England vs Samoa Series

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

10 minutes ago, JonM said:

There's no way any "long-term, sustainable NH international programme" involves the full England team playing other NH countries in the next decade and probably even longer. 

Personally I disagree. The level of competitiveness probably wouldn't be great, but England should definitely be playing other NH nations and playing them regularly IMO. Now this probably wouldn't appeal massively to the heartlands audience, so take the games to new areas and use them as a tool to engage a new audience. It wouldn't need to be a full strength England, because a new audience wouldn't know either way, but it can't be labelled England Knights as that instantly devalues the whole competition. Unfortunately, the RFL are never going to do this.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

9 minutes ago, JonM said:

I wonder whether there's an argument for a one-off England v Samoa game rather than a 3 match series. It clearly reduces costs and potentially allows Samoa to still take part in the series with Australia, NZ etc. If we're going to get an aggregate of below 40K for 3 games anyway, then a one-off at say Bolton or Elland Road might be more profitable.

Can't see them travelling all the way over here for 1 game. Not sure if a 4 Nations type comp would be feasible (given that France and Wales may have WC qualifiers) or profitable.

[sam4731]

I feel like this is definitely going to happen otherwise its a really dumb idea to announce it might happen for it not to happen again.

I've said it before, I'd go ambitious with Spurs, Anfield, Elland Road. A half filled Spurs has 10 times the value to a full Wigan.

 

[GeordieSaint]

Lol… couldn’t make it up! 

Hope it happens. Definitely needs a London game. 

[graveyard johnny]

if it happens they have to bring ALL their big gun players or there's no point

[Click]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not a case of who I'd prefer England to play next year (as I said - I'd be quite happy with Samoa). It's more a case of wishing that the RFL would be proactive in taking a lead to try and create some sort of long-term, sustainable NH international programme. But all the evidence suggests they're not going to, and Samoa touring gives them another excuse to kick the can down the road again.

But in this "press release" it mentions that this Samoa tour is supposed to coincide with a tournament of NH countries. 

There needs to be an awful lot more done for the NH game then just having England beat Scotland by 50+.  

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

16 minutes ago, Click said:

There needs to be an awful lot more done for the NH game then just having England beat Scotland by 50+.  

Couldn't agree more - there needs to be a clear, sustainable structure in place for all countries to find their level. But England should be a part of it IMO. I like the idea of European Championships a la the Davis Cup, where teams compete in pools of 4 with P&R between them. If England are as strong as everyone reckons, then stick a second string in there. Just don't call it England Knights and devalue the comp instantly!

[Hopie]

“It is pleasing that they understand how important Samoa is to the international rugby league family and I was very impressed by their positive approach towards helping to build the game in the Northern Hemisphere.”

God damn, Aussies are arrogant p****s at times aren't they.

As for the series itself, get it booked in now, I want to book the weekends off work!

And do it properly this time. Given the World cup revenge narrative, surely the Emirates and St James Park are no-brainers?

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not a case of who I'd prefer England to play next year (as I said - I'd be quite happy with Samoa). It's more a case of wishing that the RFL would be proactive in taking a lead to try and create some sort of long-term, sustainable NH international programme. But all the evidence suggests they're not going to, and Samoa touring gives them another excuse to kick the can down the road again.

But what exactly do you mean by that?

Firstly, that is not the RFL's role, our involvement should be by supporting the international boards.

Secondly - I ask again, who do you mean? Because unless you have some teams in mind, your point is hollow. Outside of France, who we play regularly, there is no emerging quality nation in Europe. Sure, support these nations, but they are generations away from being anywhere near England, if ever. 

We aren't just playing Australia, NZ and co for a laugh, geographically, we are isolated. That's the reality.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

There's no way any "long-term, sustainable NH international programme" involves the full England team playing other NH countries in the next decade and probably even longer. 

Agreed, and I'd suggest far, far longer. 

The correct approach, imo was integrating these nations into tournaments such as 4N, World Cups, World Nines and Fed Cups, as was the plan.

[Coggo]

I’m sure that press release gave everyone in the IRL office a good laugh. Both of them must be in stitches. 

[Dave T]

31 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Couldn't agree more - there needs to be a clear, sustainable structure in place for all countries to find their level. But England should be a part of it IMO. I like the idea of European Championships a la the Davis Cup, where teams compete in pools of 4 with P&R between them. If England are as strong as everyone reckons, then stick a second string in there. Just don't call it England Knights and devalue the comp instantly!

What does that word sustainable mean? 

[Click]

55 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Couldn't agree more - there needs to be a clear, sustainable structure in place for all countries to find their level. But England should be a part of it IMO. I like the idea of European Championships a la the Davis Cup, where teams compete in pools of 4 with P&R between them. If England are as strong as everyone reckons, then stick a second string in there. Just don't call it England Knights and devalue the comp instantly!

How do you weaken the main England team without using the England Knights brand?

You can't just say - we can exclude the NRL players, we have enough in SL to still put 50 + on every other NH team, barring France. So how else do you weaken it? How do you put a "second string" in there? Say don't worry to the likes of Welsby, etc. we're giving England debuts to players not as good.

[Bongo1]

57 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Couldn't agree more - there needs to be a clear, sustainable structure in place for all countries to find their level. But England should be a part of it IMO. I like the idea of European Championships a la the Davis Cup, where teams compete in pools of 4 with P&R between them. If England are as strong as everyone reckons, then stick a second string in there. Just don't call it England Knights and devalue the comp instantly!

England should do what Australia did with PNG and Fiji before the 2017 World cup and have a Tri game with Wales and Scotland/Ireland, it isn't perfect but would give each team 40 mins against Engalnd and England would get 80 mins warm up for the Autumn internationals

[Click]

5 minutes ago, Bongo1 said:

England should do what Australia did with PNG and Fiji before the 2017 World cup and have a Tri game with Wales and Scotland/Ireland, it isn't perfect but would give each team 40 mins against Engalnd and England would get 80 mins warm up for the Autumn internationals

I am honestly confused - A tri game?

Australia played PNG in the first half and then Fiji in the second? 

I can't say I have heard about this before .....

 

I have since googled it.. I can't say I had heard about it before, 3 matches that are all 40 minutes apiece instead of 80.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/341559/sport-rugby-league-tri-series-a-perfect-test-for-fiji-png

Either way, it doesn't sound that great. Probably why it hasn't been seen again in 6 years.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Click

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Bongo1 said:

England should do what Australia did with PNG and Fiji before the 2017 World cup and have a Tri game with Wales and Scotland/Ireland, it isn't perfect but would give each team 40 mins against Engalnd and England would get 80 mins warm up for the Autumn internationals

We should have all the Euro teams lined up and whenever a try is scored the conceding team leaves the field and the next one comes on.

[Click]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We should have all the Euro teams lined up and whenever a try is scored the conceding team leaves the field and the next one comes on.

This just sounds like it will be a England Vs Combined Nations again when it comes to the scoreboard  

[Bongo1]

13 minutes ago, Click said:

I am honestly confused - A tri game?

Australia played PNG in the first half and then Fiji in the second? 

I can't say I have heard about this before .....

 

I have since googled it.. I can't say I had heard about it before, 3 matches that are all 40 minutes apiece instead of 80.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/341559/sport-rugby-league-tri-series-a-perfect-test-for-fiji-png

Either way, it doesn't sound that great. Probably why it hasn't been seen again in 6 years.

Yeah like I said it isn't perfect , guess it just takes away the 80 minute thrashing haha 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Click said:

But in this "press release" it mentions that this Samoa tour is supposed to coincide with a tournament of NH countries. 

There needs to be an awful lot more done for the NH game then just having England beat Scotland by 50+.  

Tbf, the only time England have ever played Scotland, England beat scotland by 26 points, and were actually behind until the 36th minute. It probably won't be that close now granted, but given the right environment the NH nations can be competitive at least.

