Swap Salford for Toulouse

[Agbrigg]

2 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

York are fur coat and no knickers

Nowt up with that , especially after a few pints

[The 4 of Us]

15 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

The shame of it is it would've been a good call to make when IMG did their gradings last year - if only they'd considered a team going broke to be relevant! - but it's too late now and I don't think it'd be the right thing to do by Toulouse. They haven't had the chance to recruit, plan or train for a season in Super League and it's hard to see players based in Manchester being happy to just relocate to France immediately. Talk about setting a club up to fail! 

Both Salford and Castleford have managed to work the system to the effect that a sticking plaster has managed to squeeze them through to SL2025. Salford in respect of the current/past financial position and Cas in respect of £2m borrowed to literally carry their ground through with some fairly basic interim ground “improvements” 

If the aim is to grow SL then far more focus will need to be on 3-5 business plans and projections that clubs will be penalised for properly if they don’t comply. 
 

I like Salford and they have done well on the pitch in recent years, but the reality is that we now have a “lame duck” club that will do very well not to finish last in 2025. 
 

An opportunity meanwhile has been taken from Toulouse to grow the game in France. Hopefully they will come back bigger and better in 2026, when I suspect Salford’s financial status will come back to bite them, unless of course one of the professional Salford natives decide to dip into their reserves and actually buy the club. 

[Rene_Artois]

4 hours ago, Trojan Horse said:

I’d much rather York be given the chance.
 

I suspect they will be better placed than Toulouse in the next gradings end of this season as Toulouse’s average crowds drop off probably putting them well below 3k. They only just get over 2k I believe which I don’t think is sustainable. 

It will be Bulls or York coming into SL 2025. Finishing positions and 1895 could be the difference between them!

 

Assuming a lot there.

[DEANO]

19 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Not in 2020 they didn't, decided into the league by a panel, ahead of Bradford, York, Fev, Toulouse and London.

Aye I remember now. 

[DEANO]

What most people don’t realise is should Salford be relegated and a championship club promoted then would go straight back up the season after probably replacing the promoted championship club because of much higher scores from previous seasons

[Griff]

If this "debate" has shown anything, it's that calls for an increase in Superleague clubs to 14 - or even 20 - are pie in the sky.

We're struggling to put 12 together.

[Forever Trinity]

Swap Salford for Toulouse  no thanks there is already one too many teams from France in the League

[The Phantom Horseman]

It's always interesting to see these threads because they tend to get lots of posts from fans of SL clubs suggesting a team they'd like to be in SL, and quite often this seems to be based on zero knowledge of that club other than that it's based in the place where they most fancy an away day.

Let's be real: there are no clubs in the Championship that are anywhere near ready to jump into SL right now. I'll give a few examples.

Toulouse - for a couple of years they have made no secret of the fact that they are operating on lower budgets than the year they were in SL (or previously in the Championship) and this has shown in their recruitment. Last year they had a very thin squad numerically and it looks the same this year. They haven't updated their website squad list or to my knowledge published their squad yet, but as far as I know their only new additions announced to date are Rob Butler and Ellis Gillam (who is on trial), both of those will be good signings but we know they have lost Harrison Hansen, Guy Armitage, Siti Akauola, and Eloi Pelissier who were all regulars in their 17 last year. They will be very competitive in the Championship for sure but don't look to have the depth or financial muscle to make a fist of it at SL level.

Bradford - certainly seem have the strongest squad in the Championship on paper but the mystery of how their ground now seems to be deemed SL-ready remains. For years Bradford fans have acknowledged that the crumbling Odsal is in no way, shape or form suitable for SL, but with the IMG criteria focusing almost exclusively on broadcast/TV requirements, a new TV gantry and a new bar behind the stand appear to have miraculously transformed it into a SL-ready stadium which seems laughable to most Championship fans, whilst the pitch itself is only about 86m long and still seems to be extremely narrow.

York - a few years of steady progress but on and off the field I'm not quite sure they're there yet, after finishing third in the regular season in their first year back in 2019 they haven't matched that subsequently albeit they have been consistent, their crowds seem to have stalled too, they're probably at least year or two away still.

