RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[N2022]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I get that, and I'm 100% supportive of them not doing flash sales. That is what people have complained about, not decent packages being on sale from launch that are open to everyone. 

Even now, I agree we shouldn't be slashing prices, weve made our bed and have to see it through. 

How many are they anticipating for tonight - rugby town, decent clash, great weather for it. Surely this one should be a strong turnout if the tournament's on track to be a ticketing success. 

[JonM]

20 hours ago, Leonard said:

No way looks a quarter full. But I thought the 6,300 at Kingston Park was overstated. I am sure the tickets went, but maybe there are some ticket holders who didn't go.

But the atmosphere came across well.

FWIW, I was at Newcastle and guesstimated 6000 ish and was at Doncaster yesterday and guesstimated 4000, so I don't think the attendances were all that far out.

Yesterday's game was exactly what you would have hoped for in some senses - loads of kids there, plenty of Greek supporters, small number of French supporters, reasonable numbers of Donny & Sheffield Eagles jerseys on display. Enjoyable game, cracking stadium, good atmosphere (the band & drum were excellent). Just needed a few thousand more people watching.

Can't fault Doncaster council by the way - the town centre is plastered with RLWC signage, the mayor was at the game and so on. I hope they don't feel they were sold a pup in bidding for these games.

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, N2022 said:

How many are they anticipating for tonight - rugby town, decent clash, great weather for it. Surely this one should be a strong turnout if the tournament's on track to be a ticketing success. 

I'd be disappointed with below 10k, really should be 12k plus I would have thought... 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Dave T

[N2022]

4 minutes ago, JonM said:

FWIW, I was at Newcastle and guesstimated 6000 ish and was at Doncaster yesterday and guesstimated 4000, so I don't think the attendances were all that far out.

Yesterday's game was exactly what you would have hoped for in some senses - loads of kids there, plenty of Greek supporters, small number of French supporters, reasonable numbers of Donny & Sheffield Eagles jerseys on display. Enjoyable game, cracking stadium, good atmosphere (the band & drum were excellent). Just needed a few thousand more people watching.

Can't fault Doncaster council by the way - the town centre is plastered with RLWC signage, the mayor was at the game and so on. I hope they don't feel they were sold a pup in bidding for these games.

The other problem is that while those watching on TV can see the fullish stand, those sat in it are looking at three empty sides of a ground, so even if there's noise it's visually less memorable.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Yeah, the sales are poor. There are many reasons outside of control, but the strategy since the delay seems to be an wrong.

If the principle idea is to not discount tickets in order to protect early buyers (something I have no issue with and is a fundamentally good idea), then work around that. Package deals across multiple games or people is not the same as individually booked tickets, and these could even be applied to current ticket holders with proof of purchase so they can get more tickets for cheap based on what they've already spent. Win-win.

Seems we're just resigned to what we have. If there were no strategies to get large numbers in, why hold them at huge grounds?!

[GeordieSaint]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think they have become a little obsessed with the principle of not discounting. It displays a lack of flexibility and empathy. 

For example, the rules changed when the tournament was delayed, they could easily have relaunched the early bird discounts at that point (so still not bettering anything from previous early birds) and the decision to have multi-buy discounts as part of early bird only, and no family packages at all is just bizarre. To not bring any kind of early bird scheme back during the 12m delay period is odd. I think the decision not to use flash sales with a month to go is a welcome one.

They have plenty of sympathy from me around the cost of living crisis, but some of the fundamental decisions are just not good decisions in any environment.

There is a big difference between discounting and turning blocks into lower price brackets. You can keep the integrity of the early booking system with the latter by keeping your pricing structure but selling certain blocks at the lower end of that structure. Saints for the next Tonga game is a great example - way too many Cat A sections in comparison to Cat D seating areas. Reduce the former and increase the latter is obvious without screwing over early buyers. Yes, there might be a logistic faff shifting a few people but it won’t be that extensive. 

