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John Drake

23 Jun: Test Match: England v New Zealand (Denver)

England v New Zealand (Denver)  

160 members have voted

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  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      51
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      68
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      23
    • Draw
      3
    • New Zealand by 1 to 6 points
      3
    • New Zealand by 7 to 12 points
      8
    • New Zealand by 13 points or more
      4
  2. 2. Guess the attendance

    • Less than 5,000
      3
    • 5,000 to 9,999
      13
    • 10,000 to 14,999
      19
    • 15,000 to 19,999
      41
    • 20,000 to 24,999
      54
    • 25,000 to 29,999
      24
    • 30,000 to 40,000
      4
    • Over 40,000
      2

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  • Poll closed on 23/06/18 at 20:10

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1 minute ago, Random tiger said:

Surely his complaint should be directed at NZRL? England had no problem getting their players back to Aus in time for their NRL games

Also, the NRL could have scheduled all their games Saturday & Sunday following the rep weekend to allow more rest time for the International Players & SOO players. 

It shouldn’t be a reason to abandon the concept but work with it and adjust logistics accordingly for next year

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Well we never got the 25 000 I wanted but 19 000 ain't bad and it shows where we are starting at...but it is a start make no doubt about it....one of the biggest steps has been taken.

I honestly feel that if a new franchise is announced then the future international should be in that city to help solidify the base for the new club and promote the game....there seems to be an overall strategy lacking, a all partners cohesion if you will.

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2 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Well we never got the 25 000 I wanted but 19 000 ain't bad and it shows where we are starting at...but it is a start make no doubt about it....one of the biggest steps has been taken.

I honestly feel that if a new franchise is announced then the future international should be in that city to help solidify the base for the new club and promote the game....there seems to be an overall strategy lacking, a all partners cohesion if you will.

It should have really been held in Toronto, the nearest two American RL clubs are 1250 & 1500 miles away (Atlanta and Jacksonville respectively) from Denver. Ideally the promoter would have shelled out a few grand to have a couple of people over there helping to set up a RL part of at least two RU clubs, and then at the game promoted those two clubs heavily, so that people with an interest in RL after the game could either sign up to play, or go to watch it. 

It's very similar to the RFL's strategy. Step one: hold a very successful game in Bristol, step two: award a franchise in L1 to Oxford the year after. Step three: ????? Step four: act mystified as both places severely struggle. There's not an awful lot of joined up thinking going on.

Edited by Chamey
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18 minutes ago, Chamey said:

It should have really been held in Toronto, the nearest two American RL clubs are 1250 & 1500 miles away (Atlanta and Jacksonville respectively) from Denver. Ideally the promoter would have shelled out a few grand to have a couple of people over there helping to set up a RL part of at least two RU clubs, and then at the game promoted those two clubs heavily, so that people with an interest in RL after the game could either sign up to play, or go to watch it. 

It's very similar to the RFL's strategy. Step one: hold a very successful game in Bristol, step two: award a franchise in L1 to Oxford the year after. Step three: ????? Step four: act mystified as both places severely struggle. There's not an awful lot of joined up thinking going on.

Are they really that disorganized?  Is that really the state of affairs because if it is they need a shakeup and TWP could very well be the best thing that ever happened to Rugby League...a whole new way of thinking.

I think the ideas in your post are very good.  If the game had been held in Toronto it would have generated so much buzz that it would have solidified the Toronto franchise permanently in the mindset of new Toronto fans.

Then next year a new expansion franchise and another international test fort that city...it just makes a more well thought out plan is all.  World Cup in 2025 so 6 years and 5 or 6 clubs over here....it just makes sense.

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49 minutes ago, Chamey said:

It should have really been held in Toronto, the nearest two American RL clubs are 1250 & 1500 miles away (Atlanta and Jacksonville respectively) from Denver. Ideally the promoter would have shelled out a few grand to have a couple of people over there helping to set up a RL part of at least two RU clubs, and then at the game promoted those two clubs heavily, so that people with an interest in RL after the game could either sign up to play, or go to watch it. 

It's very similar to the RFL's strategy. Step one: hold a very successful game in Bristol, step two: award a franchise in L1 to Oxford the year after. Step three: ????? Step four: act mystified as both places severely struggle. There's not an awful lot of joined up thinking going on.

You're overlooking the fact that the Mountain time zone enabled an ideal kickoff time both for locals and for TV, and they got the Denver Broncos to help promote the event.  You also need to stop thinking about developing RL from RU clubs;  unless those clubs switch lock and barrel to RL it's not a productive approach.  Most of the amateur expansion in Britain has involved RU clubs and players, and it hasn't amounted to much has it?  A successful World Cup in the US depends on attracting gridiron fans, even if there were enough RU followers over here (which there aren't), they tend to be hostile rather than receptive.

25 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

Are they really that disorganized?  Is that really the state of affairs because if it is they need a shakeup and TWP could very well be the best thing that ever happened to Rugby League...a whole new way of thinking.

I think the ideas in your post are very good.  If the game had been held in Toronto it would have generated so much buzz that it would have solidified the Toronto franchise permanently in the mindset of new Toronto fans.

