Castleford stadium.

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

But you could just use that as a reason for every club to spend more. Leigh are fairly close to being one of the top teams in SL this season, why aren't they spending more money to try and attract a couple of world-class stars to push them over the edge?

Similalrly, should Bradford, Toulouse, Halifax etc also be throwing money at trying to get promoted? Maybe get a few bidding wars going until someone goes bust?

In any case, you clearly haven't noticed that since you started doing these kind of posts, Fev have "improved their squad a little" and signed a number of players (Arama Hau, Dan Smith, Ellis Longstaff, Dane Chisholm), some of them from SL/NRL clubs, which suggests you haven't really been paying attention. But there's a limit to the players that a Championship club can realistically sign without a sugar daddy.

 

There are ways and means Phantom albeit do agree a sugar daddy helps, the recent signings are theh SL quality? If you recall our discussion months ago I did say then that getting on board player's that will also double up next year in SL is paramount for continuity.

[The Phantom Horseman]

34 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There are ways and means Phantom albeit do agree a sugar daddy helps, the recent signings are theh SL quality? If you recall our discussion months ago I did say then that getting on board player's that will also double up next year in SL is paramount for continuity.

Again...names? Players of SL quality who will sign for a Championship club that's already spent to a max and can't guarantee a SL spot next year at this point? I mean, if you think Lachlan Lam will be tempted, let me know and I'll pass it on.

[OMEGA]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

It isn't just a tick on a spreadsheet, it's entirely the wrong way to look at it. 

They will spend money on modernising facilities which is what minimum standards are all about. 

The alternative is waiting for years and something never happening. 

A system that forces clubs to improve facilities is a good one. 

£2Million won’t scratch the surface at Weldon Road, they’re better off waiting and adding that money to whatever they can raise in the short term future

anything else is just frittering the money away on superficial cosmetics

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

It isn't just a tick on a spreadsheet, it's entirely the wrong way to look at it. 

They will spend money on modernising facilities which is what minimum standards are all about. 

The alternative is waiting for years and something never happening. 

A system that forces clubs to improve facilities is a good one. 

The plans are hardly improving facilities in reality. If putting in 50 or so padded and ca1500 plastic seats (that will provide an awful view of the pitch for anyone sitting in them) elevates WR into the top grading for facilities then I'd suggest the criteria being used aren't fit for purpose.

[Dave T]

22 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

£2Million won’t scratch the surface at Weldon Road, they’re better off waiting and adding that money to whatever they can raise in the short term future

anything else is just frittering the money away on superficial cosmetics

The problem is that plans have been in the pipeline for 20 to 30 years, and in that time grounds have been allowed to be neglected. Adding £2m to zero if this ends up failing again leaves is a waste of time.

 

16 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

The plans are hardly improving facilities in reality. If putting in 50 or so padded and ca1500 plastic seats (that will provide an awful view of the pitch for anyone sitting in them) elevates WR into the top grading for facilities then I'd suggest the criteria being used aren't fit for purpose.

As per my earlier post - I'm not saying that these are necessarily good plans, although it is an awful interview, with just a rambling response talking about really small details.

But what it shows is that they are way off the basic standard if this is the kind of thing they are saying they should spend money on. 

The problem here isn't the system, it is the fact that it has got to this stage. It'd be great over time if those minimum standards rise but the principle here is that the presence of these standards are driving investment into facilities.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

3 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I have in my head KR use their stadium for converts and stuff 

Do the Wakefield clubs do the same? 

How else do stadiums generate money on non RL game days?

I can only speak for Hull KR, and see it working on a number of levels.

On a very basic level owning your ground enables you to take control of the matchday customer experience in a much deeper way. For example Craven Streat is an example of that with Rovers, it would be very hard to deliver that as well in a shared facility, and very hard to do it at all as a tenant. But it goes all the way through to the branding and personalisation everywhere that makes something feel like 'home', and engages the community in a deeper way. In terms of revenue maximisation, you get to keep all of the ancilliary income, and create other partnerships to your needs, rather than having to do what your landlord would like (even if that landlord is a shared 'stadium manager' you have a role in too).  

