2024 attendance thread

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

The cup has been superceded by the league?

The league has always been a big thing and is in the other sports that have been cited.

Edited March 22 by Damien

[Damien]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They've tried different dates, different scheduling, bringing in other broadcasters (Sky had a few matches), heck they even tried a new venue at Spurs, they've tried SL teams in at different stages, they've introduced the 1895 Cup and Womens Challenge Cup.

They are also reportedly considering a new format of the whole competition.

Hardly any of that had anything to do with trying to make the Challenge Cup more popular though. They were either changes that were forced upon the RFL or were pathetic token efforts, like adding a double header, which practically everyone on here derided. I don't think that anyone with any seriousness can claim that the RFL have done anything to arrest the decline.

Edited March 22 by Damien

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

A lot of it does feel superficial in retrospect, but perhaps that is because most of it doesn't feel like it has worked at all.

I think they've focused on the wrong things, constantly shifting the dates and trying double headers at semi final and final stage. 

Putting top clubs coming in really late has generally been seen as a negative. 

None of those things are going to get more bums on seats in meaningful numbers. I wouldn't say they've done anything really to make it more attractive to punters. 

Wire v London this weekend is a tough sell. But tbh, Wire look like they aren't even bothering and I expect they'll get 4k or so as a reward. It's as low-key as they come. It's as much on the clubs as it is the RFL. 

It's weird, because the opportunity to get a half decent crowd has probably better returns than many league games which has many as ST holders. 

But in reality it'll have the feel of a pre-season friendly and isn't worth getting off your backside for. 

[Eddie]

58 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They've tried different dates, different scheduling, bringing in other broadcasters (Sky had a few matches), heck they even tried a new venue at Spurs, they've tried SL teams in at different stages, they've introduced the 1895 Cup and Womens Challenge Cup.

They are also reportedly considering a new format of the whole competition.

I can see how you might see it that way but an alternative view is that those changes show the lack of a plan. The dates moving around has been a hindrance (having to look up what month the final is in every year isn’t a great look for the sport’s premier cup competition) and bringing in different broadcasters shows a lack of continuity or ability to seal a longer term tv contract also. I do like the 1895 cup concept though. 

[Damien]

Just on the Challenge Cup, I've waited ages to see a mention of what the prize money is these days and here is a comparison between now and 1999. It makes for pitiful viewing even before you factor in 25 years of inflation:

 

[Hopping Mad]

13 hours ago, HawkMan said:

What other sporting knock out competitions?

FA Cup Q Finals were all packed, Champions league knock out round likewise. T20 cricket and latter rounds seems popular. Rugby Union cups struggle, certainly, but CC problem is the lack of glamour ties, David against Goliath. SL teams should enter earlier.....simples.

The FA Cup has been in serious decline for years. Attendances in the rounds before the quarter-finals are not what they used to be. Even many non-league clubs no longer treat the FA Cup seriously, mimicking Premier and Football League clubs by naming 'shadow' teams and reducing admission prices in an attempt to attract a reasonable crowd. The FA Trophy has become a joke. Indeed, the FA Vase - for smaller non-league clubs - is the only major football knockout competition still treated with respect by all who enter.

Edited March 22 by Hopping Mad

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Just on the Challenge Cup, I've waited ages to see a mention of what the prize money is these days and here is a comparison between now and 1999. It makes for pitiful viewing even before you factor in 25 years of inflation:

 

It'd be interesting to understand what the structure for distribution is nowadays. Maybe more is thrown into the central funding pot rather than distributed as prize money. 

Clearly we haven't grown it at all, but it may not be a like for like comparison. 

[HawkMan]

51 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

The FA Cup has been in serious decline for years. Attendances in the rounds before the quarter-finals are not what they used to be. Even many non-league clubs no longer treat the FA Cup seriously, mimicking Premier and Football League clubs by naming 'shadow' teams and reducing admission prices in an attempt to attract a reasonable crowd. The FA Trophy has become a joke. Indeed, the FA Vase - for smaller non-league clubs - is the only major football knockout competition still treated with respect by all who enter.

Really?

5th round attendances;

Coventry V Maidstone 26, 757

Bournemouth v Leicester 10, 872 ( near capacity)

Blackburn v Newcastle 22,730

Luton v Man City 11, 163 ( near capacity)

Chelsea v Leeds 37,882

Nottingham Forest v Man Utd 28,665

Wolves v Brighton 23, 882

Liverpool v Southampton 59, 782

4th round,  selected only

Bristol City v Nottingham Forest 25, 787 and 27,754 ( replay)

Chelsea v Aston Villa 39, 375 and 40, 013

Tottenham v Man City 60, 872

Ipswich v Maidstone 27, 273

Leeds v Plymouth 35, 247

If this is serious decline I'm a Dutch man.......now where's my Oranjeboom

Edited March 22 by HawkMan

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It'd be interesting to understand what the structure for distribution is nowadays. Maybe more is thrown into the central funding pot rather than distributed as prize money. 

Clearly we haven't grown it at all, but it may not be a like for like comparison. 

I can't see how it would be much different to be honest, if at all.

[Tommygilf]

Attendances for tonight's games?

[M j M]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It'd be interesting to understand what the structure for distribution is nowadays. Maybe more is thrown into the central funding pot rather than distributed as prize money. 

Clearly we haven't grown it at all, but it may not be a like for like comparison. 

The Silk Cut sponsorship was hugely lucrative and the banning of that revenue stream (absolutely the correct thing to do) was very costy to the sport.

