2024 thread on other Championship teams

[The Phantom Horseman]

Thought I'd start a new thread to discuss other Championship teams for the 2024 season as the old one had reached 22 pages.

Skybet were first up with the odds for the season and they go as follows (Betfred are also up with fairly similar odds)

Wakefield Trinity	2/7
Toulouse Olympique	10/1
Featherstone Rovers	12/1
Bradford Bulls	14/1
Halifax Panthers	16/1
Sheffield Eagles	25/1
Widnes Vikings	25/1
York City Knights	25/1
Batley Bulldogs	33/1
Doncaster RLFC	40/1
Dewsbury Rams	50/1
Barrow Raiders	100/1
Swinton Lions	100/1
Whitehaven RLFC	100/1

Probably looks not too far off to me. I'd have York a fair bit shorter but other than that pretty much as you'd expect. We're second or third favourites behind Wakefield and close in the betting to Toulouse and Bradford, that reflects on the one hand our consistent record in the comp but also the fact that we look much weaker on paper than in the last couple of years, especially in terms of depth.

Wakefield are interesting in that their odds probably reflect the overall weakness of the competition as much as their own strength. They have retained 15 (I think) of their SL squad and added some good pick-ups including Iain Thornley, Lachlan Walmsley, Jermaine McGillvary, our own Matthieu Cozza, and several others. They're staying full time, they've got Daryl Powell in to coach them, and it's no surprise to see them priced up so short, but that's partly because there isn't an obvious challenger.

I must admit though I was surprised to their new owner say publicly he'd already spent £1.3 million on the squad though. That doesn't half put a target on their back - it will probably be almost 3 times as much as any other team spends - and it's a similar amount to what Leigh were rumoured to have spent in the Championship in 2022.

Still, it's good for the game that there's another rich, enthusiastic owner getting involved, and his bullishness might well be proved right because they undoubtedly have a strong squad for this division and 2024 looks to be potentially the weakest Championship for years. We obviously look weaker on paper; Toulouse were beatable last year, have lost arguably their best player in Josh Ralph and haven't made many eyecatching signings yet; Bradford look to be a bit more stable than they were previously and should be a steady top 3 team, but would probably need it to be a really weak comp to win it; York look potential improvers having made some good signings, but the only club that looks like it could be potentially dominant is Wakefield, and even they don't look on paper like they're going to be anything like Leigh were two years ago.

Quite looking forward to us reverting to being (hopefully) the plucky underdogs again though.

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[J Phil Loxton]

Think Fev will finish around fifth in a very tight finish between second and eighth.Donny will be stronger than Keighley were last season especially at home. Batley who are never fancied always play for one another and will be there abouts for play offs. York will go well too. Because I see it as a more even league (Wakefield aside) I truly think Wakey will romp home but it could be tricky for them having to come to Fev early on much the way that Leigh did a couple of seasons ago. Bradford will be biggest improvers.

[Michael Bates]

I'm amazed Wakefield have spent £1.3m. Their squad is the best in the championship but I agree that reflects the lack of talent in the league. I do think it'll be a better competition than the last few years however. The Wakefield squad isn't a patch on the Leigh squad that won the championship to say the costs are similar. 

[Kirmonds pouch]

21 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Thought I'd start a new thread to discuss other Championship teams for the 2024 season as the old one had reached 22 pages.

Skybet were first up with the odds for the season and they go as follows (Betfred are also up with fairly similar odds)

Wakefield Trinity	2/7
Toulouse Olympique	10/1
Featherstone Rovers	12/1
Bradford Bulls	14/1
Halifax Panthers	16/1
Sheffield Eagles	25/1
Widnes Vikings	25/1
York City Knights	25/1
Batley Bulldogs	33/1
Doncaster RLFC	40/1
Dewsbury Rams	50/1
Barrow Raiders	100/1
Swinton Lions	100/1
Whitehaven RLFC	100/1

Probably looks not too far off to me. I'd have York a fair bit shorter but other than that pretty much as you'd expect. We're second or third favourites behind Wakefield and close in the betting to Toulouse and Bradford, that reflects on the one hand our consistent record in the comp but also the fact that we look much weaker on paper than in the last couple of years, especially in terms of depth.

Wakefield are interesting in that their odds probably reflect the overall weakness of the competition as much as their own strength. They have retained 15 (I think) of their SL squad and added some good pick-ups including Iain Thornley, Lachlan Walmsley, Jermaine McGillvary, our own Matthieu Cozza, and several others. They're staying full time, they've got Daryl Powell in to coach them, and it's no surprise to see them priced up so short, but that's partly because there isn't an obvious challenger.

