RL stadium for a double/triple-header.

[wilsontown]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

I've seen a few posters lamenting the RFL's inability to make the Cup Semi-Finals a "big event".

My question for those posters is this: with the teams in these Semi-Finals representing four towns which the British public almost certainly doesn't associate with big events or with big time major pro sport, just how do you suggest the RFL make them a big event?

I think the point is that the semi-finals are never going to be a big event for neutral fans, so trying to make it into that was doomed to failure from the start.

[wilsontown]

26 minutes ago, daz39 said:

It shouldn't, it should be 2 neutral venues where all sets off fans can have their day to themselves and their opponents.

Exactly.

[Josef K]

I’ll be leaving mine at about 11am tomorrow and then making my way to Leeds, i will definitely be watching both games whether Saints win or lose. I am more relaxed for the second match because i have no allegiances. 
 

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Josef K said:

i will definitely be watching both games 
 

There are three games being played.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There are three games being played.

If nothing emphasises the women's game just being tagged on and seen as unimportant it's that. I don't even blame Josef for not knowing, or even caring as I don't see many other Wigan or Saints fans leaving at 9am to see it, but I do certainly blame the RFL.

Edited May 6, 2022 by Damien

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

If nothing emphasises the women's game just being tagged on and seen as unimportant it's that. I don't even blame Josef for not knowing, or even caring as I don't see many other Wigan or Saints fans leaving at 9am to see it, but I do certainly blame the RFL.

Yes - wasn't having a go at the poster in question but more sharing my absolute frustration about how the women's game isn't even a curtain raiser in most attendees' minds.

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Will the RFL lose money on this can anyone guess?

What is the break even point for these kinds of double-headers?

Would Saints-Wigan at Warrington and Hull KR vs Huddersfield at Headingley not have made more sense?

Proportionally bigger crowds in rugby league stadiums earning and keeping the extra revenue in the game.

They booked the venue long before they knew who the semi finalists would be. 
 

[Rach]

2 hours ago, daz39 said:

It shouldn't, it should be 2 neutral venues where all sets off fans can have their day to themselves and their opponents.

Blackpool - a game each on Sat/ Sunday ? Maybe 1895 Semis as curtain raisers ?

just shy of 18'000 capacity . should be  enough space or big enough to post the sold out notices without regular fans being in danger of not getting a ticket .

Edited May 6, 2022 by Rach

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

Do we have a breakdown of ticket sales from individual clubs?

Seeing 6,000 - 7,000 for Hull KR but what about the others.

[Scubby]

15 minutes ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Do we have a breakdown of ticket sales from individual clubs?

Seeing 6,000 - 7,000 for Hull KR but what about the others.

I think Hull KR are at 20,000 now with Saints, Wigan and Hudds at -500 each.

Those Robins fans love to travel!

[hunsletgreenandgold]

16 minutes ago, Rach said:

Blackpool - a game each on Sat/ Sunday ? Maybe 1895 Semis as curtain raisers ?

just shy of 18'000 capacity . should be  enough space or big enough to post the sold out notices without regular fans being in danger of not getting a ticket .

Dear god no! If anybody thought drunken yobs at Wembley weren't problem enough, let's stick 4 sets of fans in sin city Blackpool for a weekend. It would just be one big p*ss up. I can't think of any other merit of wanting to hold it there either? Certainly can't see how that move would make it attractive to neutral/new fans. 

[Rach]

5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Dear god no! If anybody thought drunken yobs at Wembley weren't problem enough, let's stick 4 sets of fans in sin city Blackpool for a weekend. It would just be one big p*ss up. I can't think of any other merit of wanting to hold it there either? Certainly can't see how that move would make it attractive to neutral/new fans. 

Fair enough  Just a thought ..