Newcastle Thunder

[RBKnight]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

But in the northeast, hasn't the game essentially lost most of both in the past few years?

Same with London.

Can't disagree there - what I'm saying, I guess, is that you can't expect a 3rd tier pro team to deliver development on its own (and I expect we agree on this)

 

[Ivarr the Boneless]

45 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do they survive mainly on gate receipts then?

Ice hockey is quite similar to RL. The top clubs are invariably bankrolled by wealthy people. The middle tier clubs largely fund themselves via admission money and match day spend. I used to be involved in a tier two side. We were invariably bottom and usually had several genuine amateurs and lots playing for petrol money.in return they travelled up and down the country, playing on both Saturday and Sunday.

Tiers three and four scrape their way through financially and many teams are pay to play 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Ivarr the Boneless

[RBKnight]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

But lets face it kids in Hunslet now follow Leeds. Its not really the same as the North East losing its only professional club.

Kids learn and play rugby at Hunslet ARLFC - what's the point of having a pro league if you haven't got any players ?

[NETIGER]

2 hours ago, Limmertime said:

Shame....academy, Reserves and Great pathways in NE to the game....gone!

Northumbria University arguably best RL uni for past 5 years also with many players going on to play for Thunder.

RFL don't have a magic money pit, but the way they have handled champ/l1 last few years has been amateurish...in fact the NCL seem to be a more professional governing body. 

Where now tho? 

As a Town fan, concerned for them and all other L1 clubs

Sadly the pathway was blocked by dual reg players of dubious ability getting first team slots after 2 training sessions. You cannot underestimate the effect it had on local talent except "why bother". Apparently lack of talent was made up for by the fact that they came from a fill time pro environment! So no matter what rep honours you had or offers from SL clubs Thunder chose not to play them and they left! Not all the fault of the RFL!

[Mathius Hellwege]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Give five examples of this obsession.

The examples of a conservative person would not persuade a liberal

does not make sense to discuss politics here

[idrewthehaggis]

11 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Looks like £££ and resources are going to be spent on maintaining all the community/development/foundation work going on in the NE.

"We will work with everybody impacted and do all we can to maintain this development."

Fair does RFL. Some clarity of what that would be might calm nerves. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

34 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

Expansion could work given the quality of the product but it needs a plan, it needs to be realistic and its products need nurturing.

Just thinking about the different approach taken by the NFL in recent years to tap in to the UK market. Over the past 15 years or so, they've brought some of their high profile games over to London and have been rewarded with big crowds. What they haven't done is try and rush things, or expect audiences to go and watch a 3rd rate version of their sport. I always find it bizarre when some posters on here point to a lack of crowds for teams in League 1 as evidence that expansion has failed and that people aren't interested in RL - the same logic often isn't applied to heartlands teams in League 1. Potential audiences are not going to watch a 3rd rate, semi-pro version of the sport - they want the top quality version. RL fans in Birmingham aren't going to be flocking in big numbers to watch Midlands Hurricanes. Some die hards will go, but others will be more likely to travel up to watch Saints, Wigan or Leeds. It's the same reason people aren't flocking in big numbers to watch Hunslet.

The RFL's development strategy is completely nonexistent - any development has just been ad hoc, based purely around which clubs/individuals have put their hands up saying they'll run a club in League 1. We dump new clubs in League 1 with a 'sink or swim' philosophy, and when they inevitably struggle on the pitch and fail to draw big crowds, we call expansion a failure. The money spent on those new league 1 clubs since 2013 could have been spent far more wisely. There were plenty of voices on here who said at the time that it wasn't sustainable due to the lack of infrastructure and player base in those areas. I would much rather see a strategy similar to the NFL, where the RFL has a long term plan to take some of the England team's fixtures to new areas, coupled with some investment in grass roots development in those areas. Unfortunately, I think that ship has now sailed, as the money is just not there, and I have a fear that this Autumn's tests against Tonga will not be well attended, which will cause an even greater reluctance from the RFL to take any risks in future.

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

Kids learn and play rugby at Hunslet ARLFC - what's the point of having a pro league if you haven't got any players ?

That makes zero sense in the context of the post of yours I replied to.

Those kids in Hunslet are now inspired to play the sport by Leeds Rhinos and have been for a long time. They also have a clear pathway to the professional game through either Leeds of a myriad of alternatives on their doorstep.

Kids in the North East having their only professional club and it's academy taken away are already hitting ceilings that make it much harder to progress. Other sports will have far clearer pathways than what they will now face. As far as I'm aware Newcastle also did good work in the community. Without this slack taken up the game and its development in the North East can only suffer and we've seen in London what happens when this stuff starts to peel away.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Damien

[RBKnight]

1 minute ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

The examples of a conservative person would not persuade a liberal

does not make sense to discuss politics here

York's "obsession" with diversity delivered a 4,500+ crowd at their stadium for a domestic Women's RL game last weekend. We sold over 1,500 through the club shop alone. Really dragging the game down.....

[crashmon]

16 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

You meant the Democrats, right?

Dont want to get into politics on a RL thread.  Let me just say therefore like the American political system as a whole

[Griff]

27 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Give five examples of this obsession.

Off the top of my head ?

Women's RL, Wheelchair RL, PDRL, LDRL, openly gay referees and players, first black player to captain a national team.

There's six for you to be going on with.