I must admit though I was surprised to their new owner say publicly he'd already spent £1.3 million on the squad though. That doesn't half put a target on their back - it will probably be almost 3 times as much as any other team spends - and it's a similar amount to what Leigh were rumoured to have spent in the Championship in 2022.

Still, it's good for the game that there's another rich, enthusiastic owner getting involved, and his bullishness might well be proved right because they undoubtedly have a strong squad for this division and 2024 looks to be potentially the weakest Championship for years. We obviously look weaker on paper; Toulouse were beatable last year, have lost arguably their best player in Josh Ralph and haven't made many eyecatching signings yet; Bradford look to be a bit more stable than they were previously and should be a steady top 3 team, but would probably need it to be a really weak comp to win it; York look potential improvers having made some good signings, but the only club that looks like it could be potentially dominant is Wakefield, and even they don't look on paper like they're going to be anything like Leigh were two years ago.

Quite looking forward to us reverting to being (hopefully) the plucky underdogs again though.

 

 

 

It's interesting to read your angle. Many Trinity fans think that some of the other teams are very strong and we will struggle, and this is the most competitive Championship ever.

As an outsider to the comp, I sit between you and those Trin fans. I don't think it's weaker comp, just more level than previous years.

Ellis wants to sell season tickets, he is a salesman after all. I think he's bullish but its all for Trinity fans consumption, I don't think he's goading like Beaumont used to.

I think the point you're missing with Trinity, is that the team we start with won't be the one we end with. I think we will have a recruitment burst in the last third of the season. It's what Leigh did, it's also what we did in 1998, we even used to do it to avoid relegation (last year was the first time it failed, doh).

It's all down to Powell in truth, if he can use the advantages given to him, especially the full time squad, then I agree we should win, but sport doesn't always work that way, as Fev know better than most.

Be the ultimate irony if you won it this year with much reduced resources, but it's far from impossible, especially if your lucks in.

[The Phantom Horseman]

26 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

It's interesting to read your angle. Many Trinity fans think that some of the other teams are very strong and we will struggle, and this is the most competitive Championship ever.

 

It's competitive because it's weaker than in previous years. Fev are unquestionably weaker on paper, not saying we can't go well if things drop right but the fact we've halved our spending says a lot. Toulouse are nowhere near the team they were in 2021, when they had Remy Casty & Harrison Hansen (both still playing at a high level) as their starting middles, to be replaced off the bench by Mitch Garbutt and Justin Sangare, with peak-form Ford and Kheirallah pulling the strings. Bradford were nothing special last year and have only made a couple of notable signings in the off-season but along with Toulouse are most people's pick for the top 3 which says a lot. It won't take a good team to win it this year.

26 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

I think the point you're missing with Trinity, is that the team we start with won't be the one we end with. I think we will have a recruitment burst in the last third of the season. It's what Leigh did, it's also what we did in 1998, we even used to do it to avoid relegation (last year was the first time it failed, doh).

 

Everyone knows that's the blueprint not least because London's promotion was predicated on the short-term signings of Norman and Whare, both of whom are now no longer with them - they wouldn't have gone up without them in my opinion. Indeed, Fev have done this ourselves in previous years, notably in 2019, when half the team that played in the play-offs weren't with us halfway through the season (we had jersey numbers 37, 38, 42, 45 and 46 appear for us in the final). It's a natural end-product of the unfortunate watering-down of the regular season - why bother paying for a strong squad for the full season when you can finish 18 points behind the leaders and still be adjudged the winner of the comp?

Edited December 14, 2023 by The Phantom Horseman

[mightyship]

22 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

It's interesting to read your angle. Many Trinity fans think that some of the other teams are very strong and we will struggle, and this is the most competitive Championship ever.

As an outsider to the comp, I sit between you and those Trin fans. I don't think it's weaker comp, just more level than previous years.

Ellis wants to sell season tickets, he is a salesman after all. I think he's bullish but its all for Trinity fans consumption, I don't think he's goading like Beaumont used to.

I think the point you're missing with Trinity, is that the team we start with won't be the one we end with. I think we will have a recruitment burst in the last third of the season. It's what Leigh did, it's also what we did in 1998, we even used to do it to avoid relegation (last year was the first time it failed, doh).

It's all down to Powell in truth, if he can use the advantages given to him, especially the full time squad, then I agree we should win, but sport doesn't always work that way, as Fev know better than most.

Be the ultimate irony if you won it this year with much reduced resources, but it's far from impossible, especially if your lucks in.

