Proposal put forward to cut SL to 10

[Bob8]

9 hours ago, SL17 said:

The Sky money shouldn't be paying the wages. That should be a bonus not something relied on.

Which rather ignores that Super League is a TV product for Sky TV.

[RS]

14 teams for me, we should be aiming for the maximum number of teams reasonably feasible for our top league. 14 teams would have at least ten English towns or citys represented. 

[sweaty craiq]

17 hours ago, JohnM said:

paper talk, absolutely, yes,  though Sweaty Craig has been going on about it for quite some time. Could that be beacuse of his..er..er..Leigh links?

I'm attracted to the idea,  if, raised to the power of if..... and that's a lot of ifs as I have counted many ifs already.

I advise the RFL on commercial matters whilst meeting Sky on a regular basis via my advertising business, I introduced this to the RFL/SL in 2009 as the inclusive way forward,  unfortunately the luddites on here cant grasp the concept or the maths - exciting times ahead for the new transatlantic two tier comp - which will be structured to expand to 2x 12 within a decade

[sweaty craiq]

11 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

So my question is what will happen to the clubs outside those 20?

They will form a highly competitive PT structure of similar sized clubs from which those with facilities and financial muscle will want to win a place in the FT structure. I can see the larger amateur clubs becoming part of this structure outside SL also.

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

I advise the RFL on commercial matters whilst meeting Sky on a regular basis via my advertising business, I introduced this to the RFL/SL in 2009 as the inclusive way forward,  unfortunately the luddites on here cant grasp the concept or the maths - exciting times ahead for the new transatlantic two tier comp - which will be structured to expand to 2x 12 within a decade

Would 'SL2' be televised by Sky or ignored?

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Would 'SL2' be televised by Sky or ignored?

Depends who was in it I suppose. Within a couple of years SL2 could potentially have a Hull or a Warrington or a Widnes in there the same as SL1 could have a Toulouse or Toronto or London. I suppose that is the idea - along the lines of the Cricket County Championship. I'm not sure I am sold on it but one thing is for sure there is no way we have central cash for 20 clubs. So if the handouts are similar to what we have now you will still have a Batley or Sheffield or Halifax surviving on crumbs in a SL2 at the outset.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

I advise the RFL on commercial matters whilst meeting Sky on a regular basis via my advertising business, I introduced this to the RFL/SL in 2009 as the inclusive way forward,  unfortunately the luddites on here cant grasp the concept or the maths - exciting times ahead for the new transatlantic two tier comp - which will be structured to expand to 2x 12 within a decade

Non now, dont go upsetting the luddites (see also the Ralph Rimmer thread).

Better to just carry on as we are, no need for change, everything's just fine with the game dont you know !

[Man of Kent]

20 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Depends who was in it I suppose. Within a couple of years SL2 could potentially have a Hull or a Warrington or a Widnes in there the same as SL1 could have a Toulouse or Toronto or London. I suppose that is the idea - along the lines of the Cricket County Championship. I'm not sure I am sold on it but one thing is for sure there is no way we have central cash for 20 clubs. So if the handouts are similar to what we have now you will still have a Batley or Sheffield or Halifax surviving on crumbs in a SL2 at the outset.

Derek Beaumont's idea on BBC Manchester the other week - which The Sun article appears to have lifted wholesale  - was just that.

The 10 SL1 clubs could get £2m a year, the 10 SL2 clubs £1m. Assuming the money is there from TV (not just Sky) and sponsorship etc.

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

They will form a highly competitive PT structure of similar sized clubs from which those with facilities and financial muscle will want to win a place in the FT structure. I can see the larger amateur clubs becoming part of this structure outside SL also.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Bearing in mind that Rochdale had a bucket collection last night just to make ends meet, having had a couple of postponements, I'd say that plenty of clubs are living pretty much hand-to-mouth. Then you've got League 1 clubs just about getting by with £100 match payments and negligible crowds.

What's the turnover at a club such as Coventry or Hunslet? Can't be all that much more than the £70K central funding, surely? If that gets pulled, as is being proposed, I really don't see how those clubs can be part of a 'highly competitive PT structure'...

[Man of Kent]

I think we probably will need to carve out the full-time clubs but SL2 would need to be widely televised/publicised, perhaps with live games on Saturdays/Sundays on free-to-air as well as Sky.

 

 

[Mushy]

If you doubled the money in the sport you’d still have clubs going under - take a look at the NRL club finances despite vastly more revenue than in the UK. 

Clubs are historically very poor at managing finances and regardless of where any club ends up they will need to cut their cloth accordingly. The level of funding just provides a level below which teams have to be part time or a blend of part time.

Clubs in League 1 without any central funding might end up as semi-amateur, and that’s not necessarily any bad thing. 

