Burgess leaves Bath

[pahars]

I can understand why Barnes, Dawson and Guscott might irritate you. But why does Moore irritate you?

Actually that's a fair point, it's him as a person that irritates me but he doesn't have an anti RL agenda.

[Bearman]

His biography will be a must read for me.

[Griff9of13]

Spotted this on Facebook:

 

For non rugby fans out there wondering about the Sam Burgess fiasco let me try to explain

 

Imagine Hollyoaks persuading Robert De Niro to join the show
Then expressing surprise that his acting technique didn't match the rest of the cast
Then not giving him any dialogue until he managed to adapt his acting style
Then wondering why the show is still ######
Then blaming Robert De Niro because the show is still ######
Then Robert De Niro gets a call from Russell Crowe who says "###### it Bob, come back & join the A listers"

 

Welcome back Sam

 

 

[Yosser]

 Thanks for posting that Griff.  Brilliant analogue. For me a genuine LOL moment

[swann5]

What is a average rugby union player Gordon Darcy making comments about a  player he could not lace the boots of . stick to talking about kick tennis not a real sport rugby league.

[Tonka]

Be interested to hear what my favourite bigot Stuart Barnes has to say?He loves Bashing RL.It will all be Sams fault!At least Will Greenwood says Rugby Union has let Sam down!

Funnily enough I always think Barnes comes across as having a lot of respect for league.  His article in the Times today however does a pretty poor job at distinguishing between England RU's stupid decision to play a rugby league forward at centre and the team's generally average playing abilities.  But there we are; I don't think anybody sensible, from a union or league background, thinks Burgess was the reason England RU didn't progress the RUWC.

[C H Calthrop]

Spotted this on Facebook:

 

 

Somebody send this to John Wilkin so that tomorrow if asked he can have an idea fresh in his mind.

[Exiled Wiganer]

God - what will Wilkin make of it?

" 'umble little old us are 'umbly grateful to them upstairs for lettin' one of our own come back below stairs... We're sorry to have made any trouble, sir, won't 'appen again..."

[redjonn]

As I read through some comments the word ironic seems to come to mind.... with regards to comments to RU sportsmen and journalists whom question whether Burgess should have been chosen for the England RU squad and whether he performed at centre when they consider better alternatives given Burgess had only played a few games for Bath and was then decided he was better suited to flanker. They query the coach and identify some parts of play where they think an experienced centre may have done better.

 

I could pick lots of incidences but I'll limited myself to one similar. That is our recent RLWC.

 

Now many people on here where very assertive  that the coach had made the wrong choices, particular with regard to Sinfield and Chase.    They bashed away in each game of examples why they didn't think they where the right choice. In fact often very negative towards the two players.  Come the semi final aftermath..... many identified some situations that in effect blamed Sinfield... namely his field kick and his coming out of the line... They where blaming him for the loss, some would say using him as the scapegoat in focusing on those two incidents.

 

Now we read similar in RU world and we get on our high horse as if we never do that.   I also noted that some RU journalist wanted Eastmond to be chosen as the centre for England RU... you know a former RL player.  But lets fit it into a narrative we love and not be as objective in criticizing some comments which are deserved but need better analysis.

 

Does anyone think that Sam should have been chosen for England RU as a centre having played only about 20 games of RU, most in a different position (flanker) and only 3 or 4 as centre, none for England and then one short stint during the pre-world cup games. Thus preventing other more experienced centres from achieving a life long ambition. It was a odd selection and deserves criticism. Unfortunately it involves our big Sam and can sometimes look as if the man is being attacked.

[Griff9of13]

As I read through some comments the word ironic seems to come to mind.... with regards to comments to RU sportsmen and journalists whom question whether Burgess should have been chosen for the England RU squad and whether he performed at centre when they consider better alternatives given Burgess had only played a few games for Bath and was then decided he was better suited to flanker. They query the coach and identify some parts of play where they think an experienced centre may have done better.

 

I could pick lots of incidences but I'll limited myself to one similar. That is our recent RLWC.

