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I do think Rimmer was probably quite a capable administrator, I've heard plenty of people whose opinions I trust say so. But he's not the leader the game needed, and possibly never would be.

I do however think we need someone from outside the game. Someone with desire to improve and progress, but also enough recent experience to not pose too much of a risk. 
Someone with the appetite for a fight and who will look to improve the game year on year.

Sadly, this person probably doesn't exist.

There is no one i can think of currently involved in RL who i think would make a good replacement for RR.

Edit: I know he is kind of connected to RL, or has been in the past, but I wonder if Mark Evans (currently CEO or Fiji Drua - I think) name will get a mention. I'd heard he went for the role prior to RR being announced, but was never spoken to (good old RFL).

Edited by EastLondonMike
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Regardless of Rimmer's success or not, he was objectively poor at both Huddersfield and Sheffield. As Wood was at Halifax. That questions how both got the job in the first place.

Rimmer was wooden and a poor communicator. His interview regarding academy licensing on Sky was excruciating and then followed a u turn and prolonged absence from any public appearance. I recall another excruciating interview with Dave Woods in 2018 post New Zealand series.

That being said, covid was a potentially sport crippling event and he should be credited for avoiding catastrophe in that period.

As for a successor, with Moorhouse gone too (who I had as a frontrunner), then Jon Dutton or Simon Johnson look favourites.

Dutton oversaw an average 2016 Four Nations but has done good things with the World Cup. Johnson is an excellent communicator but I know little else about him.

I'm not as bothered about whether the appointment is external. Roger Draper and Robert Elstone were hardly roaring successes.

It's a tough job for whoever does get it. I'd like to see more clear and targeted aims, rather than a scattergun approach. For example, to halt sliding Challenge Cup Final attendances would be one and committing to at least two home England internationals ever year, one in the heartlands and one outside. These are achievable in my view, far more so than delusions of huge growth for the sport.

Edited by Chris22
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Any future RFL CEO needs to have a mandate that gives him some real power. I find it hard to judge any recent RL administrators based on the fact that SL clubs seem to pull all the important strings. 

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5 hours ago, RayCee said:

Any future RFL CEO needs to have a mandate that gives him some real power. I find it hard to judge any recent RL administrators based on the fact that SL clubs seem to pull all the important strings. 

I suspect this function has been contracted out to RL Commercial - and by extension - IMG.

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9 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

I do think Rimmer was probably quite a capable administrator, I've heard plenty of people whose opinions I trust say so. But he's not the leader the game needed, and possibly never would be.

I do however think we need someone from outside the game. Someone with desire to improve and progress, but also enough recent experience to not pose too much of a risk. 
Someone with the appetite for a fight and who will look to improve the game year on year.

Sadly, this person probably doesn't exist.

There is no one i can think of currently involved in RL who i think would make a good replacement for RR.

Edit: I know he is kind of connected to RL, or has been in the past, but I wonder if Mark Evans (currently CEO or Fiji Drua - I think) name will get a mention. I'd heard he went for the role prior to RR being announced, but was never spoken to (good old RFL).

Mark Evans would've been a good call. An unlikely appointment as don't think his face would fit in the RFL. He's only just taken that Fiji job.

Probably a bit of a left field call but what about Mick Hogan? 

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53 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I suspect this function has been contracted out to RL Commercial - and by extension - IMG.

It would be good to understand the responsibilities of each body in the new world. 

Will there still be any SLE staff,  or will they sit in the RFL,  or will it all sit under RL Commercial? 

The governing body has a lot more to do than drive commercial income,  but in reality it is possible to badge everything as commercial activity. 

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It would be good to understand the responsibilities of each body in the new world. 

Will there still be any SLE staff,  or will they sit in the RFL,  or will it all sit under RL Commercial? 

The governing body has a lot more to do than drive commercial income,  but in reality it is possible to badge everything as commercial activity. 

I agree. As I put in the IMG thread this morning, RL Commercial, IMG's role in it, and the place given to it by Rimmer in his leaving remarks, does remind me of Liberty Media and F1. Perhaps that is a model to take heed from?

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agree. As I put in the IMG thread this morning, RL Commercial, IMG's role in it, and the place given to it by Rimmer in his leaving remarks, does remind me of Liberty Media and F1. Perhaps that is a model to take heed from?

You'd hope the break down will fall (in broad terms as): RFL is for the community game, officiating, competition structure, administration, development, youth, women's; RL Commercial is for income opportunities across all aspects of the game; Super League is for the (male) professional game.

That does leave the same obvious gap that we always seem to have - who are the small number of semi professional clubs with professional aspirations meant to align with - but a simple and popular restructure of the league will surely sort that out.

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IMG will hopefully have a bit more clout in negotiating with the Aussies and pulling together some form of commercially lucrative international series which will entice them back into the fold.

I still think we should be looking at reintroducing the Tr-Nations, but to mix it up a bit include Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand, Australia, France and as a wild card, Queensland and NSW state of Origin teams.

The format and venue worked, it more or less always sold out, had good viewing figures ........and then was scrapped !!

Is 'Big Nigel' still the international representative for the UK?  

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26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You'd hope the break down will fall (in broad terms as): RFL is for the community game, officiating, competition structure, administration, development, youth, women's; RL Commercial is for income opportunities across all aspects of the game; Super League is for the (male) professional game.

That does leave the same obvious gap that we always seem to have - who are the small number of semi professional clubs with professional aspirations meant to align with - but a simple and popular restructure of the league will surely sort that out.