When I look at the Trin team then I think you have a great squad and certainly the best in the division and along with being full time makes you absolute favourites. The one thing with Daryl in charge- as we’re familiar with in hys time at Fev - is that when it comes to the crunch games he sometimes doesn’t seem to be able to get his teams up for it. And as winning the championship is based on a one off final then that could be a problem for you.

And as we found last year - it’s not always easy being favourites as it brings its own pressure and everyone is gunning for you.

i don’t doubt you could go through the season unbeaten even but it’s all based on that play off series as to whether it means anything or not ( which I’ve always thought is a daft system but that’s another thread )

looking forward to seeing a good crowd for a local derby on Good Friday and seeing if how close we can get to competing with Wakey this year 

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Be the ultimate irony if you won it this year with much reduced resources, but it's far from impossible, especially if your lucks in.

That would be a typically Fev thing to do, now that auto promotion isn't available.

 

[Fevrover]

46 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

That would be a typically Fev thing to do, now that auto promotion isn't available.

 

Said same mesen.

[Kirmonds pouch]

2 hours ago, mightyship said:

When I look at the Trin team then I think you have a great squad and certainly the best in the division and along with being full time makes you absolute favourites. The one thing with Daryl in charge- as we’re familiar with in hys time at Fev - is that when it comes to the crunch games he sometimes doesn’t seem to be able to get his teams up for it. And as winning the championship is based on a one off final then that could be a problem for you.

And as we found last year - it’s not always easy being favourites as it brings its own pressure and everyone is gunning for you.

i don’t doubt you could go through the season unbeaten even but it’s all based on that play off series as to whether it means anything or not ( which I’ve always thought is a daft system but that’s another thread )

looking forward to seeing a good crowd for a local derby on Good Friday and seeing if how close we can get to competing with Wakey this year 

It is but in a way it's not. It's as more to do with IMG points from now on. The reason I think we need to at least make the final is purely for credibility. We could get away with losing the actual final, after all it's a one off, but I think we need to at least be there.

TBF on Powell, he's never actually coached at what you'd call a 'winning' club. When with you I think he was on his learning curve. Cas always flattered to deceive, he worked wonders with that team, but when it came to the business of winning finals they were always 3-4 players short. At Warrington he can just join a very long list, i wouldn't judge him on that, there was something fundamentally wrong with that club last year, even we hammered them! Truth is only Wigan, Saints and Leeds have winning titles in there DNA, I reckon Powell and a fair few other coaches would have won the title with that Wigan team.

His ability to win the Championship Final will almost certainly come down to how consistent Trinity will have been under his rule and who else he brings in, it's a fine line.

[Kirmonds pouch]

2 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

That would be a typically Fev thing to do, now that auto promotion isn't available.

 

It was typical Trin to survive for 22 years in SL against all the odds, then finally get a ground upgrade and a millionaire, but not soon enough to save us from relegation. I know exactly where you're coming from. You have to wonder if there is a curse on all thre WMDC clubs at times.

[The Blues Ox]

Agree with most of PH's review and would certainly say its the weakest Championship in many years. We normally have at least one other team who you think could potentially challenge a stand out team but this year we simply don't have that. Average teams have stayed pretty average and some teams have cut their budgets quite considerably this year.

Bradford should get 2nd or 3rd in my eyes just because of the depth in their squad but I still think they will be miles off Wakey and when I compare the Bulls likely starting team to Fax's, I don't really see much to fear its just that our squad is so thin with literally no strength in depth to cover for injuries. Sheffield and York look pretty decent but I wouldn't say either have made huge improvements on last season that would see them make a big leap.

For me we get 2024 out of the way and get London back in the league and you may go from having a pretty poor competition next season to having one where although its not as strong as previous years it would be really wide open when it comes to picking a winner.

[Rene_Artois]

19 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Agree with most of PH's review and would certainly say its the weakest Championship in many years. We normally have at least one other team who you think could potentially challenge a stand out team but this year we simply don't have that. Average teams have stayed pretty average and some teams have cut their budgets quite considerably this year.

Bradford should get 2nd or 3rd in my eyes just because of the depth in their squad but I still think they will be miles off Wakey and when I compare the Bulls likely starting team to Fax's, I don't really see much to fear its just that our squad is so thin with literally no strength in depth to cover for injuries. Sheffield and York look pretty decent but I wouldn't say either have made huge improvements on last season that would see them make a big leap.

For me we get 2024 out of the way and get London back in the league and you may go from having a pretty poor competition next season to having one where although its not as strong as previous years it would be really wide open when it comes to picking a winner.

