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7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Very wealthy people investing their own money in sport only do it for one of two reasons. 

Number one is to become part of the elite.  This is the case in F1 and America's Cup racing which is essentially the domain of the wealthy class and if you want to be in that club you spend big money.  Rugby League ain't going to be there.

Number two is to buy a team/franchise in a sport, invest in the team, win trophies and bask in the glory.  Plenty of Football and Rugby Union owners have attempted the latter.

What number two always leads to is massive inflation in player wages which spirals beyond the levels sustainable by the club/sport to stand alone.  This means the wealthy investors are not a luxury but a necessity for continued survival. 

I really don't want us in the second camp.

I have been as critical as anyone of Derek Beaumont and the way he conducts business publically as anyone but a local man, who has done well, and is prepared to invest sensible amounts of his fortune into a club is perfect.

Very wealthy people bringing rampant inflation to the sport and then leaving is not a model for success.

Sports investment is often a vanity project.  I feel we under-index on investors is that we under perform in places of the establishment/elite.  It follows that we do ok on working class areas that we have a less affluent fan base who can then invest. 

Whilst there are tactical things we can do to drive investment (franchise buy ins etc),  I think the long game has to be to widen our net and get into colleges,  universities and follow the money. 

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3 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Anyone who cannot see the negative impact of the cap in RL is in denial. 

Entry to top level UK RL is peanuts to the seriously wealthy so why cant we attract them? Many RL 'Fans' need a long look in the mirror before they answer that because we pride ourselves in driving wealth out of the sport primarily driven by jealousy - our attitude to wealth and the dated 'working' class attitudes around it are why we are where we are as a sport.

Look at the poop given to Koukash, look at poop thrown at Hughes etc etc and these arent in the same league as Ratcliffe. RL fans have a huge streak of jealousy in far too many of them - has anyone seen similar attacks on RU club owners by fans?

Lets play a scenario out - RL hook Koukash, we have no cap so he spends to bring success for the club and him - his motivation to spend is the success. As he goes from club to club he finds his peers to be folks who are doing OK for themselves via SME's or have sold a business and are sitting on cash or have had a decent job and draw a wage from the club they run or something of a mix between all. He starts to invite his business peers to games, makes them aware of opportunities - lets not forget RL is peanuts in this world - and the craic they could have if they owned a few clubs. RL is now networking in the right circles.

Lets play another scenario TW come in cashed up and wanting to expand the sport professionally into a new continent - so what do we do - give them 3 pointless years in lower leagues. What if they had gone straight into SL cashed up having not wasted £10m getting there, and 3 years of top flight RL before covid!! Would year 2 have seen another major Canadian city wanting a slice, Y3 New York? etc

We are a sport of shopkeepers, a good year is making a few bob and a bad one is cutting your clothe for the following one - this is not how Wealth works.

 

 

These investors could come in spend on quality players,  invest in academies and infrastructure,  spend on transfer fees,  spend on coaching -  there is a lot that money can do in the game.  The likes of Koukash wanted shortcuts and to only spend on players,  but doesn't even really know what a good player is. 

The cap (and the level it is set)  may have its challenges,  but it isn't a blocker to investors getting involved.  And if they claim it is,  its a huge red flag tbh. 

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The cap should absolutely go up.  At least to the point of the inception of Super League (adjusted for inflation) as this will allow successful and well managed clubs to continue to invest. 

But the idea of someone worth £28 billion riding in on a white steed to save the sport is pie in the sky stuff and has no grounding in the real world.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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The cap should definitely be increased and have been increased over the years, I don’t think that’s controversial and I reckon many would agree. I don’t necessarily think we should abolish it. Most sports have some kind of financial cap/limit in place and I have never seen any evidence that there being a salary cap within UK Rugby League puts anybody off of investing in one of our clubs. 

We don’t have the global standing of football so we’re extremely unlikely to get investment from American’s, Middle Eastern or Asian born and based investors. 

I have wondered why we’ve never seen much more investment from Antipodeans. The barrier for entry is far lower than the NRL and having seen the level of investment required just to get the Dolphins in the competition, a fraction of that money would go a decent way within the game here. I’ve always imagined it’s the logistics and lifestyle choices that play some part in this. 