On a direct commercial basis outside of games, you can run events on non-matchdays much more easily. Business meetings, conferences, weddings, concerts, you name it. You can build shared office space (Craven Park has an 'enterprise hub' for local start-ups), both for the rental income and to engage with the local business community (some of our sponsors are based there). You can use your facilities for community outreach activity. The latter could be rugby related (community & youth sides), e.g. Rovers 3G training pitch will be one of the East side of Hull's main sports hub for hundreds if not thousands (and I think Wakefield's hybrid pitch has the same idea behind it); or it could be non-rugby related (Hull KR's Foundation runs back-to-work and employability training, from the Craven Park site). Lots of different things basically. Many of them small on their own, but all add up to embedding the club within the heart of the community, which grows commercial revenues over time.

In a sport that is a 'challenger' sports business, where every inch of progress counts, I think that's the difference between building a secure future and always thinking just one season ahead. I can only talk about Rovers, but I've lived what "one season ahead" feels like, and now we have control of our own ground this is night and day compared to that. It sets the tone for the whole club growth strategy. 

[roversspud]

4 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

Spud,

I have heard Mainwaring is to be Captain and corporal Jones your fullback. One hell of a dad's army squad you have planned

When you have been out of the top flight for as long as we have, and having missed out on all the Sky millions that other teams like Wakey and Cas have had and frittered away, we have learnt to live within our means. This is something Wakey will have to learn next season when they are playing in front of 2 men and a dog. At the present moment I'd rather be in our situation than yours.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

34 minutes ago, roversspud said:

When you have been out of the top flight for as long as we have, and having missed out on all the Sky millions that other teams like Wakey and Cas have had and frittered away, we have learnt to live within our means. This is something Wakey will have to learn next season when they are playing in front of 2 men and a dog. At the present moment I'd rather be in our situation than yours.

When you say frittered away, you mean spend it on playing squads, like all the teams do in SL? This season has shown what happens when you scrimp on that front. If Featherstone hold anything back (should they get promoted) to use on infrastructure then their time in the spot light will be very short lived.

[sentoffagain2]

34 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

When you say frittered away, you mean spend it on playing squads, like all the teams do in SL? This season has shown what happens when you scrimp on that front. If Featherstone hold anything back (should they get promoted) to use on infrastructure then their time in the spot light will be very short lived.

It won't matter what Fev spend their money on if promoted this year.The IMG plan will mean we will not be relegated even if the performances on the field are poor and we easily finish bottom.I do think 2 will be promored from The Championship to bring SL to 14 teams for the 2025 season.Wakey and Toulouse would be fine but only if they earn it on the field against the other Championship clubs.

[DEANO]

Nothing will change. Cas we’re told 20 some years ago to improve their stadium if they wanted to remain in sl 

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, sentoffagain2 said:

It won't matter what Fev spend their money on if promoted this year.The IMG plan will mean we will not be relegated even if the performances on the field are poor and we easily finish bottom.I do think 2 will be promored from The Championship to bring SL to 14 teams for the 2025 season.Wakey and Toulouse would be fine but only if they earn it on the field against the other Championship clubs.

Fev could well be relegated in those circumstances if Wakey win the championship and their crowds hold up ok. Some of the categories are assessed over a three year period giving the long-time SL club and advantage in the calculation.

[sentoffagain2]

3 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Fev could well be relegated in those circumstances if Wakey win the championship and their crowds hold up ok. Some of the categories are assessed over a three year period giving the long-time SL club and advantage in the calculation.

  Not a snowballs chance in hell.

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I can only speak for Hull KR, and see it working on a number of levels.

On a very basic level owning your ground enables you to take control of the matchday customer experience in a much deeper way. For example Craven Streat is an example of that with Rovers, it would be very hard to deliver that as well in a shared facility, and very hard to do it at all as a tenant. But it goes all the way through to the branding and personalisation everywhere that makes something feel like 'home', and engages the community in a deeper way. In terms of revenue maximisation, you get to keep all of the ancilliary income, and create other partnerships to your needs, rather than having to do what your landlord would like (even if that landlord is a shared 'stadium manager' you have a role in too).  