I'd agree Sheffield and York are incrementally stronger than last year. 2nd place is up for grabs. Top 6 is between 7 sides. Wakefield, Toulouse, Bradford, Featherstone, York, Sheffield and Halifax. 7 sides below them scrambling against relegation to a varying degree.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Rene_Artois

[Rene_Artois]

To be clear though. I'm hoping for 9th or 10th for the Dons. A stress free season will do us nicely

[The Phantom Horseman]

On 14/12/2023 at 14:50, Kirmonds pouch said:

It was typical Trin to survive for 22 years in SL against all the odds, then finally get a ground upgrade and a millionaire, but not soon enough to save us from relegation. I know exactly where you're coming from. You have to wonder if there is a curse on all thre WMDC clubs at times.

Hmm. Another way of looking at that is that Wakefield clung on to survival for 22 years, then the year they finally got relegated, the ground gets upgraded, a millionaire owner arrives, and a new formula for SL entry appears which heavily favours those clubs that have spent at least one in SL in the last three years, meaning they probably won't even have to win the Grand Final to make it back in 2025. If I were a Wakefield fan, I'd be thinking we must have a lucky charm, not a curse.

[marklaspalmas]

30 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Hmm. Another way of looking at that is that Wakefield clung on to survival for 22 years, then the year they finally got relegated, the ground gets upgraded, a millionaire owner arrives, and a new formula for SL entry appears which heavily favours those clubs that have spent at least one in SL in the last three years, meaning they probably won't even have to win the Grand Final to make it back in 2025. If I were a Wakefield fan, I'd be thinking we must have a lucky charm, not a curse.

Amen brother. 

The unflushable ###### of SL finally get kicked out, but hey ho, here's a new system that'll let them straight back in for, ..... wait for it, ....... building a stand.

Fev built a stand in 1986, another in 1997, and two more in 2015.

But we're all in the same boat in  WMDC, toughing it out against a mean old council that never gives us anything......

[marklaspalmas]

Unflushable brown floating log then, if t u r  d is swearing. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

6 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Amen brother. 

The unflushable ###### of SL finally get kicked out, but hey ho, here's a new system that'll let them straight back in for, ..... wait for it, ....... building a stand.

Fev built a stand in 1986, another in 1997, and two more in 2015.

But we're all in the same boat in  WMDC, toughing it out against a mean old council that never gives us anything......

Actually last year WMDC 'gave' Wakefield £5.9m of the £12m they spent from the S106 fund......

https://www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/politics/council/call-for-assurances-to-protect-ps6million-council-investment-in-wakefield-trinitys-belle-vue-stadium-revamp-4428604

[Blind side johnny]

On 14/12/2023 at 21:38, Rene_Artois said:

I'd agree Sheffield and York are incrementally stronger than last year. 2nd place is up for grabs. Top 6 is between 7 sides. Wakefield, Toulouse, Bradford, Featherstone, York, Sheffield and Halifax. 7 sides below them scrambling against relegation to a varying degree.

If there is such a thing at the end of the season - I suspect that there won't be.

[Adam B]

On 16/12/2023 at 11:10, marklaspalmas said:

Amen brother. 

The unflushable ###### of SL finally get kicked out, but hey ho, here's a new system that'll let them straight back in for, ..... wait for it, ....... building a stand.

Fev built a stand in 1986, another in 1997, and two more in 2015.

But we're all in the same boat in  WMDC, toughing it out against a mean old council that never gives us anything......

I second that amen.

Not only did we do all that ourselves, we did it without a penny of Supergreed's Danegeld, while Trinity spaffed a quarter century's worth of sky money up the wall, with so little to show for it they eventually had to bounce the council and it's partners into re-building them a ground. No doubt the cost of this will eventually be passed on quietly to the unsuspecting council tax payers of Wakey and the Five Towns. They should be ashamed.

[POR]

[marklaspalmas]

I count five ex Fev here.

But I normally miss one or two...

[gazza77]

2 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

I count five ex Fev here.

But I normally miss one or two...

I'd say 5 as well, unless Jamie Field has made a very delayed playing comeback.

[POR]

Guess the commentator 

 

[POR]

Not much to see funny thing game kicked off at 12 : 12

 

[fevnut]

On 24/12/2023 at 16:28, gazza77 said:

I'd say 5 as well, unless Jamie Field has made a very delayed playing comeback.

I have 5 as well. The 'Jamie Field' is not our ex=player coming out of retirement at the age of 47! This one is a 29 year-old prop signed from Westgate ARL.