 

Now many people on here where very assertive  that the coach had made the wrong choices, particular with regard to Sinfield and Chase.    They bashed away in each game of examples why they didn't think they where the right choice. In fact often very negative towards the two players.  Come the semi final aftermath..... many identified some situations that in effect blamed Sinfield... namely his field kick and his coming out of the line... They where blaming him for the loss, some would say using him as the scapegoat in focusing on those two incidents.

 

Now we read similar in RU world and we get on our high horse as if we never do that.   I also noted that some RU journalist wanted Eastmond to be chosen as the centre for England RU... you know a former RL player.  But lets fit it into a narrative we love and not be as objective in criticizing some comments which are deserved but need better analysis.

 

Does anyone think that Sam should have been chosen for England RU as a centre having played only about 20 games of RU, most in a different position (flanker) and only 3 or 4 as centre, none for England and then one short stint during the pre-world cup games. Thus preventing other more experienced centres from achieving a life long ambition. It was a odd selection and deserves criticism. Unfortunately it involves our big Sam and can sometimes look as if the man is being attacked.

 

Had he made errors that directly lead to England losing in the games he played, then fair enough. However, what happened was the numpties chose to blame him for the Wales defeat despite England holding the lead until his departure, when Wales scored a try in the very channel he'd been playing in until he went off. And he was also blamed, to a lesser extent, for the defeat against Australia even though he wasn't on the pitch until England were completely out of it. That's why all us leaguies are being so defensive; not just because he was being criticised, but because he was being completely unfairly criticised for things he didn't actually do. 

 

Edit to add:

 

If the union hacks tried being realistic they would realise that the poor England performance lays squarely at the feet of the teams lumbering, useless pack. They couldn't control the set piece; they even got destroyed by the Aussies in the scrum! And they couldn't compete at the break down, either giving away pointless penalties or possession. On the odd occasion when they did manage to recycle the ball you could time the pass to the backs from the breakdown with a sundial. 

[damp squib]

Thanks for this.

This is the predominant view on the Rugby Union forum I moderate. The feelings over whether Lancaster should go after the RUWC before this were mixed before the Burgess news was confirmed. Most people do now seem very unhappy with the the RFU.

Also I would like to point out Ian Robertson is unbearable and seemed to know little about the wider game outside the home nations during the RUWC

When you wrote that I agreed with you but I think it has changed somewhat since the official announcement that he's leaving.

I'm not sure it's the same forum but I've seen a huge amount of vitriol posted about him on a Union forum since then.

[Leeds Wire]

There was an awful phone-in on Radio 5 this morning, saved at the very end by an eloquent and informed contribution by Martyn Sadler.

 

Up to that point we had to endure some nauseating quotes like "Burgess was a draughts player trying to play chess", but then Mr Sadler literally left everyone speechless and ended what had seemed like an hour-long charade on a very high note.  

 

Well done Martyn.

 

Listen again at 56 minutes

[WearyRhino]

There was an awful phone-in on Radio 5 this morning, saved at the very end by an eloquent and informed contribution by Martyn Sadler.

 

Up to that point we had to endure some nauseating quotes like "Burgess was a draughts player trying to play chess", but then Mr Sadler literally left everyone speechless and ended what had seemed like an hour-long charade on a very high note.  

 

Well done Martyn.

 

Listen again at 56 minutes

 

Yep, the boy (sic!) Sadler done well!

[C H Calthrop]

There was an awful phone-in on Radio 5 this morning, saved at the very end by an eloquent and informed contribution by Martyn Sadler.

 

Up to that point we had to endure some nauseating quotes like "Burgess was a draughts player trying to play chess", but then Mr Sadler literally left everyone speechless and ended what had seemed like an hour-long charade on a very high note.  

 

Well done Martyn.

 

Listen again at 56 minutes

I believe the colloquial turn of phrase is "dealt with like a boss". 

[Railway End]

I'm sick of hearing how hard done to Burrell and Eastmond were because Sam got a centre spot.

Sam wasn't the worst England Centre, that honour went to Brad Barritt by a long way!

There are English flankers out there better than Robshaw, but I here no outrage about them being denied their rightful place at the WC either.

[Ackroman]

Yep, the boy (sic!) Sadler done well!