Fev - as has been well documented, went all out for promotion from a financial POV in the final year of P & R in the knowledge the new IMG gradings gave them little chance thereafter and it didn't pay off, and the club is still rebuilding having been in a not very healthy financial position at the start of 2024. there's some very good stuff going on off the field since Paddy Handley took over but might take a year or two at least before a SL challenge is realistic again.

Oldham - clearly have a big backer and have certainly flashed the cash in terms of signings but it's surely unrealistic to be talking about putting a club in SL before they have proved themselves at Championship level.

London - possible new backers on the horizon, but they are a shell of a club off the field and have been for many years. Mike Eccles worked wonders with them over the last two years but they have been stripped of most of their squad and regardless of new backers are going to need time to rebuild and re-establish themselves.

Edited January 17 by The Phantom Horseman

[Wellsy4HullFC]

4 hours ago, Griff said:

If this "debate" has shown anything, it's that calls for an increase in Superleague clubs to 14 - or even 20 - are pie in the sky.

We're struggling to put 12 together.

I assume none of those calls to expand were on the basis of the club being ready within a couple of weeks though.

[The Daddy]

55 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

It's always interesting to see these threads because they tend to get lots of posts from fans of SL clubs suggesting a team they'd like to be in SL, and quite often this seems to be based on zero knowledge of that club other than that it's based in the place where they most fancy an away day.

Let's be real: there are no clubs in the Championship that are anywhere near ready to jump into SL right now. I'll give a few examples.

Toulouse - for a couple of years they have made no secret of the fact that they are operating on lower budgets than the year they were in SL (or previously in the Championship) and this has shown in their recruitment. Last year they had a very thin squad numerically and it looks the same this year. They haven't updated their website squad list or to my knowledge published their squad yet, but as far as I know their only new additions announced to date are Rob Butler and Ellis Gillam (who are is on trial), both of those will be good signings but we know they have lost Harrison Hansen, Guy Armitage, Siti Akauola, and Eloi Pelissier who were all regulars in their 17 last year. They will be very competitive in the Championship for sure but don't look to have the depth or financial muscle to make a fist of it at SL level.

Bradford - certainly seem have the strongest squad in the Championship on paper but the mystery of how their ground now seems to be deemed SL-ready remains. For years Bradford fans have acknowledged that the crumbling Odsal is in way, shape or form suitable for SL, but with the IMG criteria focusing almost exclusively on broadcast/TV requirements, a new TV gantry and a new bar behind the stand appear to have miraculously transformed it into a SL-ready stadium which seems laughable to most Championship fans, whilst the pitch itself is only about 86m long and still seems to be extremely narrow.

York - a few years of steady progress but on and off the field I'm not quite sure they're there yet, after finishing third in the regular season in their first year back in 2019 they haven't matched that subsequently albeit they have been consistent, their crowds seem to have stalled too, they're probably at least year or two away still.

Fev - as has been well documented, went all out for promotion from a financial POV in the final year of P & R in the knowledge the new IMG gradings gave them little chance thereafter and it didn't pay off, and the club is still rebuilding having been in a not very healthy financial position at the start of 2024. there's some very good stuff going on off the field since Paddy Handley took over but might take a year or two at least before a SL challenge is realistic again.

Oldham - clearly have a big backer and have certainly flashed the cash in terms of signings but it's surely unrealistic to be talking about putting a club in SL before they have proved themselves at Championship level.

London - possible new backers on the horizon, but they are a shell of a club off the field and have been for many years. Mike Eccles worked wonders with them over the last two years but they have been stripped of most of their squad and regardless of new backers are going to need time to rebuild and re-establish themselves.

Absolute nonsense  

[The Phantom Horseman]

19 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Absolute nonsense  

Well argued

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Absolute nonsense  

You put forward very in depth points of view to argue with the poster.

[The Daddy]

2 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Well argued

My pleasure  

[The Daddy]

37 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

You put forward very in depth points of view to argue with the poster.

All you need to know is London are coming back to claim our rightful place in SL

[The Phantom Horseman]

5 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

My pleasure  

Perhaps given my post was a long one you could pick out maybe two or three of my statements that you consider to be "absolute nonsense", explaining why you think so? Not much point to forums otherwise is there?

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I assume none of those calls to expand were on the basis of the club being ready within a couple of weeks though.

Two weeks or two years - there won't be enough in 2027 either.