[meast]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Attendances for tonight's games?

5,733 Wigan v Sheffield

 

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

The Silk Cut sponsorship was hugely lucrative and the banning of that revenue stream (absolutely the correct thing to do) was very costy to the sport.

Where is Eddie Stobart when you need him?

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, meast said:

5,733 Wigan v Sheffield

 

That's not bad for the cup tbh

[Eddie]

10 hours ago, meast said:

5,733 Wigan v Sheffield

 

A few more than I’d expected. 

[up the robins]

With no attendance announcement for Hull kr would comfortably guess looking around the stadium we had well above 6 thousand, possibly above 7 thousond. It looked a bit off our recent sellouts but definitely looked like a healthy attendance.

[ATLANTISMAN]

14 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

The FA Cup has been in serious decline for years. Attendances in the rounds before the quarter-finals are not what they used to be. Even many non-league clubs no longer treat the FA Cup seriously, mimicking Premier and Football League clubs by naming 'shadow' teams and reducing admission prices in an attempt to attract a reasonable crowd. The FA Trophy has become a joke. Indeed, the FA Vase - for smaller non-league clubs - is the only major football knockout competition still treated with respect by all who enter.

Would agree with you about the FA Vase

[gingerjon]

14 hours ago, Hopping Mad said:

The FA Cup has been in serious decline for years. Attendances in the rounds before the quarter-finals are not what they used to be. Even many non-league clubs no longer treat the FA Cup seriously, mimicking Premier and Football League clubs by naming 'shadow' teams and reducing admission prices in an attempt to attract a reasonable crowd. The FA Trophy has become a joke. Indeed, the FA Vase - for smaller non-league clubs - is the only major football knockout competition still treated with respect by all who enter.

You could lose the Trophy tomorrow and no one would really notice.

The FA Vase is, IMO, the best football tournament we have. Absolutely love it.

[N2022]

4 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Would agree with you about the FA Vase

Yes, perhaps it's taken seriously, but there's a question mark about how major it is when there are higher ranked English clubs playing in 3 European cup competitions, the FA Cup, the EFL Cup, the EFL trophy, and, as I understand it, the FA trophy. It's possibly the lowest ranked national Cup for men's 11-a-side teams. 

[Tommygilf]

Leeds vs Saints not announced last night apparently...

[Tommygilf]

For any that say the cup not being on Season tickets isn't an issue: a visual comparison of a match between the same teams in both comps, 1 week apart.

 

 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

For any that say the cup not being on Season tickets isn't an issue: a visual comparison of a match between the same teams in both comps, 1 week apart.

 

 

I'm stunned whenever anyone tries to deny that point, although it is so obvious now that does seem to have calmed down. 

I don't know what crowd Wire expect tonight, very few I expect, but an example of how little effort they've put in is in their comms. I've checked a few of their releases about this match, and they don't mention the prices. They simply give a link for tickets and say there are discounts for members. They did summarise the pricing 11 days ago just after the draw, but other than that no mention. 

Yet they have actually reduced the prices - all adult tickets are £20 for anywhere in the ground, even main stand seats, or £15 for members. They should be shouting about the pricing, but it really feels like this game is an inconvenience tbh. 

[sweaty craiq]

Thought Leigh, we, would struggle to sell 3000 plus whatever fev bring - looks like we have sold 4500 plus Fev which aint bad for Sat 2pm

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm stunned whenever anyone tries to deny that point, although it is so obvious now that does seem to have calmed down. 

I don't know what crowd Wire expect tonight, very few I expect, but an example of how little effort they've put in is in their comms. I've checked a few of their releases about this match, and they don't mention the prices. They simply give a link for tickets and say there are discounts for members. They did summarise the pricing 11 days ago just after the draw, but other than that no mention. 

Yet they have actually reduced the prices - all adult tickets are £20 for anywhere in the ground, even main stand seats, or £15 for members. They should be shouting about the pricing, but it really feels like this game is an inconvenience tbh. 

It is the number 1 factor without doubt.

I know from attending LUFC cup matches and having mates at other football clubs where league stadium capacity is well below demand, the cheap tickets for cup games thing works to an extent but even then they have to try hard and aren't guaranteed attendances as good as league games (often relying on larger away followings than usual too). And that is for clubs where demand outstrips supply!

A lot of our club's whole attitude to the cup has the feel of pre-season friendly, and crowds reflect that too alongside the Season ticket point. Leeds vs Saints last night was in Leeds' regular well attended match slot, against a big side who we (according to some) only just lost to last week, and in a knockout comp a decent few rounds into the season but not so much you could argue for over saturation. It couldn't have been better really from a marketing POV.

It's really poor that these games aren't getting good attendances. It really would not surprise me to see the solution being something that packages Cup games into Season Tickets, and perhaps in a way that guarantees a certain number of matches too. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It's really poor that these games aren't getting good attendances. It really would not surprise me to see the solution being something that packages Cup games into Season Tickets, and perhaps in a way that guarantees a certain number of matches too. 

I think if you were creating a new sporting calendar from scratch and had a complete blank sheet of paper, nobody would come up with a straight knockout tournament anymore - there's just too much uncertainty around the fixtures. There's a reason that existing comps like the Champions League and RU European Cup, plus relatively new competitions like the IPL and The Hundred have gone done the group format route prior to knockouts. The only future I can see for the Challenge Cup is a group fixture format where it's included in the season tickets. It would definitely lose a lot of the romance, but it would seem to be a more pragmatic solution.