Carcassonne

[Barley Mow]

5 hours ago, owls said:

...is not Super League  supposed to be a European league not a renamed division 1,

This is the real issue for me - We have never defined what Super League is supposed to be.

Is it a European competition? A Franco-British competition? A competition for the whole of the northern hemisphere?

We currently have two French clubs but because they aren't members of the RFL, they are styled as guest members of the competition (which is administered by the RFL). The same applied when we had a Canadian entrant and I assume this was the case for PSG.

To confuse matters further, if Carcassonne were to join the RFL system they wouldn't be entering the (European?) Super League but League 1. I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that L1 or the Championship are Europe wide comps, but French clubs (and Toronto) joined them on the same terms as they enter Super League.

It is further complicated by North Wales Crusaders (and previously South/West Wales) being full RFL members even though the RFL now only administers the game in England.

Is this an English, British, Franco-British, European or northern hemisphere system?

If one of the latter, why is it run by the governing body for England rather than an organisation involving the governing bodies of other member clubs as well?

Whatever happens with Carcassonne, this is the issue that I think needs addressing.

[Derwent Parker]

On 05/12/2023 at 21:28, NRLandSL said:

They will absolutely wipe the floor with league 1. They are already quality championship side, if the RFL know what they’re doing they should go straight into The championship.

It depends

If we just have one league below SL by then? - then no problem, if not and we still have Champ and L1 [which would probably be SL 12, Ch 12 and L1 11 - then L1 should still have 2 up which means  3 would have to be relegated from Ch to make way?

[Derwent Parker]

On 07/12/2023 at 19:07, glossop saint said:

I agree. I was replying to a post saying that was saying that Carcassonne needed to get out of L1 and into the championship quickly so that the championship away fans would be able to keep them afloat. I was saying that that is not feasible. I don't see enough away fans travelling for championship or even SL clubs to keep any French team afloat. They need their own fans and finance. That will determine their long term future.

I agree that they've got a good base and that that could increase with the attraction of visiting British teams. 2000 could potentially support a top half championship team but not when you have to take into account that they need to pay for visiting teams. For this they really need more corporate sponsorship or benefactor money.

Edit. I completely agree about reliance on away fans be the club be in France Wales or the M62 corridor. A useful income stream but it isn't going to be enough to base a business plan on.

Note ! - Everyone needs to get out of L1 - its a disgrace to RL -  No money and no interest and no help from RL

[Dave T]

On 10/12/2023 at 17:54, Barley Mow said:

This is the real issue for me - We have never defined what Super League is supposed to be.

Is it a European competition? A Franco-British competition? A competition for the whole of the northern hemisphere?

We currently have two French clubs but because they aren't members of the RFL, they are styled as guest members of the competition (which is administered by the RFL). The same applied when we had a Canadian entrant and I assume this was the case for PSG.

To confuse matters further, if Carcassonne were to join the RFL system they wouldn't be entering the (European?) Super League but League 1. I don't think there has ever been any suggestion that L1 or the Championship are Europe wide comps, but French clubs (and Toronto) joined them on the same terms as they enter Super League.

It is further complicated by North Wales Crusaders (and previously South/West Wales) being full RFL members even though the RFL now only administers the game in England.

Is this an English, British, Franco-British, European or northern hemisphere system?

If one of the latter, why is it run by the governing body for England rather than an organisation involving the governing bodies of other member clubs as well?

Whatever happens with Carcassonne, this is the issue that I think needs addressing.

I agree with your post - but in reality, it has been defined - it is the RFL's pyramid in reality. That tells you all you need to know. It is the English comp with some guests.

It's always been an issue of mine - I think the French governing body should have had some skin in the game. Not unlike how the URC are run.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Still very sad that Luc resigned the WC 2025 cancelling i think knocked the stuffing out of him.

Still though feeling positive 

[Wigan Riversider]

On 12/12/2023 at 17:00, Dave T said:

I agree with your post - but in reality, it has been defined - it is the RFL's pyramid in reality. That tells you all you need to know. It is the English comp with some guests.

It's always been an issue of mine - I think the French governing body should have had some skin in the game. Not unlike how the URC are run.

