Halifax skint

[Just Browny]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

That is just to get to the end of the season as well. What do they plan on doing for the 4 months after that, when they will have no income, before the season starts up again?

I'm not suggesting for a minute that Halifax are in anything but massive trouble, but that's not quite right is it. The off season is when the money should come in for season tickets, shirt sales etc, they wouldn't have 'no income'.

[The Blues Ox]

2 minutes ago, LeeF said:

I’m seriously struggling to understand those figures. It makes Whitehaven’s £14k, which was bad enough, seem like small change. 

And they reckon they have put 700k in this season as well. God knows where that money has gone because it didnt go on the squad or rent. I think it will come out that is another lie as well though.

[Click]

5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I'm sure some will be taken in by it. As someone posted on the Fax site, the Fax Trust seem to be just blindly handing money over that they are raising at this point which is just madness and is delaying the inevitable. Its just lie after lie at the moment.

That is insane to do.. They are saying they need almost 150k to finish out the year - There is 0% chance of raising that kind of money unless some mysterious secret millionaire fan came out of the woodwork. 

So all of that money being handed over is just wasting the money of whoever is donating it.

[gazza77]

2 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I'm not suggesting for a minute that Halifax are in anything but massive trouble, but that's not quite right is it. The off season is when the money should come in for season tickets, shirt sales etc, they wouldn't have 'no income'.

Would you fork out for a season ticket for next year given the current uncertainty? I wouldn't (if this was Fev).

[The Blues Ox]

4 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

The Halifax trust should be saving money in case needed to form new club

100%. The go fund me figure has actually dropped and some large donations have been withdrawn.

[LeeF]

5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I'm sure some will be taken in by it. As someone posted on the Fax site, the Fax Trust seem to be just blindly handing money over that they are raising at this point which is just madness and is delaying the inevitable. Its just lie after lie at the moment.

Who is the £250k owed to?

£80k is sort of vaguely explained but it’s a lot of wages or more accurately a massive amount of tax. 

[Just Browny]

Just now, gazza77 said:

Would you fork out for a season ticket for next year given the current uncertainty? I wouldn't (if this was Fev).

Well based on the info in that statement I don't think they will reach the stage of printing any season tickets, so no.

[LeeF]

3 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

And they reckon they have put 700k in this season as well. God knows where that money has gone because it didnt go on the squad or rent. I think it will come out that is another lie as well though.

So they’ve burnt through c£1m of excess spending ie not covered by income.

The Trust and anyone else need to see exactly where this money has been spent before handing over anything more

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I'm not suggesting for a minute that Halifax are in anything but massive trouble, but that's not quite right is it. The off season is when the money should come in for season tickets, shirt sales etc, they wouldn't have 'no income'.

Fair point. I can't see many people buying anything this side of new year though until the picture is clearer, you'd be crazy to the way things are

[The Blues Ox]

11 minutes ago, LeeF said:

Who is the £250k owed to?

£80k is sort of vaguely explained but it’s a lot of wages or more accurately a massive amount of tax. 

We have no idea. As was said on the previous page, the statement says a lot without really saying much.

[LeeF]

9 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

We have no idea. As was said on the previous page, the statement says a lot without really saying much.

I agree with everything you’ve posted on this thread. Without full clarity your conclusions are fully justified. 

[Sports Prophet]

7 hours ago, JonM said:

What do you suggest? It's a problem that affects other sports too, particularly non-league football, and there doesn't seem to be an obvious answer.

Very often, directors of our clubs are people with very little (or no) experience running an entertainment business, let alone one with all manner of employment, medical, stadium health and safety and other legal requirements. Many championship clubs will have one, or a few full-time employees running the club day to day. In some respects, amateur clubs have it better, because you hopefully have a group of volunteers with a much wider set of skills and knowledge who can take on things they're good at/ interested in. I think it's also the case that the amount of abuse and criticism directed towards those running pro clubs puts off a lot of people. 

My club, Widnes, had its most successful period as a members' club, owned by season-ticket holders who voted for a committee to run the club each year.  We had a good spell as a limited company under a chairman who got the new stadium built, communicated with fans well and seems to have been well regarded throughout the sport. Then a short spell with an owner with links to organised crime who used the club as a vehicle for VAT fraud and who also bankrupted a neighbouring soccer club. The reformed club was then owned by a local, genuinely wealthy benefactor who subsequently lost interest and moved down under, leaving behind a CEO whose actions bankrupted the club fairly quickly (side note, his 'leadership' podcast and blog seems not to mention his bankrupting a 120 year old institution beloved by tens of thousands of people, https://www.thelonelyleader.co.uk/blog ). The current board is essentially made of up of people who are lifelong fans, some with experience of coaching, playing or running amateur clubs, others with some business experience in other fields, none of them are particularly wealthy.

There's been a few attempts to move clubs to a supporter-owned model, but none of them really seem to have taken yet.

I think you have summed up exactly the issue. Widnes’ most successful period was when it was a true “club”, as in owned by the members.

A great community club will definitely call on volunteers from their network with particular skillsets. Championship clubs with shortcomings in particular fields should be doing the same thing. In fact if the Championship clubs, with all their financial challenges do not have a wide pool of volunteers and sponsors to fill the gaps, then that tells me the owner is putting their own best interests before the club.