[Coastal_Geordie]

I’ve tickets for Tonga v Cook Islands at the Riverside.  When you are talking about deprived areas Middlesbrough is a particular example, Teesside is not an area flush with spare cash and the tickets for this game are not at the cheaper end for this tournament.  I paid £44 for an adult and a child ticket including booking fee.

I get the thinking behind that because Tonga should be a draw to Rugby League fans.  I don’t know how many of those are on Teeside though.

The only way I could see you filling the 34k riverside is giving tickets to schools.  Even then it may be challenging, that is a massive amount of people.  I fear attendance will be some way below 10k.

[GeordieSaint]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'd be disappointed with below 10k, really should be 12k plus I would have thought... 

I would be very surprised if your aspirations are met tonight Dave. I would be very surprised if there were more than 7k. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I would be very surprised if your aspirations are met tonight Dave. I would be very surprised if there were more than 7k. 

Yeah it's a bit of a test tonight. This game should be attracting substantially more than Scotland v Italy at Newcastle 

[GeordieSaint]

Just now, Dave T said:

Yeah it's a bit of a test tonight. This game should be attracting substantially more than Scotland v Italy at Newcastle 

Absolutely - it’s one of those 2-3 games that I’d really want to see. Can’t due to distance otherwise I would have gone despite the cost.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I would be very surprised if your aspirations are met tonight Dave. I would be very surprised if there were more than 7k. 

That would be a shocking crowd for a fixture like this.

[Szymala]

15 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I would be very surprised if your aspirations are met tonight Dave. I would be very surprised if there were more than 7k. 

Really ? To see Kristian Wool and Konrad and maybe Hopoate in Tonga colours ? 

[Archie Gordon]

16 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

There is a big difference between discounting and turning blocks into lower price brackets. You can keep the integrity of the early booking system with the latter by keeping your pricing structure but selling certain blocks at the lower end of that structure. Saints for the next Tonga game is a great example - way too many Cat A sections in comparison to Cat D seating areas. Reduce the former and increase the latter is obvious without screwing over early buyers. Yes, there might be a logistic faff shifting a few people but it won’t be that extensive. 

And this is exactly what I thought and hoped would happen when they took the ticket sales site down for an upgrade a month or so ago. At that stage no-one had a specific seat.

[GeordieSaint]

4 minutes ago, Szymala said:

Really ? To see Kristian Wool and Konrad and maybe Hopoate in Tonga colours ? 

No Saints players are in the Tongan team I think… 

[The Lad]

21 hours ago, Londonbornirishbred said:

I don't get it? Yes, we wish we could fill every stadium for every game, but the reality is that in the 9 years since the UK last hosted the World Cup, you've had no end of economic crisis to deal with, from the initial hit of the Leave vote, through Covid and now the cost of living crisis and yet Fans (and not just RL fans, but Sports Fans) are giving the game great attention. England v Samoa, live on FTA TV nearly filled Sy James's Park. That's fantastic stuff.
 

As fans, UK supporters spend far too much time worrying about what's wrong with "the game" rather than enjoying what they have. Last season, 5,500 turned up to watch the Sydney Roosters play the Titans. This was by far the lowest gate for a game at MacKay and a shocking turnout, but did NRL fans begin wrist slitting or teeth gnashing? Nope. But UK RL Fans are obsessed with putting the game down, so UK fans will concentrate on crowds at Salford and Huddersfield rather than celebrate both teams doing really well in 2022.

I'm enjoying this World Cup and personally wouldn't be bothered if they were playing in empty stadiums. As it is, they're playing to crowds who've already delivered more ticket Revenue than any other...and Greece have a second try...what more do you want!

Are you serious?

Looking at the World Cup of our sport critically is not "putting the game down" it's wanting it to be better. Lets be honest nobody watched Ireland vs Jamaica at the ground, the stands where almost empty and the standing terraces were empty. The commentators even acknowledged the poor attendances at the France vs Greece game. It doesn't matter if the top 3 teams can nearly fill stadiums, the game looks bad if its blue ribbon event is played in front of next to no one.