SL was originally the dawn of a new era in 1995 when it was first announced.

In reality and I am happy to be labelled cynical it was something to fill Rupert Murdoch's pay per view sports channel(s).

What SL is now is not something I can comment on as I don't watch it.

[Click]

1 hour ago, Wigan Riversider said:

SL was originally the dawn of a new era in 1995 when it was first announced.

In reality and I am happy to be labelled cynical it was something to fill Rupert Murdoch's pay per view sports channel(s).

What SL is now is not something I can comment on as I don't watch it.

Wasn't Rupert Murdoch coming in with SKY the only reason RL is still functioning at a professional level?

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Wigan Riversider said:

SL was originally the dawn of a new era in 1995 when it was first announced.

In reality and I am happy to be labelled cynical it was something to fill Rupert Murdoch's pay per view sports channel(s).

What SL is now is not something I can comment on as I don't watch it.

I always find this an odd thing for people to point out as though it is an insightful view. 

Of course Sky paid millions to provide content to fill their channels. That's what they do, and it's also what they spend billions on football for. To fill their channels. 

[Pulga]

 

 

I apologise for my source but apparently Limoux is interested too.

[eal]

Is this all perhaps a sign that a professional French league is as far away as ever and the more ambitious clubs are deciding to go another direction?

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, eal said:

Is this all perhaps a sign that a professional French league is as far away as ever and the more ambitious clubs are deciding to go another direction?

I think we are seeing the strong French clubs highlighting the existing French professional pyramid is holding them back.

I think it also demonstrates the demand for a European pyramid below SL for which the Championship is the obvious host, whilst League 1 and Elite 1 can feed through to the European Championship which feeds through to the European Super League.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Sports Prophet

[Yorks Tim]

9 hours ago, Pulga said:

 

 

I apologise for my source but apparently Limoux is interested too.

That's handy as the travel arrangements will be pretty much the same for both away trips!

[Midlands hobo]

5 hours ago, Yorks Tim said:

That's handy as the travel arrangements will be pretty much the same for both away trips!

Long way in the back of a fiesta!

[fighting irish]

Bring them in, let's have a European Super League. That'll give it some geographic spread 'eh? More prestigious, all round. 

[Wigan Riversider]

On 13/12/2023 at 22:43, Dave T said:

I always find this an odd thing for people to point out as though it is an insightful view. 

Of course Sky paid millions to provide content to fill their channels. That's what they do, and it's also what they spend billions on football for. To fill their channels. 

I was neither trying to be insightful nor intelligent and certainly not supercilious.

My point is simply that compared to football, cricket and rugby union our sport seems to have accepted disgusting commercial deals from ppv TV since the original 1995 Murdoch deal. Sky now seems to pay less to our sport.

What SL is now I don't know but it isn't what I believed it might be in 1995.

[Click]

23 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

I was neither trying to be insightful nor intelligent and certainly not supercilious.

My point is simply that compared to football, cricket and rugby union our sport seems to have accepted disgusting commercial deals from ppv TV since the original 1995 Murdoch deal. Sky now seems to pay less to our sport.

What SL is now I don't know but it isn't what I believed it might be in 1995.

Not sure how RL has accepted "disgusting" deals compared to football or RU?

How can you even know what SL is now? You've said that you don't watch it.

[Wigan Riversider]

13 minutes ago, Click said:

Not sure how RL has accepted "disgusting" deals compared to football or RU?

How can you even know what SL is now? You've said that you don't watch it.

I still read about it.

[Click]

10 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

I still read about it.

So what is SL now compared to what you believed it was originally going to be?

And what are those digusting deals that RL has accepted?

[Wigan Riversider]

In no order:

-Full time professionalism, it happened in 1996 and most of the money went to the FT players as stated by a former friend of mine the late and great Dave Hadfield of the Independent. FT professionalism in theory was to offer for us at last the opportunity to compete with the world's best, yes, the Australians. No excuses for training on Tuesday/ Thursday nights in the wet, mud, sleet, snow etc. We saw that after the 1982 kangaroo tour where our game was embarrassed.

- no regard to ground improvements ala the 'Framing The Future' document of that era.