We've been poor at utilising opposition that have presented themselves to us. Even Tonga were second (arguably third) choice, after the Kiwis turned us down and I assume the Aussies were assumed to not be interested!

[Dave T]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbf, the only time England have ever played Scotland, England beat scotland by 26 points, and were actually behind until the 36th minute. It probably won't be that close now granted, but given the right environment the NH nations can be competitive at least.

We've been poor at utilising opposition that have presented themselves to us. Even Tonga were second (arguably third) choice, after the Kiwis turned us down and I assume the Aussies were assumed to not be interested!

We do need to be careful of overstating what the likes of Scotland can do. As a fan of theirs I'd love them to be competitive, but in reality, they are always gonna be hit and miss and putting the odd good performance in isn't gonna be a game changer, as we've seen with France, playing annually for example will generally lead to smashings and games that don't appeal. 

And that's why the likes of Scotland playing in a Euro Nations and then World Tournaments was the rigt approach. There are no shortcuts here, and with no groundwork, suggesting that Scotland were a viable alternative to Southern Hemisphere Tests isn't sensible. 

Scotland shouldn't be discussed in the same breath as the likes of Tonga and Samoa etc. 

[The Rocket]

6 hours ago, Damien said:

Hopefully the RFL learn their lesson and step up their offering.

That`s a really petty shot. Maybe the ERL will step up theirs. A couple of days ago you were saying the IRL has never been weaker than under Troy Grant, now we hear that he has convinced Samoa to reconsider touring next year for the sake of the development of Northern hemisphere Rugby League and given the paucity of viable options in your own backyard how important it is. Mate a little bit of credit where credits due wouldn`t go astray. Make it a ripping tour and maybe there will probably be plenty more.

[JonM]

46 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbf, the only time England have ever played Scotland, England beat scotland by 26 points, and were actually behind until the 36th minute. It probably won't be that close now granted, but given the right environment the NH nations can be competitive at least.

I mean, England have lost to Italy and Scotland have drawn with New Zealand (in 2016). But the reality is that in terms of domestic playing numbers, Serbia, Wales, Czechia and Greece are all ahead of Italy and Scotland. And a "long-term, sustainable" NH competition presumably means not relying on English & Aussie players with the right grandparents but actually having reasonable numbers of kids playing feeding through into a proper elite academy type structure and all that goes into producing professional players in any numbers.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

That`s a really petty shot. Maybe the ERL will step up theirs. A couple of days ago you were saying the IRL has never been weaker than under Troy Grant, now we hear that he has convinced Samoa to reconsider touring next year for the sake of the development of Northern hemisphere Rugby League and given the paucity of viable options in your own backyard how important it is. Mate a little bit of credit where credits due wouldn`t go astray. Make it a ripping tour and maybe there will probably be plenty more.

What a really bizarre response to my post. I honestly havent got a clue what are you talking about or what that has got to do with the RFL?

Surely you are aware of how shambolic the Tonga tour was and what a poor choice of venues there was and little attempt to make any of the matches into must see events. The RFL have to offer more, and certainly make it more attractive than what they put on for Tonga, or Samoa would be well within their rights to not tour. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Only just seen this news. I do hope the series goes ahead, I've never seen Samoa play in the flesh so I'd definitely be getting tickets no matter where its played. 

[The Rocket]

4 hours ago, Damien said:

What a really bizarre response to my post. I honestly havent got a clue what are you talking about or what that has got to do with the RFL?

Surely you are aware of how shambolic the Tonga tour was and what a poor choice of venues there was and little attempt to make any of the matches into must see events. The RFL have to offer more, and certainly make it more attractive than what they put on for Tonga, or Samoa would be well within their rights to not tour. 

Yes, I beg your pardon I may have got my RFL`s and ERL`s mixed up, but either way, Samoa tour next year, Ashes in Oz 2025, good prep for playing in Oz conditions for the following year`s WC and then inbound tours from OZ and NZ the following two years, sounds like a pretty damn good international calendar to me.