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4 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Look at the way we swapped Toronto for a Wigan Suburb.  Look how certain people in the game in this country want to keep it a M62 corridor game. Look at the comments in the past about London saying they have had e amount of years to get in right, yet ignore the low crowds and lack of Junior development at places like Salford, and how long have Salford been playing our game? How long have the likes of Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton for example been playing our game and where are they playing there games nowadays on their own grounds?

Look at the Castleford and Wakefield grounds. Admittedly Wakey are doing something about there ground after years of neglect. Would you have taken a billionaire and potential game sponsor to grounds like theirs?

Careful there, soon @Dave Twill be telling you that you're not really an RL fan if you talk about such realities.

4 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Very wealthy people investing their own money in sport only do it for one of two reasons. 

Number one is to become part of the elite.  This is the case in F1 and America's Cup racing which is essentially the domain of the wealthy class and if you want to be in that club you spend big money.  Rugby League ain't going to be there.

Number two is to buy a team/franchise in a sport, invest in the team, win trophies and bask in the glory.  Plenty of Football and Rugby Union owners have attempted the latter.

You forget number three, to make money, which is what both major and minor league franchises do in North America.

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1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

Careful there, soon @Dave Twill be telling you that you're not really an RL fan if you talk about such realities.

You forget number three, to make money, which is what both major and minor league franchises do in North America.

There are plenty of people on here who have nothing positive to say about RL.  I'm not sure why they waste time on an RL forum,  but that's their/your prerogative.  Strange hobby if you ask me

 

This is not North America. 

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6 hours ago, Dave T said:

Such derogatory terms for RL shouldn't be accepted on an RL board.  Anyone who describes RL like that is not an RL fan. There are other forms of entertainment you should go and watch. 

Wow. You said that someone who refers to RL in a derogatory term that you, alone, has determined, shouldn't be accepted. 

Then what... Banned? 

Check out how Fascism starts. 

Edited by Number 16
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1 minute ago, Number 16 said:

Wow. You said that someone who refers to RL in a derogatory term that you, alone, has determined, shouldn't be accepted. 

The what... Banned? 

Check out how Fascism starts. 

Touch melodramatic,  we can't even say flat c*ppers on here. 

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6 hours ago, Dave T said:

These investors could come in spend on quality players,  invest in academies and infrastructure,  spend on transfer fees,  spend on coaching -  there is a lot that money can do in the game.  The likes of Koukash wanted shortcuts and to only spend on players,  but doesn't even really know what a good player is. 

The cap (and the level it is set)  may have its challenges,  but it isn't a blocker to investors getting involved.  And if they claim it is,  its a huge red flag tbh. 

If you are sat on Billions and fancy a holiday do you go to Beirut because with investment it may be a great place again in 10 years 

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13 hours ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

It was the last outpost of Oldham before heading down to Manchester. Failsworth was absolutely part of Oldham!

Not in 1964 iirc. Most of the buses from Manchester  terminated there, apart from the no. 10.  

No matter, though, since there will be no rich benefactor for Oldham, it seems, unless someone can persuade Sir Norman Stoller to get involved..or maybe the collective alumni of the Oldham Theatre Workshop.

Edited by JohnM

"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."

JohnM - 17/01/2023

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6 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

If you are sat on Billions and fancy a holiday do you go to Beirut because with investment it may be a great place again in 10 years 

We have people who invest and generally for the same reasons as they invest in RU and other similar smaller sports.  And it isn't as a proper financial investment. 

The investments are vanity projects,  usually because you are a fan.  We need to make more people RL fans,  including rich people,  and that will eventually translate into investment.  Its the reason that the likes of Wire,  Saints,  Wigan,  Leeds and your club Leigh have the rich people involved that they do. It's the same in RU. 

Football is different,  and that is because it is a worldwide phenomenon. 

Sports are not good financial investments in the main,  they are risky and can be money pits. There are always other reasons at lay when somebody invests in a club. Usually that they are a fan.  In football it is for the worldwide presence,  awareness and dodgy things like sport washing. 