On a direct commercial basis outside of games, you can run events on non-matchdays much more easily. Business meetings, conferences, weddings, concerts, you name it. You can build shared office space (Craven Park has an 'enterprise hub' for local start-ups), both for the rental income and to engage with the local business community (some of our sponsors are based there). You can use your facilities for community outreach activity. The latter could be rugby related (community & youth sides), e.g. Rovers 3G training pitch will be one of the East side of Hull's main sports hub for hundreds if not thousands (and I think Wakefield's hybrid pitch has the same idea behind it); or it could be non-rugby related (Hull KR's Foundation runs back-to-work and employability training, from the Craven Park site). Lots of different things basically. Many of them small on their own, but all add up to embedding the club within the heart of the community, which grows commercial revenues over time.

In a sport that is a 'challenger' sports business, where every inch of progress counts, I think that's the difference between building a secure future and always thinking just one season ahead. I can only talk about Rovers, but I've lived what "one season ahead" feels like, and now we have control of our own ground this is night and day compared to that. It sets the tone for the whole club growth strategy. 

100% spot on 

[roversspud]

59 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

When you say frittered away, you mean spend it on playing squads, like all the teams do in SL? This season has shown what happens when you scrimp on that front. If Featherstone hold anything back (should they get promoted) to use on infrastructure then their time in the spot light will be very short lived.

But that's the point. Next season playing performances won't matter, it will be infrastructure that will matter. IMG has seen to that.

[Toby Chopra]

7 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  Not a snowballs chance in hell.

Why? That's how the system works. Fev needs to be careful not to just assume they'll be protected in the new system.

If Wakey win the Championship and Fev finish bottom of SL, the performance points difference is negligible, Wakey have two SL seasons Vs Fev's one for the financial criteria, plus their new stadium will be on line.

2024 will be the one year that an existing SL team doesn't have an almost unassailable advantage in the gradings.

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, roversspud said:

But that's the point. Next season playing performances won't matter, it will be infrastructure that will matter. IMG has seen to that.

I suggest you look over the IMG documents. Playing performance does makes up part of the gradings, as does financial performance and media viewership, all averaged over the last 3 seasons, which favours teams that have spent more time in SL.

Fev need to be careful not to just mail it in next year on the assumption they're safe. If Wakey hold it together and win the championship, by my reckoning it's the one year they could go straight back up, even under the gradings.

[dboy]

Fev lose points for not having floodlights for a start.

[Fevrover]

50 minutes ago, dboy said:

Fev lose points for not having floodlights for a start.

But that can be rectified . 

[dboy]

Let me know when it's done.

Then you can sort that ridiculous slope.

Fev Lions amateurs have a better pitch.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

Fev lose points for not having floodlights for a start.

Not really.....you can't lose bonus points

[dboy]

OK - points you can't achieve.

 

[Fevrover]

9 hours ago, dboy said:

Let me know when it's done.

Then you can sort that ridiculous slope.

Fev Lions amateurs have a better pitch.

If you think that's ridiculous ( which it isn't) what do you think of Batley's?

[roversspud]

10 hours ago, dboy said:

 

Then you can sort that ridiculous slope.

Why? It's something that's different and makes the game interesting!

Good luck filling that shiny new stand in the Championship!

[Expatknight]

All this conjecture assumes Fev are going to get promoted this year, I wouldn’t bank on it, historically over the last few seasons they have failed at the final hurdle, as I have said previously it wouldn’t surprise me if The Broncos or Toulouse snatch it, or even Sheffield (god forbid) it ain’t over till the fat lady sings, as they say.

[Toby Chopra]

40 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

All this conjecture assumes Fev are going to get promoted this year, I wouldn’t bank on it, historically over the last few seasons they have failed at the final hurdle, as I have said previously it wouldn’t surprise me if The Broncos or Toulouse snatch it, or even Sheffield (god forbid) it ain’t over till the fat lady sings, as they say.

True, but the difference is in 2019 and 2021 they weren't the favourites, they lost the promotion finals to the regular season table-toppers as expected on both occasions.

This year, over the whole season, Fev are clearly the best team, they just have to make sure they don't get mugged on the day like Toronto did in 2018. And this year's London team ain't near as good as that one.