Powell Gone

[Damien]

Justin Holbook has joined the coaching staff of the Roosters so that's him out.

[Lowdesert]

3 hours ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Quite scathing, the section on how people were treated doesn't show Powell in a good light.

It doesn’t show the players he brought in, in a good light either.  
“I think last year getting rid of so many players, I don’t think we brought the right ones in.“

[Saint Toppy]

37 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

It doesn’t show the players he brought in, in a good light either.  
“I think last year getting rid of so many players, I don’t think we brought the right ones in.“

That shows people like Fitzpatrick in an even worse light given how they've also said he's the one who is in change of scouting out the available players. To me it shows that he doesn't do the due diligence checks on those players or have that conversation with the coach as to how they would fit in with the clubs culture, the playing group or how they fit with the way the coach wants the team to play.

Every club signs 'dud' players from time to time who for whatever reason just dont work out but Wire seem to sign more than their fair share and they have a pretty big player turnover year after year. That suggests there's something seriously wrong at the club somewhere. Powell said there was a cultural problem, maybe that problem extends beyond just the playing group and the real change needs to happen further up the food chain ?

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

That shows people like Fitzpatrick in an even worse light given how they've also said he's the one who is in change of scouting out the available players. To me it shows that he doesn't do the due diligence checks on those players or have that conversation with the coach as to how they would fit in with the clubs culture, the playing group or how they fit with the way the coach wants the team to play.

Every club signs 'dud' players from time to time who for whatever reason just dont work out but Wire seem to sign more than their fair share and they have a pretty big player turnover year after year. That suggests there's something seriously wrong at the club somewhere. Powell said there was a cultural problem, maybe that problem extends beyond just the playing group and the real change needs to happen further up the food chain ?

Certainly won’t encourage those newcomers!

[Saint Toppy]

If the now being reported rumours of Sam Burgess to Wire are true then the Wire senior management really are clueless, incompetent half-wits.

Its obvious there's a serious cultural problem at the clubs so if their idea to solve it is to appoint a coach with a history of domestic abuse, drug use, drug driving and a long list of NRL rule breaches then quite frankly the club deserves to end up in free fall and be at the bottom of the league.

If they appoint Burgess then they'll be a laughing stock !!!

[ChristianB]

Holbrook aside (and he's out of the equation anyway), I really hope Warrington avoid dipping in to the merry-go-round of established Super League coaches.

Personally, I'd love to see Lee Briers brought home to a big welcome mat and unreserved apology. For the blood, sweat and tears he gave for the club he deserves nothing less.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

That shows people like Fitzpatrick in an even worse light given how they've also said he's the one who is in change of scouting out the available players. To me it shows that he doesn't do the due diligence checks on those players or have that conversation with the coach as to how they would fit in with the clubs culture, the playing group or how they fit with the way the coach wants the team to play.

Every club signs 'dud' players from time to time who for whatever reason just dont work out but Wire seem to sign more than their fair share and they have a pretty big player turnover year after year. That suggests there's something seriously wrong at the club somewhere. Powell said there was a cultural problem, maybe that problem extends beyond just the playing group and the real change needs to happen further up the food chain ?

The interview seems to be behind a paywall now, but he did also say that the coach will have the final say on who we sign.

On the player turnover point, it's an interesting one.

Back in 2021 when it was announced that Powell would be taking over, let's look at the squad 1-13:

Ratchford (12 years service)

*Lineham (6yrs)

*Inglis (erm....)

*King (9yrs)

*Charnley (5yrs)

*Austin (3yrs)

*Widdopp (3yrs)

*Hill (10yrs)

Clark (9yrs)

*Cooper (14yrs)

Currie (12yrs)

*Hughes (7yrs)

Philbin (10yrs)

 

It is pretty clear that the issue isn't that we muck about with the team too much and make too many signings. That is the wrong conclusion to come to. 

All of those with an asterisk next to them had no place under Powell. This is why what Middleton is saying is correct.

[Chrispmartha]

19 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

If the now being reported rumours of Sam Burgess to Wire are true then the Wire senior management really are clueless, incompetent half-wits.

Its obvious there's a serious cultural problem at the clubs so if their idea to solve it is to appoint a coach with a history of domestic abuse, drug use, drug driving and a long list of NRL rule breaches then quite frankly the club deserves to end up in free fall and be at the bottom of the league.

If they appoint Burgess then they'll be a laughing stock !!!

It's a Callum Walker rumour - it won't be true

[Mumby Magic]

Chairman/CEOs never seem to point a finger at themselves/board or other things that is not Coach related. They are as much a part of the club as the coach himself. They had silverware under Smith but didnt kick on and were in prime position this season. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

26 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Chairman/CEOs never seem to point a finger at themselves/board or other things that is not Coach related. They are as much a part of the club as the coach himself. They had silverware under Smith but didnt kick on and were in prime position this season. 