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

There are plenty of people on here who have nothing positive to say about RL.  I'm not sure why they waste time on an RL forum,  but that's their/your prerogative.  Strange hobby if you ask me

 

This is not North America. 

The best chance we ever had of breaking into the most lucrative sports market in the world and we blew if for a Wigan suburb

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16 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes of course Dr Koukash, I thought Paul Caddick was a local Leeds lad, and didn't Mr Hetherington progress from being an employee of the club?. As for Andy Mazey he is a Leigh lad who I know quite well, was once a director at Leigh along with his dad then they didn't see eye to eye with Mr Beaumont and left.

Pretty sure Caddick is a Knottingley lad and a life long Cas fan.

Didn't he buy in at Headingley shortly after the Yorkshire CCC Durkar debacle?

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13 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

The best chance we ever had of breaking into the most lucrative sports market in the world and we blew if for a Wigan suburb

That's a romanticised rewriting of history that ignores many plot points. 

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Are there alternative funding models available for our clubs beyond the sugar daddy route?

Particularly those that have fanbases of a certain size where people might be prepared to take out a membership rather than just a season ticket in exchange for some access to AGMs or other niceties.

The Green Bay Packers are often touted as an example of a situation where a sports team can punch above its weight in an example near to the above*

Closer to home, I found Lancashire CCC (hope they aren’t a bad example) offered more than just a match day experience in their various levels of membership.

I know fans can overreach sometimes in the pursuit of glory often overextending sustainability for a sports club, but I still like this option.

*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers,_Inc.

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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16 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Rugby League does have wealthy people investing in our sport.  By the standards of the man on the street, the owners/chairmen of several Rugby League clubs are very wealthy. 

But these things are relative.  I just don't think anyone worth £28 billion is going to think of Rugby League as their plaything when they can have F1, Football, America's Cup and all that goes with that.  We don't park our yachts at Wigan Peer to watch the Wigan Saints derby.

Disagree, if RL was the passion of any billionaires they would have it as their 'plaything' and they would still have enough to invest in putting their names high on the billboards of the other more popular global sports,  but it all comes down to the word 'passion', would you expect if someone like McManus, Lenhigan even Beaumont managed to get themselves into the Billion bracket they would abandon their 'passion' in pursuit of other 'playthings'.

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6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Disagree, if RL was the passion of any billionaires they would have it as their 'plaything' and they would still have enough to invest in putting their names high on the billboards of the other more popular global sports,  but it all comes down to the word 'passion', would you expect if someone like McManus, Lenhigan even Beaumont managed to get themselves into the Billion bracket they would abandon their 'passion' in pursuit of other 'playthings'.

An impossible question to answer.  Although we can look at the evidence we have and come to some conclusions.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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15 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Look at the way we swapped Toronto for a Wigan Suburb.  Look how certain people in the game in this country want to keep it a M62 corridor game. Look at the comments in the past about London saying they have had e amount of years to get in right, yet ignore the low crowds and lack of Junior development at places like Salford, and how long have Salford been playing our game? How long have the likes of Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton for example been playing our game and where are they playing there games nowadays on their own grounds?

Look at the Castleford and Wakefield grounds. Admittedly Wakey are doing something about there ground after years of neglect. Would you have taken a billionaire and potential game sponsor to grounds like theirs?

Look at how many outposts away from the heartlands have sprang up and quickly fallen back down again into oblivion, and I hope I am wrong but in tge not to distant future I think there will be another addition to that list, whilst those little towns keep on going some of over 100 years standing, that should not be criticised it should be applauded.

It really gets on my mammary glands when people such as yourself decry what we have got, but do not have the influence, knowledge or wherewithal to do anything but moan about it, if you don't like it go do something else, and leave us who enjoy to carry on.

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1 hour ago, David Shepherd said:

Pretty sure Caddick is a Knottingley lad and a life long Cas fan.

Didn't he buy in at Headingley shortly after the Yorkshire CCC Durkar debacle?

Before Caddick became involved with Leeds Rhinos he apparently - I say apparently as some Cas supporters have stated this is correct but I have no proof - put in an offer to take sole control of Cas but the Board of Directors at Cas turned him down.

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