We then have the challenge of the international game fitting into that structure. 

I do wonder whether the RFL will in effect become an operational area,  delivering and managing some of the things you suggest.  

One exec board would be preferable,  and it feels like that would need to be RLCom which has SL and RFL reps on it. 

Edited by Dave T
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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

We then have the challenge of the international game fitting into that structure.

That's pretty straightforward in that it should fall, like every other sport, to the national governing body, which is the RFL.

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7 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

IMG will hopefully have a bit more clout in negotiating with the Aussies and pulling together some form of commercially lucrative international series which will entice them back into the fold.

I still think we should be looking at reintroducing the Tr-Nations, but to mix it up a bit include Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand, Australia, France and as a wild card, Queensland and NSW state of Origin teams.

The format and venue worked, it more or less always sold out, had good viewing figures ........and then was scrapped !!

Is 'Big Nigel' still the international representative for the UK?  

Pretty sure Nigel has stepped away from the RLIF.

Are changes to internationals under IMGs remit - I would be surprised if it was, but haven't been following in close detail. 

Surprised to hear yesterday that Ralph thought his handling of the Bradford saga was "impeccable"...!

Less surprised to see very few defences of his record. I'm not one jumping for joy, I only hope it's a step in the right direction. 

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's pretty straightforward in that it should fall, like every other sport, to the national governing body, which is the RFL.

It should,  yes,  but as we've seen in Oz,  the NRL have a lot of power in this area,  we need to be careful how this is managed. We have also seen IMG talk about the international game (I think,  unless it's just us here). 

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Agree with all the comments that we need clarity of what the RFL and it's CEO will actually do, now that much executive function has been moved to RL Commercial. And indeed how decision making will happen in the latter.

If all this isn't transparently laid out, when the griping starts, which it inevitably will, everything will get infected by it. I'm up for radical change, but let the sport's new leaders stand clearly accountable for it. 

For what it's worth on Rimmer, as I've said in other threads, he had no real vision or charisma to drive the game forward, but when Covid hit his behind-the-scenes administrator efforts meant that RL was early in the queue for support, and that was crucial when things looked so uncertain. So I thank him for that, and by encouraging the clubs to accept the IMG relationship, he at least seems to accept that a new way of doing things is needed, and it won't include him, which takes a level humility. 

I guess he'll end up at Bradford? 

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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It should,  yes,  but as we've seen in Oz,  the NRL have a lot of power in this area,  we need to be careful how this is managed. We have also seen IMG talk about the international game (I think,  unless it's just us here). 

That's fine though because IMG are here to make money for the whole game so you would expect them to be involved.

I don't really care how the aussies set up their side of things.

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That's fine though because IMG are here to make money for the whole game so you would expect them to be involved.

I don't really care how the aussies set up their side of things.

My point being we should do everything to avoid the 'complicated'  setup the Aussie have,  I agree with you.  

But it is really important that these things are ironed out up front,  as a lot here will depend where the power sits. 

I've worked for JV's for a large part of my career and its always been an interesting dynamic,  for much of the time the JV was a minor partner of the major parent company,  and in effect tapped into that 'product'  -  in my caee banking infrastructure,  to drive value for the JV.  I think this is how this one should work as a Commercial arm,  SLE and RFL should run their parts of the game,  with the RLCom tapping into this and extracting the value. 

A lot of the talk at the moment is that RLCom would in effect run the game,  a little like some of the new setups we have seen around P. E. 

As I say,  it'll be interesting to watch and see what comes out in the wash.  

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14 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Agree with all the comments that we need clarity of what the RFL and it's CEO will actually do, now that much executive function has been moved to RL Commercial. And indeed how decision making will happen in the latter.

This is the important bit. Will RLCom be little more than an advisory board? 

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10 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Regardless of Rimmer's success or not, he was objectively poor at both Huddersfield and Sheffield. As Wood was at Halifax. That questions how both got the job in the first place.

Rimmer was wooden and a poor communicator. His interview regarding academy licensing on Sky was excruciating and then followed a u turn and prolonged absence from any public appearance. I recall another excruciating interview with Dave Woods in 2018 post New Zealand series.

That being said, covid was a potentially sport crippling event and he should be credited for avoiding catastrophe in that period.

As for a successor, with Moorhouse gone too (who I had as a frontrunner), then Jon Dutton or Simon Johnson look favourites.

Dutton oversaw an average 2016 Four Nations but has done good things with the World Cup. Johnson is an excellent communicator but I know little else about him.

I'm not as bothered about whether the appointment is external. Roger Draper and Robert Elstone were hardly roaring successes.

It's a tough job for whoever does get it. I'd like to see more clear and targeted aims, rather than a scattergun approach. For example, to halt sliding Challenge Cup Final attendances would be one and committing to at least two home England internationals ever year, one in the heartlands and one outside. These are achievable in my view, far more so than delusions of huge growth for the sport.

Regarding Simon Johnson, i had him as my guest for the HGSA a few weeks ago and he was very keen to be involved in progressing the sport forward, he spoke very passionately about how the game needs to change, and how the fans can help by being more positive and promoting the game as a vibrant, entertaining sport for all to enjoy rather than creating this dark, depressing image of it.

I also had Jon Dutton as my guest when the World Cup was originally announced and again his passion and enthusiasm knew no bounds, not just for the WC but the sport as a whole.

Having been in the company of both Mr Dutton and Mr Johnson i would be more than happy for either of these, who are both clearly passionate, knowledgeable and know where the game is failing to be our 'leader'.

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