It's not the main board, the three main backers (including the chairman) have put their money we're their mouths are for years whilst the CEO has been involved more with the day to day including coaches and involved with recruitment (maybe not in choosing but in negotiations).

No decent Warrington fan could criticise to he main three backers. It's that reason the CEO is under scrutiny from fans.

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Chairman/CEOs never seem to point a finger at themselves/board or other things that is not Coach related. They are as much a part of the club as the coach himself. They had silverware under Smith but didnt kick on and were in prime position this season. 

I mean the whole interview has him saying that they made mistakes. 

But ultimately they don't coach the team, and the issue here is coaching. 

[ELBOWSEYE]

40 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I mean the whole interview has him saying that they made mistakes. 

But ultimately they don't coach the team, and the issue here is coaching. 

Agree with were the team is this season but we can't ignore other issues like success of major signings (or failure) you can all make errors but if you make more mistakes eventually you need to look at the common factors.And the coach is not the common factor. Even Smith made bad signings but made more good signings.

[Dave T]

40 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Agree with were the team is this season but we can't ignore other issues like success of major signings (or failure) you can all make errors but if you make more mistakes eventually you need to look at the common factors.And the coach is not the common factor. Even Smith made bad signings but made more good signings.

I think the market is challenging at the moment. It's tough to just go out and buy players, but there is no doubt that the club have gone out and backed their coaches, so I'm happy to give credit for that. 

Plenty of signings haven't worked out for a variety of reasons, but tbh, I don't think there have been too many weird signings. Obviously Inglis and Burrell were outright flops, but they were always seen as leftfield gambles, which I'm OK with. 

People will point to the likes of Sandow, Austin, Widdop as flops, but all of them were stars in their first seasons, which suggests that ain't a major issue with the board or CEO for example.

Im not KF's biggest fan, but I think he's an easy target, it's just an extension of the 'sack the board' mentality when a team loses. 

However, I would say, if he extends Pater Matautia's contract then hand me a banner I'll join the protests!

[Spidey]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think the market is challenging at the moment. It's tough to just go out and buy players, but there is no doubt that the club have gone out and backed their coaches, so I'm happy to give credit for that. 

Plenty of signings haven't worked out for a variety of reasons, but tbh, I don't think there have been too many weird signings. Obviously Inglis and Burrell were outright flops, but they were always seen as leftfield gambles, which I'm OK with. 

People will point to the likes of Sandow, Austin, Widdop as flops, but all of them were stars in their first seasons, which suggests that ain't a major issue with the board or CEO for example.

Im not KF's biggest fan, but I think he's an easy target, it's just an extension of the 'sack the board' mentality when a team loses. 

However, I would say, if he extends Pater Matautia's contract then hand me a banner I'll join the protests!

KF is a useful target because he’s not the one putting the money in, nobody wants to annoy Moran, Middleton etc

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

KF is a useful target because he’s not the one putting the money in, nobody wants to annoy Moran, Middleton etc

I agree. 

I also think this vague 'toxic culture' thing is useful for spoilt people who can't accept losing and sport in general. 

[RigbyLuger]

Fitzpatrick is also very visible when things are going well. appearing on podcasts/TV, but less so recently, speaking as a non-Warrington fan.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Fitzpatrick is also very visible when things are going well. appearing on podcasts/TV, but less so recently, speaking as a non-Warrington fan.

He is surprisingly quiet at the moment. He is meant be leader. 

[The 4 of Us]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

He is surprisingly quiet at the moment. He is meant be leader. 

Considering his own position? You don’t need to read too much between the lines. 

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

Considering his own position? You don’t need to read too much between the lines. 

I don't pay too much attention to the local press tbh, but I can't recall when I last heard anything from him. 

[SUPERSTUD]

DP knew what he was getting himself into from day one. Although on reflection I feel that he may have underestimated the situation. I believe he genuinely went to the club and 100% wanted to be a success. BUT he also knew if it went belly up he was walking away with a golden pension top up handshake. The players he brought with him were questionable but every coach usually takes moles with him or her. Minikin signing absolutely baffled me. Harrison not so much. Possible favour to his old GB playing colleague Karl Harrison ex Fev etc. IMHO there is no doubt that massive egos are embedded at WW and some of the players are far too close to the board SR being one of them. WW have been an underperforming unit for far too long and someone needs to get a grip. If I was one of the money men I would be fuming.

[EagleEyePie]

On 04/08/2023 at 12:48, Dave T said:

The interview seems to be behind a paywall now, but he did also say that the coach will have the final say on who we sign.

On the player turnover point, it's an interesting one.

Back in 2021 when it was announced that Powell would be taking over, let's look at the squad 1-13:

Ratchford (12 years service)

*Lineham (6yrs)

*Inglis (erm....)

*King (9yrs)

*Charnley (5yrs)

*Austin (3yrs)

*Widdopp (3yrs)

*Hill (10yrs)

Clark (9yrs)

*Cooper (14yrs)

Currie (12yrs)

*Hughes (7yrs)

Philbin (10yrs)

 

It is pretty clear that the issue isn't that we muck about with the team too much and make too many signings. That is the wrong conclusion to come to. 