This is all because of bad planning, games like Ireland vs Jamaica should not be played at Headingley. Rugby league needs to understand where it is and that a small ground full looks better than a large ground 1/3 full.   

As far as the League attendances go, it's all well and good saying Salford and Huddersfield are doing well with small crowds but how long do you think they will be able to keep up that good form for with less revenue from gates?. 

[RL Tragic]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

For 2023, the total number is 458k, and that doesn't double count for the two large double headers.  The England v Samoa game is acknowledged as the biggest standalone opener, but was just a couple of thousand lower than the double header. 

Some of your points are fair regarding wait and see, but judgement can certainly be made on what has happened so far, which is very much a mixed bag. 

Personally, I'd have had no issues with the tournament looking the same as 2013, but with far higher revenues, but it is currently looking worse, and when people state their aims and miss them by a mile, then questions should be asked. 

It would be easy to blame fans, and blame the likes of me for being negative, but nobody was doing this in 2013. 

I am hopeful that this turns round, two decent nights today and tomorrow and we bring back the feelgood factor leading into another hopefully great England win on Saturday. And I think when the women and wheelchair tournaments start we have a great opportunity to create a further buzz around the event, so I am certainly not despondent, but I am fed up of what has been a fair few months of gaslighting and spin tbh, and the CEO of the tournament standing on stage and saying he's not bothering entertaining the fans because they will pay players instead. 

But, it is early days, so point taken, fingers crossed it's onwards and upwards. 

Totally with you on this from the WC CEO perspective. His whole attitude bothers me , I run a business it’s my responsibility to ensure pricing of my product is right and that all aspects of my process are correct , available and in budget  . If it’s not the S?!t is on me I’m ultimately responsible for the screw ups and I lose my own money . If it’s not your own business then you should be for the high jump . Power going pop at st James , fair enough act of god . But No singers for the anthems ( See John Duttons comments on twitter , they are reviewing the entertainment) I.E. they have ballsed up . The seriously worrying crowds, Ticketing issues . To many games in small geographical areas this  . Like I say things out of there control fair enough but there have been some unforgivable clangers that I’m sure most people on here could have pointed out to them before they launched it . I thought 2013 was phenomenal, using that as a yardstick, unless there is an almighty upswing in the tournament then somebody needs there head on the block at the end of this and not be allowed to ###### off with a chunk of the games scarce revenue to another corporate job with this as a plus point on there CV . Sorry to rant but I love this game and I’m tired of us having to endure having our great game made to look like a joke by poorly executed but well remunerated leadership.

[saintspete83]

Plenty of school kids thin the CAT A seats. Parents must be well off at that school ha ha. I'm guessing there has been some school visits in recent days. I have no complaints with that. 

[N2022]

1 minute ago, The Lad said:

Are you serious?

Looking at the World Cup of our sport critically is not "putting the game down" it's wanting it to be better. Lets be honest nobody watched Ireland vs Jamaica at the ground, the stands where almost empty and the standing terraces were empty. The commentators even acknowledged the poor attendances at the France vs Greece game. It doesn't matter if the top 3 teams can nearly fill stadiums, the game looks bad if its blue ribbon event is played in front of next to no one.

This is all because of bad planning, games like Ireland vs Jamaica should not be played at Headingley. Rugby league needs to understand where it is and that a small ground full looks better than a large ground 1/3 full.   

As far as the League attendances go, it's all well and good saying Salford and Huddersfield are doing well with small crowds but how long do you think they will be able to keep up that good form for with less revenue from gates?. 

