Less than 20,000 sold for Cup Semi Triple Header it seems

[Barley Mow]

4 hours ago, Scubby said:

It is embarrassing and the women's RLWC is going to be a huge wake up call for the lack respect and investment given to the game here. It's going to be 1982 Kangaroos all over again.

It won't be that close!

[DOGFATHER]

5 hours ago, DoubleD said:

A triple header is an overload even for an avid RL fan like myself, let alone having to sit in an uncomfortable stadium. The women's game should be a standalone showpiece event as you say

Genuine question, if the women's final was a standalone event, what sort of crowd would you expect? What do you think the price of admission should be?

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, DOGFATHER said:

Genuine question, if the women's final was a standalone event, what sort of crowd would you expect? What do you think the price of admission should be?

I think the SL Grand Final at Leeds got around 5,500 last year.

[yipyee]

13 hours ago, meast said:

Is there really 3 or 4 pages of the same 2 or 3 posters arguing about a crowd in 1939

Any chance we could discuss why the ticket sales for the triple header haven't sold very well?

50 pound tickets to a game that would be 15 pound tickets for a league match, not to mention the travel expense

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Anita Bath said:

A great institution that reached far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game has been allowed to wither, or should I say, has been managed in ways that achieved the objective of withering away.

Did it really reach far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game though?  Yes the matches were shown nationally, but how many genuine southerners, Midlanders or Londoners were tuning in?

[Anita Bath]

Without an audience outside of the north I doubt the BBC would have been interested in showing the game as well as build up live on its main channel.

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Without an audience outside of the north I doubt the BBC would have been interested in showing the game as well as build up live on its main channel.

I didn't suggest that there wasn't an audience outside of the north, I was only asking how many in that group weren't northerners who'd moved elsewhere to work and live.  Chances are that such northerners were the bulk of the audience outside of the north.

[RL Sonja]

4 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

The cup was the highlight of the second half of the season.  There were 31 teams you could be drawn against in the first round and the draw was awaited with much anticipation.  The rounds followed with 16, 8, 4 and then 2 semis I dont even know what number round my team enters now.

Since all 30 teams were in the same league (two teamsfrom outside the league made it through to the first round) and all teams were part time there was much greater chance of upsets. The idea that some teams might not enter the competition was completely fictional.

This season the number of games in each round from the entry of league 1 teams have been 6, 10, 5, 8, 4 and now the semis. All very haphazard and aimed at reducing the number of ties that involve super league versus the rest.

A great institution that reached far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game has been allowed to wither, or should I say, has been managed in ways that achieved the objective of withering away.

 

 

 

 

I said the same thing using actual attendances and was hung for it because a couple of posters got caught out in their knowledge. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by RL Sonja

[RL Sonja]

In terms of combined attendances for the Challenge Cup Semis, it would be hard to go past 1956.

Including the replay, the total attendance was 135,517 (51,889, 38,897 and 44,731).

[RL Sonja]

The attendances at Odsal, Station Road and Central Park respectively. Three former immense grounds of the League which have also been allowed to die off. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by RL Sonja

[gingerjon]

8 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Genuine question, if the women's final was a standalone event, what sort of crowd would you expect? What do you think the price of admission should be?

£10 adults, £5 concessions, kids free. Pick a ground where the majority of the crowd can be put in a stand facing the cameras.

At a guess, anything in the 3,000 - 6,000 range.

Does that make a profit? No real idea TBH. But it also gives the match the respect it deserves and puts TGG at least on a level with our sporting rivals.

[Rach]

9 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

Genuine question, if the women's final was a standalone event, what sort of crowd would you expect? What do you think the price of admission should be?

Have a look at the crowd demographics for England Women's Football / Rugby Union - Lots of families encouraging young girls to watch a sport or see a 'big' game at less cost compared to the men's fixtures and groups of women/ girls enjoying a day out . Rugby League has more than many sports of folk who will just turn up 'if there is a game on ' regardless of whos playing and obviously if the final does not coincide with any men's fixtures you will have considerable support from the two finalists .

 My thoughts on an earlier post
 

Quote

Should be a stand alone event at a smaller ground (Featherstone is an ideal venue )on a day where there are no other pro fixtures and the whole day can be given over to a celebration of the Womens Game .

Junior / youth / Lower league open ages / Masters /  tournaments taking place in the morning  at satellite grounds locally ,winners presentations / pre match games, have a go sessions ,match official development , maybe even some recognition for the early pioneers of the sport at some point ?

All the junior teams receiving free tickets and ensuring that the top SL Players not actually taking in the final are in attendance and 'mingling' as an opportunity for the young uns to meet up close  positive playing  roles models to aspire to in the game .

With the Women's World Cup Games coming up a stand alone event like that, (Obviously still with media coverage ) would have been the ideal way to publicise what the womens game is about, not at 11am in front of a near empty stadium 

We had a massive womens development nines comp the other weekend , marrying that with a stand alone final should have been a massive boost for the WSL ..personally I dont get it ...
 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

14 hours ago, Dave T said:

I disagree, and I think your thinking is flawed. 