It sounds to me like your current board have all the right intentions and I would love to see a club like Widnes resurrect themselves to become the beacon of the community which pulls in 7-8k fans a week.

[gazza77]

13 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think you have summed up exactly the issue. Widnes’ most successful period was when it was a true “club”, as in owned by the members.

A great community club will definitely call on volunteers from their network with particular skillsets. Championship clubs with shortcomings in particular fields should be doing the same thing. In fact if the Championship clubs, with all their financial challenges do not have a wide pool of volunteers and sponsors to fill the gaps, then that tells me the owner is putting their own best interests before the club.

It sounds to me like your current board have all the right intentions and I would love to see a club like Widnes resurrect themselves to become the beacon of the community which pulls in 7-8k fans a week.

Wasn't one of the requirements at the start of SL to be a limited company, rather than a private members club? I have in my mind that's when and why things changed at Fev, but might be a figment of my imagination.

[Gooleboy]

4 minutes ago, gazza77 said:

Wasn't one of the requirements at the start of SL to be a limited company, rather than a private members club? I have in my mind that's when and why things changed at Fev, but might be a figment of my imagination.

Correct as far as I can remember.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

That is just to get to the end of the season as well. What do they plan on doing for the 4 months after that, when they will have no income, before the season starts up again?

It says "end of the year" not season.

[gazza77]

26 minutes ago, Griff said:

It says "end of the year" not season.

Appreciating the timing of when contracts end and start, I wonder how many of the 25 season squad are potentially impacted if they don't make it to the end of 2024.

[JonM]

1 hour ago, gazza77 said:

Wasn't one of the requirements at the start of SL to be a limited company, rather than a private members club? I have in my mind that's when and why things changed at Fev, but might be a figment of my imagination.

Exactly right. 

[RigbyLuger]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

I'm sure some will be taken in by it. As someone posted on the Fax site, the Fax Trust seem to be just blindly handing money over that they are raising at this point which is just madness and is delaying the inevitable. Its just lie after lie at the moment.

Have we got to the players selling medals stage yet? Some fans can be so easily manipulated, and they know it.

[Griff]

7 hours ago, gazza77 said:

Appreciating the timing of when contracts end and start, I wonder how many of the 25 season squad are potentially impacted if they don't make it to the end of 2024.

Sure. End of year can mean a few things.

Season = September

Contract year = November

Accounting year = whenever that is

Calendar year = December

 

[iffleyox]

12 hours ago, gazza77 said:

Would you fork out for a season ticket for next year given the current uncertainty? I wouldn't (if this was Fev).

I would probably. I’d totally share your concerns, and I’d probably feel a bit sick as I did it (knowing it was in all probability throwing the money away) but if it was the club I’ve supported all my life (which ok in this instance is an RU club but that’s because I didn’t discover RL until I was 32 and the RL club I initially supported has already gone!) then I’d roll the dice. 

I’d feel guilty for the rest of my life if I didn’t, even if it was a futile gesture. That and bluntly a Moseley season ticket is £200 ish and I can just about afford to throw that away (as a one-off gesture).

Sports fans are not normal people, and I really feel for the Fax fans at the moment.

Edited September 7, 2024 by iffleyox

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

12 hours ago, gazza77 said:

Wasn't one of the requirements at the start of SL to be a limited company, rather than a private members club? I have in my mind that's when and why things changed at Fev, but might be a figment of my imagination.

I think you'll find it goes back further than that, back into the eighties. I remember it becoming a requirement as it was the only time I saw our calm and reasonable secretary  (as the post was called in those days) seriously out of his tree - 'they talk about it for five years the give us five <multiple expletives deleted> weeks to bring it in'.

[Mumby Magic]

After having years of it with Bradford, I feel for the Fax fans. You want to trust people who run the club yet this happens. 

You have to commend clubs of the nature of Batley who compete on a small budget yet we never hear of any financial struggles.

[ATLANTISMAN]

29 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

After having years of it with Bradford, I feel for the Fax fans. You want to trust people who run the club yet this happens. 

You have to commend clubs of the nature of Batley who compete on a small budget yet we never hear of any financial struggles.

That's because Kevin Nicholls is a shrewd cookie and the club also have a few revenue streams 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

58 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

I think you'll find it goes back further than that, back into the eighties. I remember it becoming a requirement as it was the only time I saw our calm and reasonable secretary  (as the post was called in those days) seriously out of his tree - 'they talk about it for five years the give us five <multiple expletives deleted> weeks to bring it in'.

Fev was definitely 1996. They and I think Dewsbury and Widnes were the last 3 clubs to change from 'membership' to PLC.

[Blind side johnny]

On 06/09/2024 at 07:25, Neutralfan7 said:

Have fax stated how much they need to make? 

When making appeals for money to save their clubs have any of these organisations ever issued a set of accounts to show their true position? Indeed do any RL clubs actually publish anything other than abbreviated accounts?

We all know the answer to this one I guess. In the murky sport of RL there is absolutely zero transparency from either clubs or the organisation itself, yet they are all too quick to set up appeals for the fans to bail them out. I wouldn't put a penny into any of these appeals unless I knew where it was going and the reason for the crisis.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Blind side johnny