All of those with an asterisk next to them had no place under Powell. This is why what Middleton is saying is correct.

Am I right in thinking when Powell arrived at Wire he was quite critical of the playing group? I certainly got the impression (though it may have been through insinuation) that when players like Hill, Charnley, Hughes, Cooper, King etc were shown the door it was because they were deemed to be an issue.

It just seems a bit odd considering Hill instantly made an impact at Huddersfield and was better than any prop Wire retained. Charnley has been playing well since leaving and is now playing some of his best rugby. Cooper was ditched mid-season and Wire actually asked Wigan to sign him. He ended the season as Wigan's best prop and there's not been a hint of any attitude issues. King has been really good for Wigan, and despite a brief dip in form his reaction to being dropped for the Saints game was exceptional. It doesn't really seem like getting rid of bad apples.

Wire don't seem to have that many long-serving players anymore. Philbin, Currie, Clark and Ratchford have been around a while but Philbin and Currie haven't really fulfilled their potential. Ratchford has been moved to a position that I'm not sure really suits him so he can't have much influence. There's only Daryl Clark who is an established player in an influential position and he's leaving. I'd have thought trying to rebuild the club around some experienced heads who have been at the club long term would be the way forward. 

[Dave T]

59 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

Am I right in thinking when Powell arrived at Wire he was quite critical of the playing group? I certainly got the impression (though it may have been through insinuation) that when players like Hill, Charnley, Hughes, Cooper, King etc were shown the door it was because they were deemed to be an issue.

It just seems a bit odd considering Hill instantly made an impact at Huddersfield and was better than any prop Wire retained. Charnley has been playing well since leaving and is now playing some of his best rugby. Cooper was ditched mid-season and Wire actually asked Wigan to sign him. He ended the season as Wigan's best prop and there's not been a hint of any attitude issues. King has been really good for Wigan, and despite a brief dip in form his reaction to being dropped for the Saints game was exceptional. It doesn't really seem like getting rid of bad apples.

Wire don't seem to have that many long-serving players anymore. Philbin, Currie, Clark and Ratchford have been around a while but Philbin and Currie haven't really fulfilled their potential. Ratchford has been moved to a position that I'm not sure really suits him so he can't have much influence. There's only Daryl Clark who is an established player in an influential position and he's leaving. I'd have thought trying to rebuild the club around some experienced heads who have been at the club long term would be the way forward. 

Yeah, that was a part of my point. We haven't had mass clear outs, as per my list, before Powell most of our players were long term. 

But then this 'toxic culture' point was brought up by spoilt fans when we lost a game, Powell rode with it and had a mass clear out. The one time we have gone through a clear out process to apparently get rid of the toxic culture, we dropped from being a team 3rd in the table playing in Semi finals to one that finished 11th and could have been relegated. 

Powell's reign has been an unmitigated disaster. It genuinely couldn't have gone any worse. He has ballsed it up and despite substantial investment this year we are a car crash at the moment. It really is all on him. 

And I say that as someone who was very happy when we announced him, and I genuinely hope he goes on to do good things wherever else he goes. 

[Just Browny]

On 04/08/2023 at 12:43, ChristianB said:

Holbrook aside (and he's out of the equation anyway), I really hope Warrington avoid dipping in to the merry-go-round of established Super League coaches.

Personally, I'd love to see Lee Briers brought home to a big welcome mat and unreserved apology. For the blood, sweat and tears he gave for the club he deserves nothing less.

What have we to apologise to Briers for? He got 25 years of gainful employment from the club, despite some fairly mixed performance and commitment levels during the early years. He also seemed to have a lot of golf-focused leisure time during his coaching days.

It was clear to me that, to become a top coach, he needed a new club to get some fresh ideas and perspectives. His roles at Wigan and down under are probably ideal for that. I'd be delighted if he came back with a couple more years' experience under his belt.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

What have we to apologise to Briers for? He got 25 years of gainful employment from the club, despite some fairly mixed performance and commitment levels during the early years. He also seemed to have a lot of golf-focused leisure time during his coaching days.

It was clear to me that, to become a top coach, he needed a new club to get some fresh ideas and perspectives. His roles at Wigan and down under are probably ideal for that. I'd be delighted if he came back with a couple more years' experience under his belt.

Couldn't agree more. Briers is one of my favourite Wire players ever, but we owe him no apology. 

I'd like to see him apologise to us for joining Wigan!!!!

[Saint Toppy]

On 04/08/2023 at 20:59, RigbyLuger said:

Fitzpatrick is also very visible when things are going well. appearing on podcasts/TV, but less so recently, speaking as a non-Warrington fan.

He just needs a few more publicity stunts and the fans will love him again,

expect to see whizzy wheels dusted off for their next game with “I Fitzy“ on the side or a flypast with a banner saying “Fitzy is a great CEO” or “It’s all Powell’s fault”