The par for the semi finals is 25k - its broadly what we had as standalone and as double headers. If this comes in at the 20k mark, this move has driven a 20% drop. It is the main change from previous years so logic dictates that it is the biggest factor (although not the only one). 

That 38k go for football isn't relevant as dealing in these absolute numbers is all relative. 

 

I think 25k is not par for the semis in recent years, more like 23k. The last few single headers weren't very well supported generally, although there are probably other factors involved (like day/time of match). I thought 10k for Wigan v Hull was criminally low.

2017-25k

2016-21k

2015-24k

2014-24k

2013-17k

2012-21k

Going back before that, you start to get above 25k.

 

I think if we get around the 23k mark, it is about par. I think the biggest factor here is the post-pandemic cost-of-living crisis personally. Possibly also familiarity for the likes Saints and Wigan might affect them not bringing what you'd expect of a bigger club too.

It's disappointing, but I wouldn't say it's off the expected personally.

[Eddie]

10 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Did it really reach far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game though?  Yes the matches were shown nationally, but how many genuine southerners, Midlanders or Londoners were tuning in?

A lot. 

[Sandy]

Always used to like just the one semi final on the day, the excitement of going a neutral ground and mixing with the other teams supporters. One of my particular memories is the 20th of April, 1963, my team Hull Kingston Rovers v Wigan semi final of the Challenge Cup at Headingley. I was 13yrs old and went with my Dad and Grandad. Before the game we had gone into Leeds for something to eat and went into a Chinese restaurant, my Dad had served in the Royal  Navy during the 2nd World War out in the Far East and had picked up a  taste for curries and spicier food and had got me onto them but not his Dad. We are sat in this restaurant, Dad and me had a curry but Grandad wasn't eating that muck, as he sat there, flat cap on, shirt sleeves and braces, wide leather belt around  his  trousers and a fag end stuck out of the side of his mouth. He finished up with some meat, Beef ?? and chips. Onto the ground, such excitement, what an atmosphere but the mighty Wigan of that time beat us 18 - 4 and the horrible disappointment walking away but great memories.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

14 hours ago, Dave T said:

I said it was par for standalone and double headers. 

Around 25k has been the number for a fair while. 

Where do you get the 22k from? And why are you suggesting a 10% drop is fine? 

People aren't lying when they say they won't go to a ground because its awful. It wouldn't put me off going to see my team in a semi final, but I can understand why some have no interest in going there. 

You don't think there will be at least 22k there? And if it is around the 25k mark what does that mean about the stadium choice? 

I'm not suggesting people are lying - i'm saying it's a convenient excuse that only seems to affect spectators of RL at ER. As I said before, i'm under no illusions of ER's problems but 'awful' really? Based on what? 

I stick by the reasons that I believe the attendance won't be as good as it could have been - the stadium choice is way down on that list, almost to the point of irrelevance. Many fans i'm sure have their own genuine reasons - the ones mentioning the stadium just seem fair weather frankly. 

As a side note, if we can't sell out Tottenham stadium for the final (arguably the best stadium in the world) then I wonder what excuses will be given then.....

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

Hopefully this is the last of the Semi Final double headers/Triple Headers with the Women’s Final 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

You don't think there will be at least 22k there? And if it is around the 25k mark what does that mean about the stadium choice? 

I'm not suggesting people are lying - i'm saying it's a convenient excuse that only seems to affect spectators of RL at ER. As I said before, i'm under no illusions of ER's problems but 'awful' really? Based on what? 

I stick by the reasons that I believe the attendance won't be as good as it could have been - the stadium choice is way down on that list, almost to the point of irrelevance. Many fans i'm sure have their own genuine reasons - the ones mentioning the stadium just seem fair weather frankly. 

As a side note, if we can't sell out Tottenham stadium for the final (arguably the best stadium in the world) then I wonder what excuses will be given then.....

We do have a fair bit of evidence to go on that stadium selection affects the crowds quite a bit, so I don't think it would be right to claim it as an irrelevance. 

A perfect example is Anfield getting 40k for Aus v NZ in a 4N, and then when England went back there we got 25k as people didn't like the experience and novelty had worn off. A similar thing happened at the Olympic Stadium when we dropped around 10k over a couple of years. 

If we do get the 25k then great, it's done as well as other years, but the news that we hadn't sold 20k a couple of days ago is disappointing. But I hope it is unnecessary worry. 

One final point, just because Leeds United sell the ground out doesn't mean it isn't an issue. When demand for the product exceeds number of seats, issues are hidden. If Leeds United played at Wakefields Belle Vue, they'd pack it out yet it wouldn't mean there is no issue.

[RP London]

13 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

The cup was the highlight of the second half of the season.  There were 31 teams you could be drawn against in the first round and the draw was awaited with much anticipation.  The rounds followed with 16, 8, 4 and then 2 semis I dont even know what number round my team enters now.