[Dullish Mood]

7 hours ago, Forever Trinity said:

Swap Salford for Toulouse  no thanks there is already one too many teams from France in the League

Up the Trin

[Dullish Mood]

9 hours ago, Griff said:

If this "debate" has shown anything, it's that calls for an increase in Superleague clubs to 14 - or even 20 - are pie in the sky.

We're struggling to put 12 together.

Struggling for 10 in all honesty mate.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

6 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

It's always interesting to see these threads because they tend to get lots of posts from fans of SL clubs suggesting a team they'd like to be in SL, and quite often this seems to be based on zero knowledge of that club other than that it's based in the place where they most fancy an away day.

Great assessment and the highlighted sentence in particular is very true, along with how well a club fits any person's outlook on expansion. Add a fairly new stadium (no matter how suitable) and you've got the new SL club dream ticket.

York always seem to be a big beneficiary of this mindset with them being in a lovely location and a city not quite in the heartlands with a new stadium despite the fact they still look a fair way off in a lot of areas such as fanbase and on-field.

[DEANO]

1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Great assessment and the highlighted sentence in particular is very true, along with how well a club fits any person's outlook on expansion. Add a fairly new stadium (no matter how suitable) and you've got the new SL club dream ticket.

York always seem to be a big beneficiary of this mindset with them being in a lovely location and a city not quite in the heartlands with a new stadium despite the fact they still look a fair way off in a lot of areas such as fanbase and on-field.

Fan base and on field are not really arguments are they. Crowds would go up and the championship winning side would sign for other championship clubs

[The Daddy]

5 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Perhaps given my post was a long one you could pick out maybe two or three of my statements that you consider to be "absolute nonsense", explaining why you think so? Not much point to forums otherwise is there?

It's the usual pessimistic and negative ###### from you that youve posted before just in long form this time

[The Phantom Horseman]

24 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

It's the usual pessimistic and negative ###### from you that youve posted before just in long form this time

What? I'm just stating my opinion, tell me which parts are incorrect? I don't think any of the current Championship teams are close to being SL ready ( whereas for instance I definitely thought Wakefield were, on and off the pitch).

And anyone who reads my ramblings on here knows that I'm positive about plenty of stuff.

Could it be, perchance, that I said something you didn't like about your team(s)?

[The Daddy]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

What? I'm just stating my opinion, tell me which parts are incorrect? I don't think any of the current Championship teams are close to being SL ready ( whereas for instance I definitely thought Wakefield were, on and off the pitch).

And anyone who reads my ramblings on here knows that I'm positive about plenty of stuff.

Could it be, perchance, that I said something you didn't like about your team(s)?

They're not any less ready than Salford or Castleford. You're really overestimating the current level of SL both on and off the pitch and the fact that the only thing that separates the health, ambition and success of most RL clubs is whether someone wealthy is prepared to bankroll it. 

Do you think that without Ken Davy Huddersfield would be any better than the Championship clubs you claimed aren't ready for SL? 

Do you think that if Hull FC hadn't found benefactors they would be in any better health than those Championship clubs? 

Wakefield were on the brink before someone came in to rescue them recently. 

Fact is most SL clubs without the generosity of a benefactor are not sustainable and the current level of most SL clubs aren't much greater than the top Championship clubs. That's the current reality. 

[Wilderspoolmemories]

Isn't York an option?

[sweaty craiq]

On 16/01/2025 at 18:09, The 4 of Us said:

Both Salford and Castleford have managed to work the system to the effect that a sticking plaster has managed to squeeze them through to SL2025. Salford in respect of the current/past financial position and Cas in respect of £2m borrowed to literally carry their ground through with some fairly basic interim ground “improvements” 

If the aim is to grow SL then far more focus will need to be on 3-5 business plans and projections that clubs will be penalised for properly if they don’t comply. 
 

I like Salford and they have done well on the pitch in recent years, but the reality is that we now have a “lame duck” club that will do very well not to finish last in 2025. 
 

An opportunity meanwhile has been taken from Toulouse to grow the game in France. Hopefully they will come back bigger and better in 2026, when I suspect Salford’s financial status will come back to bite them, unless of course one of the professional Salford natives decide to dip into their reserves and actually buy the club. 

France has had a SL club for nearly 20 years - it still hasn’t got a tv deal that pays cash