Then next year a new expansion franchise and another international test fort that city...it just makes a more well thought out plan is all.  World Cup in 2025 so 6 years and 5 or 6 clubs over here....it just makes sense.

Do you need to ask that question?  I would say that the total quiet on the expansion front after we heard that the RFL had several expressions of interest says a lot about their inability to manage the inclusion of these new teams.

If that match had been in Toronto, do you think MLSE would have got behind it even to the same extent as the Broncos did in Denver?

Edited by Big Picture

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8 hours ago, Random tiger said:

Surely  Asofasolomona has a cell phone.Bellamy  joining the anti chorus, that's his excuse  for  being  against the next game.

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Quoting NRL coaches is a mystery to me, as if they will ever find anything positive to say. 

On the other hand, I'm interested in what Jason Moore has to say:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/league/rugby-league-arrived-in-north-america-promoter-calls-more-tests-after-kiwis-clash

"The main thing was to showcase the game to a as many people as we could in this market.

"Yes there is room for improvement, yes we can do things better next time and we will but this is the first step in a journey. Rugby league has now arrived in North America.

"The most important thing for us is that do it again and again and again. This is just the beginning."

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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Has anyone spared a thought for the Touch Judge & Video ref they will have to officiate again next week after the trip of a lifetime... um er i mean officiated a game at altitude and endured a grueling return flight!

Ryan Hall try was a fumble perhaps it was awarded in sympathy for another try that should have been awarded to him and England against Australia a few years ago. Luckily for New Zealand I dont think the try being awarded or not would have impacted the result of the game, It was a bad call but England still would have won either way. 

It is Strange that the NRL are prepared to pay for RLPA representative Clint Newton to fly to Denver yet have not invested anything into the local game in NZ. New Zealand is a source of revenue for the NRL, where the local game is struggling, 30% of all NRL players have a NZ background and there is even a NZ based NRL club. The NRL is attempting to stop this game or have it moved next year but i dont know if the financial arrangement will still be on offer if the game is moved to a different time of year. The Kiwi's games are the only direct money earner the game in NZ has available.

If the Game is held in Denver a good marketing angle would be around the botching of the NZ Anthem, maybe the KIwi's players could work with the singer to help her right a wrong and the game could get some positive media attention out of it.

Edited by kiwis 13 6
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On 6/26/2018 at 12:04 AM, Futtocks said:

Because, according to a Sydney hack with nothing to do but spread poison, it takes a whole decade to fly that far.

Indeed, if anyone thinks that British journo are crass and thick then take a look at Aussie newspapers... add in brain dead.

Edited by Rupert Prince
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On 6/25/2018 at 1:18 PM, MZH said:

I was very surprised how quickly it was given. When they looked from behind it wasnt obvious either way, there was a hint of a bobble and you would have expected them to check all angles based on that, but it was just given straight away. Had they checked the side angle it would have been disallowed for sure.

Was he not in touch with his fingertips? 

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On 6/26/2018 at 4:06 AM, Dunbar said:

Yes, he is a Kangaroo and he is a good player.

But he is 32 and he has won 3 Australian caps. My point is that he is a good player but not a great one and the fact he is the dominent half back in Origin this year is demonstrative of the half backs in the Australian game being at a relatively low ebb.

And also that Widdop would be in an Origin team if eligible and probably a Kangaroo shirt as well this year.

You do realise he had a couple of Legends in front of him for a Kangaroo spot?

It wasn't a vacant position for him to slide into.

I rarely answer to these sort of replies where everyone slides in for a dig with their own  half baked opinions.

Maloney has had a fantastic career and is still at the top of his game with Penrith, I would have him over Widdop every day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maloney_(rugby_league)

Ben Hunt had the worst game of his life last Sunday, I am not a fan of his but he has had a lot to do with the Dragons success this  season.
He was rated in the Oz media a 3/10 for his performance and was the largest factor for Qld loss.
I have seen Widdop rated the same by England fans not that long ago.

His kicking game is often suspect and his team control can leave lot to be desired.

But hey , opinions are like Bums, we all have one.

Edited by Allora
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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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10 hours ago, Big Picture said:

If that match had been in Toronto, do you think MLSE would have got behind it even to the same extent as the Broncos did in Denver?

It would be the Wolfpack that they need to get behind it...don't ever put any eggs in the basket of MLSE...they will steal the eggs and return the empty basket.

I don't think the Broncos really got behind this event to the extent that you believe...if Denver Broncos had really put out an important call to their loyal fan base (Bronco Nation) they would have put 50 000 in there...for them it was just an off season side show.

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20 minutes ago, Allora said:

You do realise he had a couple of Legends in front of him for a Kangaroo spot?

It wasn't a vacant position for him to slide into.

I rarely answer to these sort of replies where everyone slides in for a dig with their own  half baked opinions.

Maloney has had a fantastic career and is still at the top of his game with Penrith, I would have him over Widdop every day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maloney_(rugby_league)

Ben Hunt had the worst game of his life last Sunday, I am not a fan of his but he has had a lot to do with the Dragons success this  season.
He was rated in the Oz media a 3/10 for his performance and was the largest factor for Qld loss.
I have seen Widdop rated the same by England fans not that long ago.