Since all 30 teams were in the same league (two teamsfrom outside the league made it through to the first round) and all teams were part time there was much greater chance of upsets. The idea that some teams might not enter the competition was completely fictional.

This season the number of games in each round from the entry of league 1 teams have been 6, 10, 5, 8, 4 and now the semis. All very haphazard and aimed at reducing the number of ties that involve super league versus the rest.

A great institution that reached far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game has been allowed to wither, or should I say, has been managed in ways that achieved the objective of withering away.

 

 

 

 

When people talk about wanting something to play for at the end of the season, that was the beauty of the cup... you could have been mid table and then focus on the cup rather than needing to have tension till the last match for every team. 

I still think this would be the best option but it would need to clever thinking from the RFL etc to make it work properly with the play offs etc.. 

My other though has always been top 4 in the league to the play offs + winner of challenge cup who comes in as 5th seed (if already in the play offs then the beaten finalist, if they are also in then its 5th placed in the league).

[RP London]

11 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Did it really reach far beyond the traditional boundaries of the game though?  Yes the matches were shown nationally, but how many genuine southerners, Midlanders or Londoners were tuning in?

From my experience there were quite a few.. it was something that people would tune in to watch on Grandstand.. that said this is a little bit like talking about the 1930s attendances as there were only 3-4 channels and very little live sport on TV. 

People wanting to watch sport on a Saturday afternoon would tune in and RL would be on, they would enjoy it because it was a good game, they would also watch international matches for the same reason. Now there is so much choice that this is much harder to catch the larger audiences. 

So to answer your question, yes I believe it did touch many people across the country not just ex pat northerners, however, times have moved on significantly. Yet it is still something to use and look at and see if it can somehow be brought back.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We do have a fair bit of evidence to go on that stadium selection affects the crowds quite a bit, so I don't think it would be right to claim it as an irrelevance. 

A perfect example is Anfield getting 40k for Aus v NZ in a 4N, and then when England went back there we got 25k as people didn't like the experience and novelty had worn off. A similar thing happened at the Olympic Stadium when we dropped around 10k over a couple of years. 

If we do get the 25k then great, it's done as well as other years, but the news that we hadn't sold 20k a couple of days ago is disappointing. But I hope it is unnecessary worry. 

One final point, just because Leeds United sell the ground out doesn't mean it isn't an issue. When demand for the product exceeds number of seats, issues are hidden. If Leeds United played at Wakefields Belle Vue, they'd pack it out yet it wouldn't mean there is no issue.

Sorry to say, but I feel like you're comparing apples to oranges there, Dave. One was a 4N final that many hoped/expected England would get to, the other an underwhelming 3 match series against NZ for the second time in 3 years. I can not believe 14,000 people stayed away because people didn't like the Anfield experience. Novelty factor maybe played a part, but that's true of all stadiums. 

I'm starting to wonder what RL fans believe qualifies as a quality stadium? 

I agree with your last point but i'm not sure what that actually means for RL when it comes to these games where we pick a venue? It feels like it means we're more fussy because demand is so low and unless it's perfect we'll just stay away? 

Edited May 5, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[crashmon]

I do miss grandstand and world of sport...

[RP London]

4 minutes ago, crashmon said:

I do miss grandstand and world of sport...

me too.. while typing my answer I did wonder where Transworld Sport had gone too.. loved that show! 

[Mattrhino]

48 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We do have a fair bit of evidence to go on that stadium selection affects the crowds quite a bit, so I don't think it would be right to claim it as an irrelevance. 

A perfect example is Anfield getting 40k for Aus v NZ in a 4N, and then when England went back there we got 25k as people didn't like the experience and novelty had worn off. A similar thing happened at the Olympic Stadium when we dropped around 10k over a couple of years. 

If we do get the 25k then great, it's done as well as other years, but the news that we hadn't sold 20k a couple of days ago is disappointing. But I hope it is unnecessary worry. 

One final point, just because Leeds United sell the ground out doesn't mean it isn't an issue. When demand for the product exceeds number of seats, issues are hidden. If Leeds United played at Wakefields Belle Vue, they'd pack it out yet it wouldn't mean there is no issue.

Oh god don't remind me of that dross. Was worse than a exhibition match played in a library  

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Sorry to say, but I feel like you're comparing apples to oranges there, Dave. One was a 4N final that many hoped/expected England would get to, the other an underwhelming 3 match series against NZ for the second time in 3 years. I can not believe 14,000 people stayed away because people didn't like the Anfield experience. Novelty factor maybe played a part, but that's true of all stadiums. 

I'm starting to wonder what RL fans believe qualifies as a quality stadium? 

I agree with your last point but i'm not sure what that actually means for RL when it comes to these games where we pick a venue? It feels like it means we're more fussy because demand is so low and unless it's perfect we'll just stay away? 

Just to add a little anecdotal evidence to this... I love Magic Weekend and go every year with a group of mates (except this year as have a wedding which I am very annoyed about!) but if it ever went back to Anfield I wouldnt go as it was not the same experience, it was quite cramped and I do like it being in the heart of the city with things going on around it.