[Derwent Parker]

6 hours ago, Expatknight said:

It is shameful the way Rugby League is run in this country. Too much self interest by the top clubs, yet these same clubs are only too happy to go and cherry pick the talent that some of the so called lesser clubs produce. Marketing is a joke, I go back to the Summer Bash held at York, absolutely nothing around the town or even near the stadium to let people know it was on, if you didn’t know you wouldn’t know. The big money spinners were always the tests against Australia and to a lesser extent New Zealand, Test Matches and club games against the tourists always brought good numbers in. The Aussie clubs now don’t like releasing their players to play us, they would rather play against emerging southern hemisphere countries, namely the pacific islands and PNG. The international board should insist that they release players for ALL international games but they won’t because the big money is down under. When Super League started it was supposed to be the saviour of our great game, sadly I think the opposite is true, barring the clubs in Super League the rest of the family have been cast aside and left to their own devices, when really it is those clubs that need the extra financial support. I really feel for the Thunder fans and those at Skolars, West Wales and many others that have sadly left the semi pro ranks. We are worse for it. 

They shouldn't be allowed "to go and cherry pick the talent that some of the so called lesser clubs produce" They should pay a "Transfer fee" to those clubs who produce the players.

[NETIGER]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

That makes zero sense in the context of the post of yours I replied to.

Those kids in Hunslet are now inspired to play the sport by Leeds Rhinos and have been for a long time. They also have a clear pathway to the professional game through either Leeds of a myriad of alternatives on their doorstep.

Kids in the North East having their only professional club and it's academy taken away are already hitting ceilings that make it much harder to progress. Other sports will have far clearer pathways than what they will now face. As far as I'm aware Newcastle also did good work in the community. Without this slack taken up the game and its development in the North East can only suffer and we've seen in London what happens when this stuff starts to peel away.

It also needs to be noted that Thunder effectively blocked their academy pathway with dual reg players. IT wasn't uncommon to see representative players be 18th man or water carriers whilst the dual reg players turned up straight into the first team. 

[Derwent Parker]

5 hours ago, NETIGER said:

Sad sad news as the club has been part of our familly life over the past 10 years and given us great opportunities for which we are forever grateful. However it would be remiss of me not to mention that they have let of young local talent through their hands sacrificed on the back of SL dual reg. These players who had their places taken were good enough for international honours but basically scrapped on the back of what looked like some average talent ( a 9 that could neither pass nor tackle from a big SL club comes to mind )

Dual Reg should be scrapped

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, NETIGER said:

It also needs to be noted that Thunder effectively blocked their academy pathway with dual reg players. IT wasn't uncommon to see representative players be 18th man or water carriers whilst the dual reg players turned up straight into the first team. 

No more than anyone else. That's the rules, unfortunately. What about their scholarship programme and u15s, did they block people through those too?

[Griff]

11 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

They shouldn't be allowed "to go and cherry pick the talent that some of the so called lesser clubs produce" They should pay a "Transfer fee" to those clubs who produce the players.

Is that what happens when you change jobs?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

Sad but inevitable 

Can we now avoid Saint James Park for events seeing as it hasn't cemented any lasting impact to sustain a pro team ? 

It puts off a lot of southerners as it's so far and hotels are absolutely ludicrously expensive 

[Gooleboy]

4 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

A sliding doors moment. But I think they would not have lasted as long as Newcastle/Gateshead. 

A more pertinent question might be; what might have happened if Gateshead had been allowed a second season in SL?

The Gateshead operation was moved to save Hull.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

11 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Sad but inevitable 

Can we now avoid Saint James Park for events seeing as it hasn't cemented any lasting impact to sustain a pro team ? 

It puts off a lot of southerners as it's so far and hotels are absolutely ludicrously expensive 

Could fans in the North East make the same argument about showpiece games in London?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Could fans in the North East make the same argument about showpiece games in London?

What's the potential catchment of both?

[Stainesrover]

Surely the Sheikhs at NUFC could help them out with what to them will literally be pennies. Bring them in with the Falcons RU under their umbrella. Even if it's so young kids in the area still have dreams of playing. 

 

Plus how good would this make them look to outsiders, especially with the way people feel about that part of the world.

[Angelic Cynic]

It looks like the RFL's Strategy Reset,whatever that may mean,or be,may have to be reset.https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-league/55261514

Should have put them into Super League - the TV money didn't seem to harm Leigh in any way.

[bromleybulldog]

 The response from the RFL to the withdrawals of London Skolars and now Newcastle has been nothing more than a few statements of wishy washy platitudes (review, consultations etc) and it got me thinking about who is actually running the RFL these days. Not long ago there was more or less unanimous agreement that the likes of Nigel Wood and Ralph Rimmer were nothing more than overpaid and over promoted placeholders who contributed very little to the growth and development of the game but now - well I can't even name whoever it is in charge of the game. Whoever it is seems to have achieved an astonishing level of invisibility. Who is it? What is their plan for the game? Are they there to lead? Or just to collect a large salary and then move on to be replaced by someone else from the back office following an exhaustive world wide search and selection process? The game is falling apart and there appears to be no leadership at all coming from the RFL. Time to start earning their salaries, I suggest.

Edited October 13, 2023 by bromleybulldog

[Derwent Parker]

3 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

https://twitter.com/HunsletRLFC/status/1712759383036190954?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Its spot on as well as the comments below it

[Tommygilf]

On Hunslet's statement, I'm not sure the game should be guided by a club that manages to achieve school assembly level crowds in the largest RL supporting city in the country whilst having a modern stadium, established history and a few decent sponsors over the years...