Generating more income at the top level is more to do with being able to attract and retain exciting talent against rival comps/codes, which makes a lot of sense however you achieve it. 

[Scubby]

So who would be brave enough to vote for 3 clubs to be relegated from the existing SL clubs (assuming there would be at least one promotion spot)? Or a middle 8s with just 2 places available. It would take squeaky bum time to a whole new level. 

[Bob8]

I think the supports will be in two groups, those who imagine a SL1 of:

Castleford
Huddersfield
Hull
Hull KR
Leeds
St Helens
Wakefield
Warrington
Widnes
Wigan

and those who imagine:

Bradford
Catalans
Hull
Leeds
New York
St Helens
Toronto
Toulouse
Warrington
Wigan
 

[Angelic Cynic]

17 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

I think the supports will be in two groups, those who imagine a SL1 of:

Castleford
Huddersfield
Hull
Hull KR
Leeds
St Helens
Wakefield
Warrington
Widnes
Wigan

and those who imagine:

Bradford
Catalans
Hull
Leeds
New York
St Helens
Toronto
Toulouse
Warrington
Wigan
 

   No Leigh? Interesting.

[geoffcooke]

All the real money for rugby (tv rights, sponsorship money from national/international companies) goes to RU. RL can't rival Six Nations or Aviva Premiership etc. Best bet for the SL sides is to go back to 1894 and re-unite the two codes.

The rest of us can go back to being semi-pro and compete on a level playing field under RL rules administered by people who really care about traditional values

Just a thought.

[JohnM]

You almost have a point there.  "All the real money for rugby (tv rights, sponsorship money from national/international companies) goes to RU."

Need more info about traditional values, though. Exactly what do you mean?

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, JohnM said:

You almost have a point there.  "All the real money for rugby (tv rights, sponsorship money from national/international companies) goes to RU."

The rest is more about traditional values such a diptheria, polio, rickets, tin baths, tetanus, pneumoconiosis, etc etc, I'm afraid

RBS certainly found a few quid for the oval ball game in the months after the financial meltdown 

[SSoutherner]

RU is having exactly the same conversations of ringfencing the PRL and the Championship not being able to compete http://www.rolling-maul.com/championship-structure-debate_topic16092.html LondonIrish going straight back down and Bristol back up after 1 season down will only strengthen the aurgument that few teams can make it at the top table unless already there.

 

It is not the total amount of money that is the problem really it is how unevenly that pot is doled out which perpetuates the effective ring fencing of SL / PRL

[Krzzystuff]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

   No Leigh? Interesting.

Must be judging them on the three games they played so far.

[Krzzystuff]

4 hours ago, RS said:

14 teams for me, we should be aiming for the maximum number of teams reasonably feasible for our top league. 14 teams would have at least ten English towns or citys represented. 

it would have to be the end of the 8's with 14 because there will be too many games. Season needs to be shortened and started later as well. Player rest and all....plus give TWP time to get our field open 

[Bob8]

5 minutes ago, Krzzystuff said:

Must be judging them on the three games they played so far.

Barrow look like Champs

[newbe]

Talking to a match commissioner last Sunday he said they are finished in league 1 in a month, and not needing to having charted physios now, it looks like the league being slowly being deregulated. Worrying signs,  recond it looks like amateur days for a lot of teams after they have sorted S/L in what ever format they decide. 

[The Dude]

How many teams are full-time right now?

[Angelic Cynic]

25 minutes ago, newbe said:

Talking to a match commissioner last Sunday he said they are finished in league 1 in a month, and not needing to having charted physios now, it looks like the league being slowly being deregulated. Worrying signs,  recond it looks like amateur days for a lot of teams after they have sorted S/L in what ever format they decide. 

Where will the players be coming from to fill the 2 Top Leagues?

New York - Toronto will require some for years to come,some of the great and good in this country go without reserve sides and some without Academies,and some use dual reg.

Will the two top divisions be dual reg with each other?  

How will the coaches be developed?

How many players,since Super League was invented,have come straight from the amateur game?

Very worrying...

[Man of Kent]

30 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I think there's massive question going unaddressed here.

What is SL2 for? What's it's purpose? What's it's role here? What value does it add to our product? What niche is it serving?

Are we saying there is a sizeable market out there for lower league rugby league that currently isn't being served by the championship? 

Very valid question. A second tier is a second tier.

I guess the point is it would accommodate new franchises (hate that word) while allowing P&R and not having smallish but viable heartland FT clubs like Wakey die. 

Having a full-time Super League 2 should - should - be more attractive to broadcasters than a mixed FT/PT Championship, especially as there will likely be some big clubs in there.

Sadly clubs like Batley and Dewsbury would be the losers, but they may have a leading role in a new part-time league.

I notice the Batley chairman has already made moves on that front...