I agree that a critical / reflective view is not negative but aspirational. I agree Headingley was probably a bit ambitious for Jamaica v Ireland. In fairness, I think it's hard for them to gauge the reaction / uptake when scheduling fixtures. They are hoping regular fans will buy in to unusual fixtures, but maybe the appeal of these games between lower-ranked nations isn't there if you've got the big teams playing nearby over a few weeks. Realistically they are reliant on also drawing some non-rugby-league types and might have thought that Jamaica and Ireland would have appealed to fans with family connections to one of the teams (maybe?) - these are sizeable communities in Leeds but often more attached to other sports. More likely, that approach would have merited taking France v Greece south, maybe London fringes and aiming to draw on the expat and diaspora communities. Other thing with smaller grounds is that the facilities are often underdeveloped, so it won't wow! first time spectators on a comfort level. 

[OriginalMrC]

Pretty sure Ireland vs Jamaica wasn't originally it was moved due to rescheduling.

Anyway looks to be a big crowd in St Helens tonight and there's a very good atmosphere 

[RL Tragic]

10 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Pretty sure Ireland vs Jamaica wasn't originally it was moved due to rescheduling.

Anyway looks to be a big crowd in St Helens tonight and there's a very good atmosphere 

That is brilliant news

[Ragingbull]

59 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

Totally with you on this from the WC CEO perspective. His whole attitude bothers me , I run a business it’s my responsibility to ensure pricing of my product is right and that all aspects of my process are correct , available and in budget  . If it’s not the S?!t is on me I’m ultimately responsible for the screw ups and I lose my own money . If it’s not your own business then you should be for the high jump . Power going pop at st James , fair enough act of god . But No singers for the anthems ( See John Duttons comments on twitter , they are reviewing the entertainment) I.E. they have ballsed up . The seriously worrying crowds, Ticketing issues . To many games in small geographical areas this  . Like I say things out of there control fair enough but there have been some unforgivable clangers that I’m sure most people on here could have pointed out to them before they launched it . I thought 2013 was phenomenal, using that as a yardstick, unless there is an almighty upswing in the tournament then somebody needs there head on the block at the end of this and not be allowed to ###### off with a chunk of the games scarce revenue to another corporate job with this as a plus point on there CV . Sorry to rant but I love this game and I’m tired of us having to endure having our great game made to look like a joke by poorly executed but well remunerated leadership.

Most sensible post I've read on here in a long time.  Absolutely nailed it with every point.  Well played Sir 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, RL Tragic said:

Totally with you on this from the WC CEO perspective. His whole attitude bothers me , I run a business it’s my responsibility to ensure pricing of my product is right and that all aspects of my process are correct , available and in budget  . If it’s not the S?!t is on me I’m ultimately responsible for the screw ups and I lose my own money . If it’s not your own business then you should be for the high jump . Power going pop at st James , fair enough act of god . But No singers for the anthems ( See John Duttons comments on twitter , they are reviewing the entertainment) I.E. they have ballsed up . The seriously worrying crowds, Ticketing issues . To many games in small geographical areas this  . Like I say things out of there control fair enough but there have been some unforgivable clangers that I’m sure most people on here could have pointed out to them before they launched it . I thought 2013 was phenomenal, using that as a yardstick, unless there is an almighty upswing in the tournament then somebody needs there head on the block at the end of this and not be allowed to ###### off with a chunk of the games scarce revenue to another corporate job with this as a plus point on there CV . Sorry to rant but I love this game and I’m tired of us having to endure having our great game made to look like a joke by poorly executed but well remunerated leadership.

Apart from the England game it has been disappointing so far for me 

Hopefully crowds pick up but with some of the ridiculous pricing and poor geographical spread I doubt it

[Eddie]

11 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Apart from the England game it has been disappointing so far for me 

Hopefully crowds pick up but with some of the ridiculous pricing and poor geographical spread I doubt it

Kenilworth Road would have been decent, I’d have come down and met you for a pint. 

[GeordieSaint]

10,409 at Saints this evening. 

Happy to have been proven wrong. 

[nadera78]

47 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Kenilworth Road would have been decent, I’d have come down and met you for a pint. 

Hahaha! Kenilworth Rd! You're funny!