Halifax skint

[Butch]

21 minutes ago, LeeF said:

If Whitehaven had those levels of crowd then they would be happy and probably not in their current financial mess

They would still be in a mess. They would just spend more. 

[The Blues Ox]

48 minutes ago, Griff said:

The one follows the other. It'll be HMRC who'll be collecting any underpaid tax and NI.

HMRC have an employment status tool on their website. Test it out for yourself and see what you think. Be honest with your answers.

More than likely the players are just self employed. 

[Neutralfan7]

Fax will have to find winning pay from somewhere as well after today... Will they travel to Toulouse next week? 

[The Blues Ox]

22 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Fax will have to find winning pay from somewhere as well after today... Will they travel to Toulouse next week? 

Freebie pee up? Of course they will.

[Griff]

30 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

More than likely the players are just self employed. 

Think what you like. No skin off my nose.

[Neutralfan7]

9 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Freebie pee up? Of course they will.

Losing pay at their jobs to go over to potentially not get paid I was meaning

[The Blues Ox]

3 minutes ago, Neutralfan7 said:

Losing pay at their jobs to go over to potentially not get paid I was meaning

Im sure they have had time booked off for months now and again its a free pee up in France. Maybe there is one or two who wont risk it but I imagine we will put a team on the field. Only 1 player today refused to play which I hope is a good sign.

[Tommygilf]

15 hours ago, Griff said:

The one follows the other. It'll be HMRC who'll be collecting any underpaid tax and NI.

HMRC have an employment status tool on their website. Test it out for yourself and see what you think. Be honest with your answers.

That appears to be what HMRC are doing, for the club at least.

I'm not challenging your knowledge of HMRC's employment status rules or whether IR35 applies, for example, I'm challenging that you said the RFL state they have to be employed in RFL compliant contracts? And it was this which would be a problem.

[Blind side johnny]

On 07/09/2024 at 23:19, Griff said:

They can offer less but the players might not accept. And there's minimum pay legislation to consider, sick pay, paternity pay, 5.6 weeks holidays - it's a different world to the 1970s and 1980s.

For part-time players? Are you sure?

[The Future is League]

On 06/09/2024 at 03:17, Just Browny said:

https://halifaxpanthers.co.uk/panthers-news/a-call-for-support-securing-the-future-of-halifax-panthers/

Bit of a worry.

One of the Golden rules of business is that you can't have more going out than coming, but a vast majority of professional and semi professional sports team ignore that and then put out the begging bowl.

[Fevrover]

59 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

One of the Golden rules of business is that you can't have more going out than coming, but a vast majority of professional and semi professional sports team ignore that and then put out the begging bowl.

Not defending it but sadly it's not just sport.

[Neutralfan7]

Winding up order to be heard on Wednesday 

[northamptoncougar]

What exactly does that mean? If they don’t pay on the day they’re done?

[Griff]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

That appears to be what HMRC are doing, for the club at least.

I'm not challenging your knowledge of HMRC's employment status rules or whether IR35 applies, for example, I'm challenging that you said the RFL state they have to be employed in RFL compliant contracts? And it was this which would be a problem.

If true, they would both be problems.

As far as I am aware, RFL still require copies of contracts to be deposited with them, so they'd notice a non-stansard contract of self employment.  Hence my scepticism. But barring the club coming on here and clarifying, we'll never know the facts.

[Griff]

7 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

For part-time players? Are you sure?

When I've time, I'll google minimum holiday pay for you. Might be a few days though.

[Neutralfan7]

4 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

What exactly does that mean? If they don’t pay on the day they’re done?

Not too sure, at a guess, if they don't pay by Wednesday they're done?

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

One of the Golden rules of business is that you can't have more going out than coming, but a vast majority of professional and semi professional sports team ignore that and then put out the begging bowl.

Like Fevrover says, most teams do it. Lets take Wakey because of the discussion on the other thread, Matt Ellis comes in makes a bunch of promises that sound brilliant, current owner does his due dilligence and things add up and Matt Ellis takes over. Fax have about 5 local businessmen who offer to buy the club, they are long term Fax fans, due dilligence shows they all run succesful businesses and one of them is in the process of selling his business for millions of pounds. They all agree to put x amount in each month and it all seems too good to be true. The deal to buy the club goes through.

Matt Ellis sticks to his promises and Wakefield prosper. Fax buyers one by one drop out and stop putting the money they promised in to the club and the club is on the verge of ceasing to exist. Its such a fine line when it comes to sports clubs.

[LeeF]

37 minutes ago, Griff said:

If true, they would both be problems.

As far as I am aware, RFL still require copies of contracts to be deposited with them, so they'd notice a non-stansard contract of self employment.  Hence my scepticism. But barring the club coming on here and clarifying, we'll never know the facts.

The RFL used to hold copies of the contracts but these were sealed and only opened if there was a dispute as that way players’ remuneration was kept secret. Whether that has now changed I don’t know

[LeeF]

41 minutes ago, northamptoncougar said:

What exactly does that mean? If they don’t pay on the day they’re done?

No it depends on a number of factors. 

The Judge can grant the petition at which stage the money becomes due or the Judge can dismiss it.

Before the hearing the 2 parties can come to an agreement over the repayment schedule so the hearing won’t be held.

Halifax’s directors may decide to throw the towel in if there is no way forward  

Other Creditors can potentially “piggy back” on the HMRC petition and take their own action resulting in other debt potentially become immediately due.

I assume that the Directors are obtaining advice from a firm of Insolvency Practitioners as it is a complex area and there are many potential pitfalls. The IP should also be trying to draw up a plan which the creditors agree to eg repay over x years. 

Any agreement would have to be realistic and achievable as well as acceptable to all parties.

[Just Browny]

https://halifaxpanthers.co.uk/panthers-news/financial-update-9-9-24-halifax-panthers/

HMRC apparently paid, players not so.

[The Blues Ox]

11 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

https://halifaxpanthers.co.uk/panthers-news/financial-update-9-9-24-halifax-panthers/

HMRC apparently paid, players not so.

Good news, obviously had to be HMRC first otherwise the players would not be getting paid because there would not be a club left. The question is what plan does the club now have in place to stop this happening again especially as they have borrowed the funding from next year to help out, not that it will be a lot but its one less income source for next season.

[wilsontown]

In soccer, Southend Utd have had multiple hearings to be wound up but have managed to keep staving it off until a takeover could happen. Possibly Fax can do the same but not if there is no prospect of creditors getting paid. 

If HMRC have been paid then I'd say there's hope but what happens next month? And players won't play for free for very long.

[Agbrigg]

Fax as a club has so much potential, this is a real shame. It would be hard to imagine someone new coming in and sucking up the debt left by the present bod. I wonder if they will follow the bulls example, go jugs up and start to work their way back from league 1. 

[Blind side johnny]

24 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Good news, obviously had to be HMRC first otherwise the players would not be getting paid because there would not be a club left. The question is what plan does the club now have in place to stop this happening again especially as they have borrowed the funding from next year to help out, not that it will be a lot but its one less income source for next season.

Good news in the short-term for sure. Mention of "accelerated payments from the RFL" must be concerning, however, as you say.

[JonM]

16 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Mention of "accelerated payments from the RFL" must be concerning, however, as you say.

That suggests to me that there is at least enough money to see out the remaining 3 games.