 

Indeed. The premise up that point was that Burgess wasn't good enough to play centre and that it was the lack of a coherent plan on the part of Bath, the RFU and the England Coaching set-up that allowed Burgess to play at 12 and not 6. And in fact even got near the England set-up. The nuances being so complicated that it takes years. WOW. All I can say is that these Union types must be thick.

 

Martyn quite rightly pointed out that Burgess had earned the shirt and made a very telling contribution to the team. He pointed out that the real mistake was Lancaster not actually sticking with Burgess.

 

The lack of a response just showed what little technical knowledge of the sport actually exists by neither the fans or pundits of RU that were on that show.

 

But what stuck in my craw about the whole piece on 5live was the opening explanation of the saga by the sports reporter Chris, who made an embarrassing effort to parody Burgess making the decision to carry on playing with a broken cheekbone in the 2014 NRL Grand Final. His attempt at a "Northern Accent" was an embarassment.

[Futtocks]

There was an awful phone-in on Radio 5 this morning, saved at the very end by an eloquent and informed contribution by Martyn Sadler.

 

Up to that point we had to endure some nauseating quotes like "Burgess was a draughts player trying to play chess", but then Mr Sadler literally left everyone speechless and ended what had seemed like an hour-long charade on a very high note.  

 

Well done Martyn.

 

Listen again at 56 minutes

There was a slightly shocked silence at the end of Martyn's contribution, but I didn't hear anyone disagreeing with his points.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Did anyone mention the Kiwi games in any of this?

[RLX111]

There was a slightly shocked silence at the end of Martyn's contribution, but I didn't hear anyone disagreeing with his points.

Impressive!

[C H Calthrop]

There was a slightly shocked silence at the end of Martyn's contribution, but I didn't hear anyone disagreeing with his points.

There was and genuinely too. When there is a voice that contradicts they find themselves wanting.

[WearyRhino]

The reality is that had Sam stayed in union his every move, on and off the field, would have been under the microscope for the foreseeable future. Both his union supporters and detractors would have examined every subtlety and nuance ad nauseum to prove what a great/bad union player he is. His life would have been a misery endured in the spotlight without the support network of his family. Under all that scrutiny he might have survived another year of mediocrity at Bath but I'm fairly certain he would have been heading 'home' to Rugby League this time next year no matter what. After another year out of Rugby League his skills and fitness would have been greatly diminished, his opportunity of accumulating 'legendary Rugby League status points' stolen of a year and his market value probably halved. It seems he's had better advice over the last few weeks than he had 18 months ago.

 

Rugby League and rugby union are different sports which utilise similar skills, some might be good at both, but you wouldn't expect Phil Taylor to be any good a throwing a javelin. Ultimately, Sam was an F1 car participating in a 'driving at 10mph over speed bumps' competition.

 

Anyway, there's a game of Rugby League on tomorrow!

[Futtocks]

There was and genuinely too. When there is a voice that contradicts they find themselves wanting.

I wonder if Nicky Campbell was expecting his phone-in to be capped off by a dissenting voice, and in such an emphatic manner?  

[Hvy wg]

Union fans are plain dumb. They had the game won against Wales until Burgess came out. Then, and only then, the Welsh centre destroyed them. 

Burgess' physicality stopped his opposite number all game long and they didn't notice that. Burgess would have been golden to play against Nonu/SBW but England didn't make it. 

He certainly lacked technique but what he lacked in technique he mastered in presence. Against France, he crushed Swzarzewski, Dumoulin and got the upper hand on Debaty so France never went his side to attack because they knew they would get crushed.

 

[C H Calthrop]

I wonder if Nicky Campbell was expecting his phone-in to be capped off by a dissenting voice, and in such an emphatic manner?

Well no I don't think so. When MS introduces himself you can hear some other disembodied voice over the microphone. I wish I knew what it was saying.

[WearyRhino]

Well no I don't think so. When MS introduces himself you can hear some other disembodied voice over the microphone. I wish I knew what it was saying.

 

I'd be interested to know whether Martyn identified himself to the programme researcher, or whoever handles the calls, or whether he preferred to introduce himself on air for fear of being sifted out.