His kicking game is often suspect and his team control can leave lot to be desired.

But hey , opinions are like Bums, we all have one.

Why are you calling my opinion half baked?

You stated that you wouldn't have Widdop in either of the State teams and I put forward an argument based on the fact I felt he was at least as good an option to the 4 half backs on display in Origin 2. 

I didn't insult your opinion, I simply put forward an alternative argument which is what a discussion forum is about after all. 

You say you rarely reply to these emails and yet it was merely an opinion put forward and yet you start with by dishing out insults.  Can we not act a bit better than this please.

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19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Why are you calling my opinion half baked?

You stated that you wouldn't have Widdop in either of the State teams and I put forward an argument based on the fact I felt he was at least as good an option to the 4 half backs on display in Origin 2. 

I didn't insult your opinion, I simply put forward an alternative argument which is what a discussion forum is about after all. 

You say you rarely reply to these emails and yet it was merely an opinion put forward and yet you start with by dishing out insults.  Can we not act a bit better than this please.

Some players have bad games. it doesn't make them bad players.

Hunt would be on the same or more money at the Dragons as Widdop.

Do you judge a player on one game in isolation?

You picked up on my post from a couple of days ago before origin 2

You do not have to troll back through old posts to have your shot after a game has been played  to highlight a point after my post was made.

Poor form IMO

 

 

 

 

Edited by Allora
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Talent is secondary to whether players are confident.

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18 minutes ago, Allora said:

Some players have bad games. it doesn't make them bad players.

Hunt would be on the same or more money at the Dragons as Widdop.

Do you judge a player on one game in isolation?

You picked up on my post from a couple of days ago before origin 2

You do not have to troll back through old posts to have your shot after a game has been played  to highlight a point after my post was made.

Poor form IMO

Some players have bad games. it doesn't make them bad players.

Agreed

Hunt would be on the same or more money at the Dragons as Widdop.

I cannot really see how this is relevant.

Do you judge a player on one game in isolation?

No, Widdop has been consistently better than some of this years Origin half backs for a number of years now.

You picked up on my post from a couple of days ago before origin 2

You do not have to troll back through old posts to have your shot after a game has been played  to highlight a point after my post was made.

Poor form IMO

OK, I used Origin 2 as an example of how I believe Widdop is as good as any of the SOO half backs.  This was after your post was made but surely the fact that Hunt and Munster were unable to close the game out for Queensland backs up my point that a test quality half back such as Widdop would make the team.  Maloney has been the star half back in both Origin matches to date and so my point on Maloney remains consistent.

I don't think I was being devious in my actions but if you consider it to be poor form then I apologise.

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19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Some players have bad games. it doesn't make them bad players.

Agreed

Hunt would be on the same or more money at the Dragons as Widdop.

I cannot really see how this is relevant.

Do you judge a player on one game in isolation?

No, Widdop has been consistently better than some of this years Origin half backs for a number of years now.

You picked up on my post from a couple of days ago before origin 2

You do not have to troll back through old posts to have your shot after a game has been played  to highlight a point after my post was made.

Poor form IMO

OK, I used Origin 2 as an example of how I believe Widdop is as good as any of the SOO half backs.  This was after your post was made but surely the fact that Hunt and Munster were unable to close the game out for Queensland backs up my point that a test quality half back such as Widdop would make the team.  Maloney has been the star half back in both Origin matches to date and so my point on Maloney remains consistent.

I don't think I was being devious in my actions but if you consider it to be poor form then I apologise.

All good Dunbar.
I appreciate your above post.

I have had a ###### day, I like what you post most of the time.

Allora

 

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2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Was he not in touch with his fingertips? 

I thought there was separation tbh.

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Interesting piece on the game on today’s NRL360.

To be fair, James Hooper really stuck up for it but the Kiwi flight delays - they were delayed twice - seems to have balls things up among the NRL clubs.

Hooper claims Jason Moore has signed a three-year deal with “the Denver government” (tourism etc) so it’s not dead yet, however.

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Adrian Proszenko of the SMH has become a surprising cheer leader for Denver and the US experiment.

At the bottom of one of his recent articles t did mention Jason Moore paid for him to fly out there. So whether they have built some sort of relationship previously i don't know, if not it seems a sensible thing for Moore to have done as he could be an invaluable ally going forward.

Think Proszenko has had a new positive article regarding Denver most days this week. Latest one below.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/in-for-the-long-haul-taupau-s-travel-drama-shouldn-t-ground-us-test-20180627-p4zo4r.html

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19K came to watch a rugby League test in Denver USA and they want the game back wow amazing. NRL would be doing the sport a massive disservice not to assist next year. For once I've got to give recognition to NZ Super Rugby Union sides & the English and All Black union sides. They never complain about playing at even Higher Altitude than Denver when in South Africa! Taupau travel issue was unfortunate delay due to a lighting strike but cant do to much about the weather effecting flights. Botched Anthem could be turned into a positive marketing angle to get some media attention to get it right next time around.

 

Edited by kiwis 13 6
clarify meaning of post
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