- European SL clubs, then again before he sadly passed M Lindsay admitted that a SL club in Italy was unlikely as former All Black John Kirewan's wife was from Milan. That was the criteria for the comment.

- After the 1995 WC I had hoped for a 4 v 4 end of season WC championship as we were promised.

- I didn't expect a £1.9? Million salary cap in 2023, about the same as Wigan RLFC were allegedly paying players in 1992. A mere 30+ years ago.

- The Eddie Stobart deal of several years ago ie. We will advertise SL on our lorries but you will receive no money.

- Disgusting sponsorship in my eyes however I accept your democratic point of view if you disagree.

- Less TV money each year from Disney for our sport, or whoever is in charge/ owns it now... I have no idea.

- I could go on but won't.

- Then again, SL is a feeder league for the NRL, I don't watch it either but believe it is a different sport in terms of quality.

- Otherwise.

- I wish you a Merry Christmas.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

In no order:

-Full time professionalism, it happened in 1996 and most of the money went to the FT players as stated by a former friend of mine the late and great Dave Hadfield of the Independent. FT professionalism in theory was to offer for us at last the opportunity to compete with the world's best, yes, the Australians. No excuses for training on Tuesday/ Thursday nights in the wet, mud, sleet, snow etc. We saw that after the 1982 kangaroo tour where our game was embarrassed.

- no regard to ground improvements ala the 'Framing The Future' document of that era.

- European SL clubs, then again before he sadly passed M Lindsay admitted that a SL club in Italy was unlikely as former All Black John Kirewan's wife was from Milan. That was the criteria for the comment.

- After the 1995 WC I had hoped for a 4 v 4 end of season WC championship as we were promised.

- I didn't expect a £1.9? Million salary cap in 2023, about the same as Wigan RLFC were allegedly paying players in 1992. A mere 30+ years ago.

- The Eddie Stobart deal of several years ago ie. We will advertise SL on our lorries but you will receive no money.

- Disgusting sponsorship in my eyes however I accept your democratic point of view if you disagree.

- Less TV money each year from Disney for our sport, or whoever is in charge/ owns it now... I have no idea.

- I could go on but won't.

- Then again, SL is a feeder league for the NRL, I don't watch it either but believe it is a different sport in terms of quality.

- Otherwise.

- I wish you a Merry Christmas.

SL is a full time professional competition, with a superb French team as one of the major players, played out of generally excellent facilities, with the World Club Champions not even making this year's Grand Final. 

There are plenty things I'd like the game to be doing better, but it ain't all bad. 

[Wigan Riversider]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

SL is a full time professional competition, with a superb French team as one of the major players, played out of generally excellent facilities, with the World Club Champions not even making this year's Grand Final. 

There are plenty things I'd like the game to be doing better, but it ain't all bad. 

Spot on Dave.

I hope genuinely that SL could do it better than it is currently and that needs more financial investment IMHO.

Have a wonderful Christmas.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Spot on Dave.

I hope genuinely that SL could do it better than it is currently and that needs more financial investment IMHO.

Have a wonderful Christmas.

You too mate, all the best. 

[sweaty craiq]

Expansion is simple - France is the place and a French tv deal to pay for it is essential

[JM2010]

On 16/12/2023 at 02:28, Pulga said:

 

 

I apologise for my source but apparently Limoux is interested too.

I’d think that might be as a joint venture with Carcassonne rather than two separate teams. Maybe ran as an Aude team with Carcassonne and Limoux remaining in Elite, like Catalans do

[ATLANTISMAN]

As i predicted once Carcassonne showed interest Limoux followed Lezignan will be next followed by i predict Albi this whole thing needs sorting out as all these clubs leaving will be the death of the French Elite 1.

Only way forward is for a serious Anglo French cup with groups which will stop this madness, problem is it will take someone with vision to put it all together and this wont happen from the RFL who are potless and rudderless.

I cannot see anyone independently putting this together as the last time a serious proposal was put forward to the RFL (Girona Nines) all they did was take the idea themselves and put it out for commercial tender which received not one bid (Surprise Surprise) and then swept the whole thing under the carpet.

Edited December 17, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN